I think we're about to get pounded by Kansas.  Can't believe we won that game tonight, because they sure didn't play like they deserved it.  Aside from Asown, everyone on this team needs to pick it up, top to bottom.  What happened to the running game?  That completely disappeared in the second half.  Also, the last 30 minutes was one of the worst defensive performances I've ever seen.  Valpo had a layup line they didn't have to work for and open looks for threes whenever they wanted them.  At least twice, a defender left a guy with the ball behind the arc.  Nobody rotated, and the man had a clear shot.  That was pathetic.  Rebounding was absolutely atrocious, capped with that unforgivable offensive rebound Keely allowed them to get off a missed free throw with about three minutes to go. No flow on offense.  Looks like what O'Shea had going sometimes.  We're just passing it around the perimeter with an occasional pass inside that never comes back out.

We saw some of these problems against Oakland.  It's not just tonight.  We very nearly lost to a team we should have beaten by 15+ (and no, Valpo is not good.  Don't even try.  Pomeroy had us winning that by 14).

DJ is clearly the focal point of every defense and he's struggling to adjust.  I have confidence he will, but he's still chucking up 2-3 poor threes a game.  Needs to stop.

Ivo and Reggie need to man up and give a crap on the defensive end.  This includes rebounding.

TJ and Rico need to learn the offense.

Groce: A lot of this is on him.  He has no idea how to handle a rotation (though admittedly, he hasn't had too much opportunity to do so).  He has to get his guys to play the way they're supposed to.  It all starts with the head coach.

Right now, we have a team that isn't playing like they have anything to prove or have any motivation to climb the ladder.

Edit: Poor writing job on my part originally.  This isn't about Kansas.

Just get better every game. So cliche, but so true when you're a MAC school.

It will just be valuable to get Keely, Baltic and Devo minutes against legitimate big men. The Oakland center gave them a taste of it. Kansas will really force them to play big or Ohio loses by 40.

No lose proposition playing the Jayhawks in my mind. Either Ohio runs with them and gains confidence or they get their ego checked and Groce can tell them with conviction how much work they need to put in to get back to the dance.

Ohio isn't ready, but I think that might be a good thing in the long run.

Please give this team some time.  We have a long way to go.  I wou;d like to see better defense/  A stronger and stingy defense will lead to a ,more rousing offense  The young guys need more time and work..  CAN'T WAIT FOR JAN.

The season started Nov. 13.  Effort can't take time.

Classic Overreactions that are typical of this board.  Probably from the same people that were ready to jump ship and cash in the football season after a loss to Toledo.  This Valpo team isn't a bad team.  They were picked third in the Horizon, behind Butler and a Detroit team with Ray Mccallum.  Not to mention they are very well coached. 

We are young and are going to have some growing pains.  Accept that and friggin relax!  Coach Groce never said this was going to be a breeze, that has been a concoction of pipe dreams from people on this board.

With regards to Bobcat Dragon's comment that Groce doesn't know how to handle a rotation...WOW!  It is November and it is a very young team, especially at the guard position.  He isn't just coaching this team for one game, he is coaching it for the long-term development...By the way he seems to know how to handle that(see Georgetown).

Friggin Relax!

Bobcat Sports--you saw what I saw. 

Valpo looked like Marietta College midway through the first half and we looked like Duke.  Total mismatch and we were about to break this baby wide open.  While I'm a huge JG fan, he was thinking the same thing, and thinking it way too early.  Instead of putting this team away, then turning the 2nd half into a scrimmage, he cleared the benches well before the knock out punch had been delivered.

Low and behold, they climbed back in it.  Valpo's body language totally changed.  The enthusiasm on their bench totally changed.  They stick around long enough to where they are the aggessors and we look lost.  And we totally had this team on the ropes midway through the first half.  They were shooting 14% and looked hopeless. I looked at those sitting next to me and said "We beat these guys by 30."  Unfortunately the OHIO coaches and players must have been thinking the same thing.

And once again being a huge JG fan,   I hate to say that if I would've seen the substitution pattern and been asked who's coaching this team I would've guessed TOS. 

Didn't know anything about Valpo going in, but I assumed they would be fiesty, well coached and disciplined.  I give them credit because they had about 2 guys that could even make our team; were on the ropes early; were on the road; and hung around a superior team long enough to where it was anyone's game down the stretch.

Didn't see it but if your criteria is the final score, explain Oakland.  And beating a lousy team by a few (not saying that was the case here) shouldn't make anyone happy if we played poorly in many respects.

I asked this in another thread but never got a definitive answer but does anybody know why Kellogg didn't play the second half?

Really? I think I'll wait until the MAC tournament before I decide if they are ready or not. Kind of reminds me of the joke about the 2 bulls on the hill

I would guess it was a combination of going big in the 2nd half and Nick making some stupid mistakes in the 1st.  He dribbled it off his foot making an easy move to his left, then picked up his dribble 70 feet from the hoop and had his lazy pass intercepted and layed back in.  His ball handling skills were shaky last night.

I think last night would have been a blowout if Tommy and DJ shoot anywhere close to their average % from the perimeter.  They each missed a lot of wide open 3's that are usually automatic.  A combined 4-15 from deep is not what we are used to seeing.  I agree with a lot of what Dragon says, but I am reserving judgement until later in the year.  Remember, OU was not that good last year until March.  That is how the Cats secured the #9 seed in the MAC tourney and a #14 in the NCAA tourney.  The team has gotten even younger and less experienced as a whole.  Freshman are just now getting used to having to work harder than they ever have.  Through high school, these players were so much more talented than their peers, they could slack at times and still shine.  Now that the opponents have similar talent each and every night, it will take time for them to buy into the fact that effort often is the difference between winning and losing.

Damnit, Wannamaker.....quit stealing my lines!

It's not even Thanksgiving and it appears that some are pushing the panic button. I'm not really sure what people were expecting in November/December.  We lose 2 scorers (Steviee Freshie and Armon), plus a big (Kellog) and some people are expecting us to jump out to a 4-0 start and blow teams out by 10-15 points every game.? On top of that, some are expecting us to give Kansas a game and possibly win?

Hey, I hope we beat Kansas and sure I'll be a little disappointed if we lose by 25 or more points. At this point, I'll be shocked if we can hang within 20 points.  However, it's November...please keep everything in perspective. This team is not as good as it was last March. However, Groce has 3 months to figure it out and he will.  Don't panic over losses that will take place in the next 30 days. It's not like this team was going to get an at-large bid to the big dance. Enjoy watching Coop and the young guys improve.....this will be a different team come March.

I think we were expecting some semblance of defensive intensity and an ability to freaking box out under the boards.  Plus an improvement in Groce's bench skills.  Kind of frightening lack of fundamentals at this point.