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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Players' name, image & likeness demands
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Pataskala
3/20/2021 11:16 AM
Some players are protesting over use of the their NIL. They have really valid points. As one noted, someone on a music scholarship can get royalties for writing a hit song but even a walk-on athlete who's paying his or her own way is prohibited from making a dime for signing a jersey. Even some coaches recognize that scholarship players aren't amateurs anymore. The players have come up with a list of demands:

— Full NIL rights from the NCAA by July 1.

— A meeting with NCAA president Mark Emmert.

— Meetings with President Biden’s administration and lawmakers to lobby for health, academic and financial protections.

— A ruling in favor of college athletes in Alston v. NCAA so as “to not give the NCAA any power to deny us equal freedoms.”

The first three are sound, but the last one wasn't well thought-out. You can't force a court to rule one way or another in a case. Where I once worked, we had to remind a board member that you can't lobby the Supreme Court.
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The Optimist
3/20/2021 1:34 PM
Has anyone followed the NBA Top Shot craze? It’s basically digital trading cards built on the blockchain (NFT-Non Fungible Token) and the likeness of NBA players are going for millions of dollars. There is nothing stopping college players from releasing their own for huge $, except of course the NCAA...
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bornacatfan
3/20/2021 2:48 PM
One of my boys has been dealing with art in the crypto world since 2017. He brought up the digital trading cards maybe a year back ....since then it has taken off greatly. He bought into some and got some free at the outset that he sold for some eye popping amounts. I knew he had something when we started talking about "capital gains". The govt has really strengthened their presence in the crypto world.

I can not get my head clear around the idea of owning art that is only found on the blockchain and he replies by saying "but you get that a Kobe Bryant rookie card goes for thousands of dollars? what's the difference Dad?" He is dragging me into a world I could not comprehend by unkowingly offering simple statements like that.
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giacomo
3/20/2021 3:24 PM
The value is in the eye of the beholder. I would never spend a nickel on any of this stuff, but some do. It’s a new thing and there is the attraction of getting in early and hitting it big. Some win, many eventually lose.
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Pataskala
3/24/2021 11:50 AM
I've seen only two advertisers that are using footage of players in their NCAA tourney commercials -- Great Clips and Buffalo Wild Wings. And Great Clips has one that doesn't use player footage. This seems less than in previous years.
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spongeBOB CATpants
3/24/2021 11:59 AM
At this point in 2021, does anybody actually believe that the NCAA does not exploit student-athletes?
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OU_Country
3/24/2021 2:29 PM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
At this point in 2021, does anybody actually believe that the NCAA does not exploit student-athletes?
It's to the point that it's embarrassing that they (the NCAA) haven't proactively gotten ahead of this. Anyone who watches major college sports could have seen this coming.
Last Edited: 3/24/2021 2:30:12 PM by OU_Country
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spongeBOB CATpants
3/24/2021 2:40 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
At this point in 2021, does anybody actually believe that the NCAA does not exploit student-athletes?
It's to the point that it's embarrassing that they (the NCAA) haven't proactively gotten ahead of this. Anyone who watches major college sports could have seen this coming.
I would think its on purpose. I don't think they believe they can ever lose this battle.
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OU_Country
3/24/2021 2:43 PM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
At this point in 2021, does anybody actually believe that the NCAA does not exploit student-athletes?
It's to the point that it's embarrassing that they (the NCAA) haven't proactively gotten ahead of this. Anyone who watches major college sports could have seen this coming.
I would think its on purpose. I don't think they believe they can ever lose this battle.
I think in the court of public opinion, they are poised to lose this battle soon. I'm 100% not in the "pay the players" camp given how expensive college has become. Free tuition for 4-5 years is quite a "payment" in my opinion. Conversely, I'm 100% of the opinion that they should absolutely own their own likeness and be able to sell it if they're marketable.
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OUVan
3/24/2021 4:33 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
I think in the court of public opinion, they are poised to lose this battle soon. I'm 100% not in the "pay the players" camp given how expensive college has become. Free tuition for 4-5 years is quite a "payment" in my opinion. Conversely, I'm 100% of the opinion that they should absolutely own their own likeness and be able to sell it if they're marketable.
I'm with you. I'm also hoping the other options for kids coming out of high school take off. College shouldn't be their only real option.
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spongeBOB CATpants
3/25/2021 9:57 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
At this point in 2021, does anybody actually believe that the NCAA does not exploit student-athletes?
It's to the point that it's embarrassing that they (the NCAA) haven't proactively gotten ahead of this. Anyone who watches major college sports could have seen this coming.
I would think its on purpose. I don't think they believe they can ever lose this battle.
I think in the court of public opinion, they are poised to lose this battle soon. I'm 100% not in the "pay the players" camp given how expensive college has become. Free tuition for 4-5 years is quite a "payment" in my opinion. Conversely, I'm 100% of the opinion that they should absolutely own their own likeness and be able to sell it if they're marketable.
I'd like to see all student-athletes on some sort of scholarship before moving on to paying kids or even letting kids capitalize on name/likeness.
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OU_Country
3/25/2021 10:39 AM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
I think in the court of public opinion, they are poised to lose this battle soon. I'm 100% not in the "pay the players" camp given how expensive college has become. Free tuition for 4-5 years is quite a "payment" in my opinion. Conversely, I'm 100% of the opinion that they should absolutely own their own likeness and be able to sell it if they're marketable.
I'm with you. I'm also hoping the other options for kids coming out of high school take off. College shouldn't be their only real option.
100% Agree. If a player is good enough to go right to the G-league, the NBA's rules shouldn't stand in the way if they don't want to.
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OU_Country
3/25/2021 10:42 AM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
At this point in 2021, does anybody actually believe that the NCAA does not exploit student-athletes?
It's to the point that it's embarrassing that they (the NCAA) haven't proactively gotten ahead of this. Anyone who watches major college sports could have seen this coming.
I would think its on purpose. I don't think they believe they can ever lose this battle.
I think in the court of public opinion, they are poised to lose this battle soon. I'm 100% not in the "pay the players" camp given how expensive college has become. Free tuition for 4-5 years is quite a "payment" in my opinion. Conversely, I'm 100% of the opinion that they should absolutely own their own likeness and be able to sell it if they're marketable.
I'd like to see all student-athletes on some sort of scholarship before moving on to paying kids or even letting kids capitalize on name/likeness.
I think the two are independent of each other. Kids like JP should be able to capitalize if he wants, while making the goal of getting all players on scholarship a real thing. And to reiterate, I'm not in favor of "paying players" in the way some mention it. 20-25k (and beyond in some places) a year in college expenses is a pretty substantial "payment" in my mind.
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giacomo
3/25/2021 12:54 PM
If you paid 15 kids 20k each that’s 300k. Not a problem at any P5 program, as most coaches are making 1M and above. Just take that out of the coaches salary. We don’t make money on our program, and I’ll get chastised for saying it again, but we could even do it here. If you lopped off 300k to pay our players, then the salary is in line with a dean, maybe a bit more.
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spongeBOB CATpants
3/25/2021 3:40 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
At this point in 2021, does anybody actually believe that the NCAA does not exploit student-athletes?
It's to the point that it's embarrassing that they (the NCAA) haven't proactively gotten ahead of this. Anyone who watches major college sports could have seen this coming.
I would think its on purpose. I don't think they believe they can ever lose this battle.
I think in the court of public opinion, they are poised to lose this battle soon. I'm 100% not in the "pay the players" camp given how expensive college has become. Free tuition for 4-5 years is quite a "payment" in my opinion. Conversely, I'm 100% of the opinion that they should absolutely own their own likeness and be able to sell it if they're marketable.
I'd like to see all student-athletes on some sort of scholarship before moving on to paying kids or even letting kids capitalize on name/likeness.
I think the two are independent of each other. Kids like JP should be able to capitalize if he wants, while making the goal of getting all players on scholarship a real thing. And to reiterate, I'm not in favor of "paying players" in the way some mention it. 20-25k (and beyond in some places) a year in college expenses is a pretty substantial "payment" in my mind.
I just think that all kids on a roster are deserving of a scholarship. They all put in the same amount of work, they all deserve some compensation towards a degree.
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Pataskala
3/25/2021 5:08 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
If you paid 15 kids 20k each that’s 300k. Not a problem at any P5 program, as most coaches are making 1M and above. Just take that out of the coaches salary. We don’t make money on our program, and I’ll get chastised for saying it again, but we could even do it here. If you lopped off 300k to pay our players, then the salary is in line with a dean, maybe a bit more.
Some IU booster just gave the school $10 million to buy out Archie Miller's contract, and most "P"s have somebody like that who would be willing to cover the cost of paying athletes, so they wouldn't have a need to cut into the coach's salary.
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giacomo
3/25/2021 10:27 PM
Good point. I don’t care if I had 50 billion, I wouldn’t give 10M to Archie Miller. That is just plain sick. If I were an IU grad and they asked me for a donation, I would say “ sowwy”.
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bornacatfan
3/25/2021 10:29 PM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
I just think that all kids on a roster are deserving of a scholarship. They all put in the same amount of work, they all deserve some compensation towards a degree.

Interesting. I am a little lost in the mechanics of what you are describing. All basketball and football scholarships are full pay with no half or quarter scholarships.

So instead of taking walk ons, a school puts funding and dollars for extra scholarships out there over and above what the NCAA allows? Many P5 schools and some like Akron under Dambrot carry multiple walk ons or "preferred" walk ons every year. Are you saying that the "Preferred" walk ons they offer and walk ons who come out should be paid schollys?

Lil help here if I am not understanding what you are saying.
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JSF
3/25/2021 11:16 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
Good point. I don’t care if I had 50 billion, I wouldn’t give 10M to Archie Miller. That is just plain sick. If I were an IU grad and they asked me for a donation, I would say “ sowwy”.
People with that kind of money love throwing it around like that to feel special.
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bobcat 2000
3/26/2021 8:05 AM
I can see why schools wouldn't wanna pay players. I do think that players should be allowed to work jobs in the off season and find ways to make money in season. Some players are in a situation where they have a wife and child and need much more than what their school gives them in order to provide adequately.
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spongeBOB CATpants
3/26/2021 9:49 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
I just think that all kids on a roster are deserving of a scholarship. They all put in the same amount of work, they all deserve some compensation towards a degree.

Interesting. I am a little lost in the mechanics of what you are describing. All basketball and football scholarships are full pay with no half or quarter scholarships.

So instead of taking walk ons, a school puts funding and dollars for extra scholarships out there over and above what the NCAA allows? Many P5 schools and some like Akron under Dambrot carry multiple walk ons or "preferred" walk ons every year. Are you saying that the "Preferred" walk ons they offer and walk ons who come out should be paid schollys?

Lil help here if I am not understanding what you are saying.
You got it. I believe every kid should be on some % of scholarship. Don't care if they are 1st team all-american or the last kid off the bench. No walk ons. The all-american and last kid off the bench put in the same amount of work (walk on probably puts in more time) so why shouldn't they be compensated towards their degree?

I wouldn't want to leave it up to individual schools. NCAA would have to make rule changes across the board. I just don't think a kid should have to take out student loans to pay for school when they are competing for the school athletically. Something about that just doesn't sit with me.

I'm sure its "not possible" so I'd be interested in hearing why.
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BillyTheCat
3/26/2021 12:29 PM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
I just think that all kids on a roster are deserving of a scholarship. They all put in the same amount of work, they all deserve some compensation towards a degree.

Interesting. I am a little lost in the mechanics of what you are describing. All basketball and football scholarships are full pay with no half or quarter scholarships.

So instead of taking walk ons, a school puts funding and dollars for extra scholarships out there over and above what the NCAA allows? Many P5 schools and some like Akron under Dambrot carry multiple walk ons or "preferred" walk ons every year. Are you saying that the "Preferred" walk ons they offer and walk ons who come out should be paid schollys?

Lil help here if I am not understanding what you are saying.
You got it. I believe every kid should be on some % of scholarship. Don't care if they are 1st team all-american or the last kid off the bench. No walk ons. The all-american and last kid off the bench put in the same amount of work (walk on probably puts in more time) so why shouldn't they be compensated towards their degree?

I wouldn't want to leave it up to individual schools. NCAA would have to make rule changes across the board. I just don't think a kid should have to take out student loans to pay for school when they are competing for the school athletically. Something about that just doesn't sit with me.

I'm sure its "not possible" so I'd be interested in hearing why.
So you are proposing:

120 Football Scholarships
15 Men's Basketball
15 Women's Basketball
40 Baseball Scholarships
24 Softball Scholarships
25 Soccer Scholarships
30 Women's swimming scholarships
30 XC scholarships M/W
30 Wrestling Scholarships

You are only adding about 130 extra full cost of attendance scholarships onto the books. You essentially are doing away with MAC Athletics at OHIO.
Last Edited: 3/26/2021 12:29:41 PM by BillyTheCat
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spongeBOB CATpants
3/26/2021 1:12 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I just think that all kids on a roster are deserving of a scholarship. They all put in the same amount of work, they all deserve some compensation towards a degree.

Interesting. I am a little lost in the mechanics of what you are describing. All basketball and football scholarships are full pay with no half or quarter scholarships.

So instead of taking walk ons, a school puts funding and dollars for extra scholarships out there over and above what the NCAA allows? Many P5 schools and some like Akron under Dambrot carry multiple walk ons or "preferred" walk ons every year. Are you saying that the "Preferred" walk ons they offer and walk ons who come out should be paid schollys?

Lil help here if I am not understanding what you are saying.
You got it. I believe every kid should be on some % of scholarship. Don't care if they are 1st team all-american or the last kid off the bench. No walk ons. The all-american and last kid off the bench put in the same amount of work (walk on probably puts in more time) so why shouldn't they be compensated towards their degree?

I wouldn't want to leave it up to individual schools. NCAA would have to make rule changes across the board. I just don't think a kid should have to take out student loans to pay for school when they are competing for the school athletically. Something about that just doesn't sit with me.

I'm sure its "not possible" so I'd be interested in hearing why.
So you are proposing:

120 Football Scholarships
15 Men's Basketball
15 Women's Basketball
40 Baseball Scholarships
24 Softball Scholarships
25 Soccer Scholarships
30 Women's swimming scholarships
30 XC scholarships M/W
30 Wrestling Scholarships

You are only adding about 130 extra full cost of attendance scholarships onto the books. You essentially are doing away with MAC Athletics at OHIO.
No, not all would be 100% full rides.
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longtiimelurker
3/26/2021 2:32 PM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
I just think that all kids on a roster are deserving of a scholarship. They all put in the same amount of work, they all deserve some compensation towards a degree.

Interesting. I am a little lost in the mechanics of what you are describing. All basketball and football scholarships are full pay with no half or quarter scholarships.

So instead of taking walk ons, a school puts funding and dollars for extra scholarships out there over and above what the NCAA allows? Many P5 schools and some like Akron under Dambrot carry multiple walk ons or "preferred" walk ons every year. Are you saying that the "Preferred" walk ons they offer and walk ons who come out should be paid schollys?

Lil help here if I am not understanding what you are saying.
You got it. I believe every kid should be on some % of scholarship. Don't care if they are 1st team all-american or the last kid off the bench. No walk ons. The all-american and last kid off the bench put in the same amount of work (walk on probably puts in more time) so why shouldn't they be compensated towards their degree?

I wouldn't want to leave it up to individual schools. NCAA would have to make rule changes across the board. I just don't think a kid should have to take out student loans to pay for school when they are competing for the school athletically. Something about that just doesn't sit with me.

I'm sure its "not possible" so I'd be interested in hearing why.
So you are proposing:

120 Football Scholarships
15 Men's Basketball
15 Women's Basketball
40 Baseball Scholarships
24 Softball Scholarships
25 Soccer Scholarships
30 Women's swimming scholarships
30 XC scholarships M/W
30 Wrestling Scholarships

You are only adding about 130 extra full cost of attendance scholarships onto the books. You essentially are doing away with MAC Athletics at OHIO.
No, not all would be 100% full rides.
So the haves will fund extra spots for higher talent kids that will never play, essentially stockpiling them while mid majors will just carry the 13 full rides.

You are dabbling in the area of unintended consequences while dressing it up. No matter how you cut your scenarios the Power conference schools will benefit while the mids and lows will have an ever widening gap to contend with.
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BillyTheCat
3/26/2021 4:36 PM
longtiimelurker wrote:expand_more
I just think that all kids on a roster are deserving of a scholarship. They all put in the same amount of work, they all deserve some compensation towards a degree.

Interesting. I am a little lost in the mechanics of what you are describing. All basketball and football scholarships are full pay with no half or quarter scholarships.

So instead of taking walk ons, a school puts funding and dollars for extra scholarships out there over and above what the NCAA allows? Many P5 schools and some like Akron under Dambrot carry multiple walk ons or "preferred" walk ons every year. Are you saying that the "Preferred" walk ons they offer and walk ons who come out should be paid schollys?

Lil help here if I am not understanding what you are saying.
You got it. I believe every kid should be on some % of scholarship. Don't care if they are 1st team all-american or the last kid off the bench. No walk ons. The all-american and last kid off the bench put in the same amount of work (walk on probably puts in more time) so why shouldn't they be compensated towards their degree?

I wouldn't want to leave it up to individual schools. NCAA would have to make rule changes across the board. I just don't think a kid should have to take out student loans to pay for school when they are competing for the school athletically. Something about that just doesn't sit with me.

I'm sure its "not possible" so I'd be interested in hearing why.
So you are proposing:

120 Football Scholarships
15 Men's Basketball
15 Women's Basketball
40 Baseball Scholarships
24 Softball Scholarships
25 Soccer Scholarships
30 Women's swimming scholarships
30 XC scholarships M/W
30 Wrestling Scholarships

You are only adding about 130 extra full cost of attendance scholarships onto the books. You essentially are doing away with MAC Athletics at OHIO.
No, not all would be 100% full rides.
So the haves will fund extra spots for higher talent kids that will never play, essentially stockpiling them while mid majors will just carry the 13 full rides.

You are dabbling in the area of unintended consequences while dressing it up. No matter how you cut your scenarios the Power conference schools will benefit while the mids and lows will have an ever widening gap to contend with.

Exactly!!! Look what reduces scholarship limits has done for parity. Why would anyone want to go back there.

To spongeBob, even doing equivalence scholarships would choke the life out of places like OHIO
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