menu
Logo
Bobcat Attack Menu
Logo
Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Boesch not in Love's camp
Page: 2 of 2
tdcz756
General User
T756
Member Since: 1/28/2007
Location: Up North, OH
Post Count: 64
person
mail
tdcz756
mail
Posted: 1/11/2011 7:00 PM
settings_applications edit_note
Flomo-genized wrote:expand_more
I think some people read criticisms of DJ's shot selection as an indictment against DJ, when in reality (at least speaking personally) it is much more of a coaching issue than a player issue.  DJ is doing what the coach lets him do.  It is on Groce to reign Cooper in a little bit.

As for other scoring options, I will again say that I think that some of the guys on the roster would step up if we were running and properly executing the right offense.  Part of the reason that Kellogg, Hall, and Rico Johnson haven't displayed an ability to create their own shot is the fact that they haven't been put in a position where they have the freedom to do so on a regular basis.  Instead, the system has them hanging out on the perimeter as spot-up shooters most of the time. 

Alternatively, if we really only have one viable scoring option this year, then that falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff.  By year three we should not be in a position where having a 28% 3 point shooter jacking up questionable treys is your best offensive option.  If that is really the best we can do, then we really need to be asking why John Groce recruited three wings capable only of shooting spot-up jumpers in the same class...


BANG!!!
Ohio69
General User
O69
Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 3,124
person
mail
Ohio69
mail
Posted: 1/11/2011 8:01 PM
settings_applications edit_note
Lets see, in this thread we've got a radio guy spending a whole show ripping on the coach and our best player.  Andrew Ruck says we suck.  Flomo wants to change the whole offense, and once again expresses his belief game that Groce's system ain't working and his general unhappiness with Groce.  And our Indiana posters, who were very excited about Groce's arrival, now also think he's clueless mainly because they he won't run the an offense that they approve of.

Dragon thinks I'm blowing the critiicism way out of proportion.  I think maybe too many of our most passionate and dedicated fans are a little too negative too often.

If you read the posts in this topic, it takes just a few minutes.  Maybe that's how long the discussion would last over some cold beers and we'd move on to fixing a different world problem and the nature of message boards makes it play out longer and seem more serious.

Whatever it is....I just want to make it clear....All you guys are wrong and I'm right.  





Flomo-genized
General User
F
Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 574
person
mail
Flomo-genized
mail
Posted: 1/11/2011 8:19 PM
settings_applications edit_note
Just to be clear, I don't want to change the entire offense, I just want to get back to the point when it actually works well.  At its peak, Groce's offense can be a thing of beauty (see the March run last year), but when it breaks down things get ugly in a hurry.  The problem is that we've seen much more of the latter than the former the last 2.5 years.
John C. Wanamaker
General User
Member Since: 1/2/2005
Post Count: 1,103
mail
John C. Wanamaker
mail
Posted: 1/11/2011 9:17 PM
settings_applications edit_note
Flomo-genized wrote:expand_more
Just to be clear, I don't want to change the entire offense, I just want to get back to the point when it actually works well. At its peak, Groce's offense can be a thing of beauty (see the March run last year), but when it breaks down things get ugly in a hurry. The problem is that we've seen much more of the latter than the former the last 2.5 years.
Any offense works! Some of you need to understand it's the Bob's and the Joe's not the X's and O's!!! Our March run is a perfect example of this!
cc-cat
General User
C
Member Since: 4/5/2006
Location: matthews, NC
Post Count: 4,016
person
mail
cc-cat
mail
Posted: 1/11/2011 10:30 PM
settings_applications edit_note
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Lets see, in this thread we've got a radio guy spending a whole show ripping on the coach and our best player.  Andrew Ruck says we suck.  Flomo wants to change the whole offense, and once again expresses his belief game that Groce's system ain't working and his general unhappiness with Groce.  And our Indiana posters, who were very excited about Groce's arrival, now also think he's clueless mainly because they he won't run the an offense that they approve of.

Dragon thinks I'm blowing the critiicism way out of proportion.  I think maybe too many of our most passionate and dedicated fans are a little too negative too often.

If you read the posts in this topic, it takes just a few minutes.  Maybe that's how long the discussion would last over some cold beers and we'd move on to fixing a different world problem and the nature of message boards makes it play out longer and seem more serious.

Whatever it is....I just want to make it clear....All you guys are wrong and I'm right. 


And Squared is spending time he should be teaching talking about basketball.
Monroe Slavin
General User
MS
Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121
person
mail
Monroe Slavin
mail
Posted: 1/12/2011 1:12 AM
settings_applications edit_note
Wanny is correct in noting that we lack a post game and Tommy's strength is not creating his own shot, but wrong ins stating that what offense we run doesn't matter.  Flomo is correct in stating that we should have a better scheme offensively.  Those who say we lack movement are clearly correct.

I've not seen enough (well, not watched off the ball often enough) but we so often have 3 or more guys just standing around.  I realize that being in position to rebound and being back so the oppo can't fast break on us are key, but where are the off-ball screens, especially along the baseline.  Where's the near-constant motion.  The best player in the world--is easy to guard when standing still.

DJ's our best option so it's going to start there.  But he and the rest of the team will be so much better when 5 guys are involved--MOVING. SCREENING, FAKING SCREENS AND BACK-CUTTING, SCREENING AND RE-SCREENING., QUICK REVERSALS, etc.

Guys should end up bruised from having to follow Tommy through screens...leaving the screeners more openings to pop free on spot or heading to the hoop.
Flomo-genized
General User
F
Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 574
person
mail
Flomo-genized
mail
Posted: 1/12/2011 9:14 AM
settings_applications edit_note
John C. Wanamaker wrote:expand_more
Just to be clear, I don't want to change the entire offense, I just want to get back to the point when it actually works well. At its peak, Groce's offense can be a thing of beauty (see the March run last year), but when it breaks down things get ugly in a hurry. The problem is that we've seen much more of the latter than the former the last 2.5 years.


Any offense works! Some of you need to understand it's the Bob's and the Joe's not the X's and O's!!! Our March run is a perfect example of this!


Even if you think that the lack of success over the last 2 and a half regular seasons under Groce is strictly a talent issue (which I think is pretty clearly false), then I fail to understand why you think it is that the blame for that does not fall on Groce at this point.  Again, if you really believe that this is the best that can be done with the current group of talent, and that Kellogg, Hall, and Johnson are all only capable of being spot-up three point shooters (conveniently ignoring the fact that all three were much more than that throughout HS and AAU ball), then why did Groce just recruit three players featuring the exact same, limited skillset in the same class? 

Also, just for the record, how many years are you going to trot out the same talent excuse, before admitting that it is the coach's responsibility to identify and develop sufficient talent?  Because barring a spring signing miracle, we are going to be just as thin in low-post talent next year as we are this year.
bobcatsquared
General User
B
Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 5,850
person
mail
bobcatsquared
mail
Posted: 1/12/2011 9:46 AM
settings_applications edit_note
cc cat wrote:expand_more
And Squared is spending time he should be teaching talking about basketball.


I'm actually integrating Ohio basketball into my math lessons. You know - percentages, angles of DJ's 25-footers, difference between actual and announced attendance, probabilities, etc . . .

Honestly.
Last Edited: 1/12/2011 9:48:59 AM by bobcatsquared
cc-cat
General User
C
Member Since: 4/5/2006
Location: matthews, NC
Post Count: 4,016
person
mail
cc-cat
mail
Posted: 1/12/2011 10:10 AM
settings_applications edit_note
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
And Squared is spending time he should be teaching talking about basketball.


I'm actually integrating Ohio basketball into my math lessons. You know - percentages, angles of DJ's 25-footers, difference between actual and announced attendance, probabilities, etc . . .

Honestly.


You mean such as:  The Crazy Train is holding a 16 gallon and 8 gallon keg for the basketball party.  By the time they get to the game, 3 gallons are gone.  How much did the Train drink?  And for extra credit, how much did VR drink?

Jeff McKinney
Moderator
JM
Member Since: 11/12/2004
Post Count: 6,163
person
mail
Jeff McKinney
mail
Posted: 1/12/2011 12:16 PM
settings_applications edit_note
The Newark school system MUST take a VERY hands off approach to supervising development of lesson plans and curricula...
OUVan
General User
Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 5,580
mail
OUVan
mail
Posted: 1/12/2011 4:00 PM
settings_applications edit_note
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
       If you're a fly on the wall in my house or in my classroom where I teach, you would realize that I'm the biggest Cooper supporter around. He's my 11-year-old daughter and 4-year-old son's favorite basketball player. I'm always trying to convince hoops fans in Newark, 99.9% of whom are an o$u fans and know next to nothing about Bobcat basketball, to check out an Ohio game on TV and keep an eye on #5, perhaps the best player in the country under six feet. And yet, I believe Ohio is better served without some of his 25 footers early in the shot clock. And I think the stats back that up.


I think this is a perfect take. The problem is that we haven't had anybody step up to give DJ a viable option much of the time.  The only other consistent threat we have is Tommy and he sometimes is too patient.  Our big men can't hit a layup to save their collective lives and our young scorers haven't figured out their roles yet. Either they are too aggressive or not aggressive enough.  Until we give the other team somebody they have to focus on consistently besides DJ and Tommy we are going to have stretches where we struggle on offense.  The offense has created lots of scoring opportunities but we aren't hitting shots. After a while I'm sure DJ gets frustrated.
Andrew Ruck
General User
Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 5,647
mail
Andrew Ruck
mail
Posted: 1/12/2011 9:57 PM
settings_applications edit_note
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
I just want to make it clear....All you guys are wrong and I'm right.  


Based on the way our offense looked at Akron tonight and the much much better results it produced against a tougher team on the road...I'd say score one against you.
Ohio69
General User
O69
Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 3,124
person
mail
Ohio69
mail
Posted: 1/12/2011 10:51 PM
settings_applications edit_note
Totally different games and situations if you ask me.  Coop gets a free pass on the Miami game from me.  

And, he comes back and fills up the stat sheet -- just 2 rebounds short of a triple double.  He was 1-5 from 3 and I don't care.

Anyway, at least we can agree that tonight was way fun.  That's a darn good MAC road win.



Andrew Ruck
General User
Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 5,647
mail
Andrew Ruck
mail
Posted: 1/12/2011 10:59 PM
settings_applications edit_note
Bottom line, we optimized attempts from our high percentage shooters tonight and it paid off.  DJ with 10 shots tonight in a very impressive victory versus 22 against Miami and an unimpressive loss.  Yeah, I am oversimplifying things...But it's still worth pointing out.
Showing Messages: 26 - 39 of 39
reply
vertical_align_top
vertical_align_center
vertical_align_bottom
add_comment
chevron_backward
MAC News Links



extra small (< 576px)
small (>= 576px)
medium (>= 768px)
large (>= 992px)
x-large (>= 1200px)
xx-large (>= 1400px)