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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: WKU & MTSU
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greencat
11/3/2021 10:56 AM
Any fans of women's hoops?

WKU just got a commitment from a women's hoops star over her other finalist schools: Mississippi State, Kentucky, LSU, Michigan, Iowa, North Carolina, Clemson and Georgia Tech.

Not a typo.

https://www.dnj.com/story/sports/high-school/2021/11/02/r... /
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GoCats105
11/3/2021 10:56 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Isn't there a slapfight happening right now at Toledo? And WKU was already rejected once by a president despite AD approval.
Reading the MAC boards and WKU boards, that rejection came at the hands of EMU who was holding a grudge with the MAC office over something completely unrelated. The story goes Toledo left a fake FG or punt off of their game film that they sent to EMU. Toledo then ran the play in the game and EMU filed a grievance with the league. When voting for WKU came up, they were the only member school who voted no.
Is a unanimous vote required?
I believe so, yes.
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JSF
11/3/2021 3:21 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Isn't there a slapfight happening right now at Toledo? And WKU was already rejected once by a president despite AD approval.
Reading the MAC boards and WKU boards, that rejection came at the hands of EMU who was holding a grudge with the MAC office over something completely unrelated. The story goes Toledo left a fake FG or punt off of their game film that they sent to EMU. Toledo then ran the play in the game and EMU filed a grievance with the league. When voting for WKU came up, they were the only member school who voted no.
My understanding is it was BG, not EMU.
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GoCats105
11/3/2021 3:30 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Isn't there a slapfight happening right now at Toledo? And WKU was already rejected once by a president despite AD approval.
Reading the MAC boards and WKU boards, that rejection came at the hands of EMU who was holding a grudge with the MAC office over something completely unrelated. The story goes Toledo left a fake FG or punt off of their game film that they sent to EMU. Toledo then ran the play in the game and EMU filed a grievance with the league. When voting for WKU came up, they were the only member school who voted no.
My understanding is it was BG, not EMU.
I'll take your word over theirs, but hopefully that kind of stuff still isn't play.
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The Optimist
11/3/2021 10:07 PM
Saw this posted on the MAC board from a UB fan:

https://www.ubbullrun.com/2021/11/2/22759114/what-do-wku-...

That first graphic is VERY telling. I like these adds for both football and hoops, but I really like this more for hoops. These are both very solid hoops programs. Both have tournament wins the last decade and are basically 20-win-per-year programs which'll help drag the entire conference's reputation up. Excited to see what we do with the divisions.

Additionally, they aren't two more programs in our immediate recruiting area, so I don't feel as much of a "cannibalism-effect" (not that we primarily recruit locally, anyway) That's probably a bigger factor in football.
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greencat
11/4/2021 12:03 AM
Middle's men's basketball team is ranked a puke inducing #272 by KenPom going into this season. That new coach is on the hot seat already. WKU on the other hand is ranked #90 which is good for a mid-major that is probably about to be moving to a new league.

Per Real Time RPI, Middle would be the 7th best football team in the MAC this season and WKU the 6th.

Middle was 17-8/12-4 in women's hoop last season. WKU was 7-16/6-10.

Middle was 24-29/12-19 in baseball. WKU was 27-29/15-17.
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Jeff McKinney
11/4/2021 1:02 AM
I think the doldrums that MTSU is in in men's basketball is an aberration. They will be back.
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OUVan
11/4/2021 8:36 AM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
I think the doldrums that MTSU is in in men's basketball is an aberration. They will be back.
Agreed. They are just going through their own version of Groce/Christian/Phillips.
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BillyTheCat
11/4/2021 10:26 AM
The leagues basketball coaches will welcome their salaries into the conference, as several will use them as a reason to up their own salaries.
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CatsUp
11/4/2021 10:52 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
The leagues basketball coaches will welcome their salaries into the conference, as several will use them as a reason to up their own salaries.
Hmmm. I wonder if anyone on this board will comment about that? ;)
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greencat
11/4/2021 11:45 AM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
I think the doldrums that MTSU is in in men's basketball is an aberration. They will be back.
But I don't think McDevitt(sp?) will be the coach to pull it off. He seemed like the perfect hire but obviously isn't.
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bobcatsquared
11/4/2021 11:51 AM
CatsUp wrote:expand_more
The leagues basketball coaches will welcome their salaries into the conference, as several will use them as a reason to up their own salaries.
Hmmm. I wonder if anyone on this board will comment about that? ;)
Send in the clowns.
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OhioCatFan
11/4/2021 12:30 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
The leagues basketball coaches will welcome their salaries into the conference, as several will use them as a reason to up their own salaries.
Hmmm. I wonder if anyone on this board will comment about that? ;)
Send in the clowns.
Que Sera, Sera!
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Andrew Ruck
11/4/2021 12:34 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Saw this posted on the MAC board from a UB fan:

https://www.ubbullrun.com/2021/11/2/22759114/what-do-wku-...

That first graphic is VERY telling. I like these adds for both football and hoops, but I really like this more for hoops. These are both very solid hoops programs. Both have tournament wins the last decade and are basically 20-win-per-year programs which'll help drag the entire conference's reputation up. Excited to see what we do with the divisions.

Additionally, they aren't two more programs in our immediate recruiting area, so I don't feel as much of a "cannibalism-effect" (not that we primarily recruit locally, anyway) That's probably a bigger factor in football.
Good Analysis by Bull Run there. Encouraging stuff.

One potential take that no one has at least said out loud - If this doesn't quite elevate us to being a 2 big league, all this does is make it significantly more difficult to capture that 1 MAC bid.
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GoCats105
11/4/2021 1:36 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Saw this posted on the MAC board from a UB fan:

https://www.ubbullrun.com/2021/11/2/22759114/what-do-wku-...

That first graphic is VERY telling. I like these adds for both football and hoops, but I really like this more for hoops. These are both very solid hoops programs. Both have tournament wins the last decade and are basically 20-win-per-year programs which'll help drag the entire conference's reputation up. Excited to see what we do with the divisions.

Additionally, they aren't two more programs in our immediate recruiting area, so I don't feel as much of a "cannibalism-effect" (not that we primarily recruit locally, anyway) That's probably a bigger factor in football.
Good Analysis by Bull Run there. Encouraging stuff.

One potential take that no one has at least said out loud - If this doesn't quite elevate us to being a 2 big league, all this does is make it significantly more difficult to capture that 1 MAC bid.
That's actually a major concern on the WKU and MAC boards of WKU fans. But I'm not sure what they think the better alternative is.

-Currently in a 14-team, 1-bid league
-Moving to the MAC which is the same, with maybe potential for 2
-Staying in C-USA and risk losing your automatic NCAA bid altogether because you don't have enough schools
Last Edited: 11/4/2021 1:36:51 PM by GoCats105
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The Optimist
11/4/2021 4:48 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Saw this posted on the MAC board from a UB fan:

https://www.ubbullrun.com/2021/11/2/22759114/what-do-wku-...

That first graphic is VERY telling. I like these adds for both football and hoops, but I really like this more for hoops. These are both very solid hoops programs. Both have tournament wins the last decade and are basically 20-win-per-year programs which'll help drag the entire conference's reputation up. Excited to see what we do with the divisions.

Additionally, they aren't two more programs in our immediate recruiting area, so I don't feel as much of a "cannibalism-effect" (not that we primarily recruit locally, anyway) That's probably a bigger factor in football.
Good Analysis by Bull Run there. Encouraging stuff.

One potential take that no one has at least said out loud - If this doesn't quite elevate us to being a 2 big league, all this does is make it significantly more difficult to capture that 1 MAC bid.
That's actually a major concern on the WKU and MAC boards of WKU fans. But I'm not sure what they think the better alternative is.

-Currently in a 14-team, 1-bid league
-Moving to the MAC which is the same, with maybe potential for 2
-Staying in C-USA and risk losing your automatic NCAA bid altogether because you don't have enough schools
I'm encouraged the WKU fans care enough about the basketball program to be thinking with this mindset.

We really need to make sure the bottom-dwellers are scheduling "smart" in-terms of the conference's RPI. The MAC needs to strictly enforce the scheduling standards (home games against D-1 teams) less of this nonsense with scheduling 3 D-2 (or lowers) schools at home as your "home" games. Penalize anyone who doesn't comply with $ losses from the conference pool. If we can strictly enforce this and start getting two teams in regularly the entire conference stands to see a sizable $ increase.
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GoCats105
11/4/2021 4:54 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Saw this posted on the MAC board from a UB fan:

https://www.ubbullrun.com/2021/11/2/22759114/what-do-wku-...

That first graphic is VERY telling. I like these adds for both football and hoops, but I really like this more for hoops. These are both very solid hoops programs. Both have tournament wins the last decade and are basically 20-win-per-year programs which'll help drag the entire conference's reputation up. Excited to see what we do with the divisions.

Additionally, they aren't two more programs in our immediate recruiting area, so I don't feel as much of a "cannibalism-effect" (not that we primarily recruit locally, anyway) That's probably a bigger factor in football.
Good Analysis by Bull Run there. Encouraging stuff.

One potential take that no one has at least said out loud - If this doesn't quite elevate us to being a 2 big league, all this does is make it significantly more difficult to capture that 1 MAC bid.
That's actually a major concern on the WKU and MAC boards of WKU fans. But I'm not sure what they think the better alternative is.

-Currently in a 14-team, 1-bid league
-Moving to the MAC which is the same, with maybe potential for 2
-Staying in C-USA and risk losing your automatic NCAA bid altogether because you don't have enough schools
I'm encouraged the WKU fans care enough about the basketball program to be thinking with this mindset.

We really need to make sure the bottom-dwellers are scheduling "smart" in-terms of the conference's RPI. The MAC needs to strictly enforce the scheduling standards (home games against D-1 teams) less of this nonsense with scheduling 3 D-2 (or lowers) schools at home as your "home" games. Penalize anyone who doesn't comply with $ losses from the conference pool. If we can strictly enforce this and start getting two teams in regularly the entire conference stands to see a sizable $ increase.
I actually think this move is better for the league as a whole for basketball than it is for football. WKU has a really strong basketball tradition and really cares about where they land for this. They hated the possibility of going back to the Sun Belt because they've proven not to care as much about basketball.

And you're absolutely right about scheduling.
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greencat
11/4/2021 6:06 PM
WKU plays Louisville, Ole Miss, Memphis, Minnesota is hoops this season.

In the last few years besides Louisville and Memphis; West Virginia, Alabama, Arkansas, Washington, Wisconsin, Belmont, Villanova, Purdue and other teams we have heard of were played by WKU who did win some of those games.

MTSU: played Murray State, Ole Miss, Villanova, Belmont, Virginia, Auburn, Southern Cal, Miami (Florida) and notable others the last few years.

I may have to re-add the "Stadium" app to my Roku if ESPN+ doesn't show the WKU-MTSU football game Saturday. I hear halftime will be of special interest.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
11/4/2021 8:10 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Saw this posted on the MAC board from a UB fan:

https://www.ubbullrun.com/2021/11/2/22759114/what-do-wku-...

That first graphic is VERY telling. I like these adds for both football and hoops, but I really like this more for hoops. These are both very solid hoops programs. Both have tournament wins the last decade and are basically 20-win-per-year programs which'll help drag the entire conference's reputation up. Excited to see what we do with the divisions.

Additionally, they aren't two more programs in our immediate recruiting area, so I don't feel as much of a "cannibalism-effect" (not that we primarily recruit locally, anyway) That's probably a bigger factor in football.
Good Analysis by Bull Run there. Encouraging stuff.

One potential take that no one has at least said out loud - If this doesn't quite elevate us to being a 2 big league, all this does is make it significantly more difficult to capture that 1 MAC bid.
That's actually a major concern on the WKU and MAC boards of WKU fans. But I'm not sure what they think the better alternative is.

-Currently in a 14-team, 1-bid league
-Moving to the MAC which is the same, with maybe potential for 2
-Staying in C-USA and risk losing your automatic NCAA bid altogether because you don't have enough schools
I'm encouraged the WKU fans care enough about the basketball program to be thinking with this mindset.

We really need to make sure the bottom-dwellers are scheduling "smart" in-terms of the conference's RPI. The MAC needs to strictly enforce the scheduling standards (home games against D-1 teams) less of this nonsense with scheduling 3 D-2 (or lowers) schools at home as your "home" games. Penalize anyone who doesn't comply with $ losses from the conference pool. If we can strictly enforce this and start getting two teams in regularly the entire conference stands to see a sizable $ increase.
Schedule good teams at home? That is a brand new idea!
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Gallia Cat
11/4/2021 8:29 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
Why wouldn’t Marshall come back?
Marshall can go pound sand. I have zero interest in having them rejoin the conference. They do nothing but bitch and moan and actually destabilize the conference. Also history show us if they are winning there is a pretty decent chance they are cheating. 🤣
Last Edited: 11/4/2021 8:32:07 PM by Gallia Cat
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OUVan
11/5/2021 8:44 AM
Gallia Cat wrote:expand_more
Why wouldn’t Marshall come back?
Marshall can go pound sand. I have zero interest in having them rejoin the conference. They do nothing but bitch and moan and actually destabilize the conference. Also history show us if they are winning there is a pretty decent chance they are cheating. 🤣
You didn't need the "if they are winning" qualifier.
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GoCats105
11/5/2021 11:13 AM
MAC Presidents are meeting today. Rumor that the MAC Commissioner will be at the WKU-MTSU game this weekend to make an announcement.
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Jeff McKinney
11/5/2021 2:36 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
MAC Presidents are meeting today. Rumor that the MAC Commissioner will be at the WKU-MTSU game this weekend to make an announcement.
Steinbrecher livin large in Nashville this weekend.
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GraffZ06
11/10/2021 11:22 PM
Sooooo about this....
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Andrew Ruck
11/11/2021 10:01 AM
Yeah, wow. Seems like MTSU shut it down and the MAC wasn't interested in 13 or desperately searching for a 14th. Sucks for WKU, they were the program I wanted to see.

But...In recent days I started to lean more towards "we are making our 1 bid much more difficult to obtain.." way of thinking.
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