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Topic: Freeman eclipsing Jamerson on threes - Amazing!
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PutnamField
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Posted: 2/22/2011 10:36 PM
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I really never thought a player who didn't score about twenty a game would score more threes than Dave Jamerson.

Mychal Green, Jeff Halbert, Gus Johnson, Rick Scarberry, Bubba Walther, Steve Esterkamp and even Snoopy Graham also come to mind as prolific outside shooters for the Green and White. 

It doesn't seem like Tommy gets as many of his jump shots off of picks and screens compared with Scarberry, Green, et al. I know he's not a Sonny Troutman take you off the dribble guy and maybe I'm wrong but it seems like he needs to get open and get the shot off on his own more than the other great three-point shooters who've played for Ohio.

The BGSU game is money. You can't miss this game.
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 2/22/2011 11:08 PM
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Not taking anything away from Mr. Freeman, but Jamerson, I believe, played his first season at Ohio (1985-86) without the three-point shot in the rulebook. It was instituted nationally in 1986. Jamerson missed the first season of the three-pointer with a knee injury if I recall correctly.
crackerbaby00
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Posted: 2/22/2011 11:14 PM
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You gotta remember that Freeman didn't play that much as a freshman.  In fact, he only made 13 3's his first year at Ohio.  I would guess that he end his career with more than 13 more made 3's than Jamerson.
PutnamField
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Posted: 2/22/2011 11:20 PM
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Mike Coleman wrote:expand_more
Not taking anything away from Mr. Freeman, but Jamerson, I believe, played his first season at Ohio (1985-86) without the three-point shot in the rulebook. It was instituted nationally in 1986. Jamerson missed the first season of the three-pointer with a knee injury if I recall correctly.


That would explain why it seemed like it was raining when the man from Stow was in the game as a junior and senior.
FearLeon
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Posted: 2/23/2011 1:12 AM
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crackerbaby00 wrote:expand_more
You gotta remember that Freeman didn't play that much as a freshman.  In fact, he only made 13 3's his first year at Ohio.  I would guess that he end his career with more than 13 more made 3's than Jamerson.


Another brilliant coaching decision by TOS.
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 2/23/2011 3:45 AM
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crackerbaby00 wrote:expand_more
You gotta remember that Freeman didn't play that much as a freshman.  In fact, he only made 13 3's his first year at Ohio.  I would guess that he end his career with more than 13 more made 3's than Jamerson.


There's really no way of knowing how many three's Jamerson would have had if he played four seasons with the three-point rule or if he would have played in a system that adapted to the rule, as some colleges took years to design offenses to take advantage of the new line. On the other hand, Jamerson played three full seasons with a three-point line (19'9")  that was a bit shorter toss than what Freeman now throws them up from. Just something that's worth noting. I'm not trying to take away from  either gentleman's remarkable accomplishments.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 2/23/2011 8:48 AM
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I think Tommy has been under-utlized his entire career.  Obviously the year with Oshea and getting just 13 three balls...But there have been stretches where he seemed to almost fall out of the rotation inexplicably, including this year.  He will never average more than 29 minutes per game in any year of his career.  For a player that is never in foul trouble, always hustling, almost always healthy, and effective on both ends of the court and virtually any game situation, I just don't get that.  In the end, all I'm griping about is 3-4 more minutes under Groce, so it's not a big deal, but I've found myself wondering why Tommy is still on the bench several times the past few years. 
SBH
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Posted: 2/23/2011 8:50 AM
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Yes, Jamerson sat out his entire sophomore season, I believe, with a knee injury sustained during a summer tour in Europe. I think he only played two years under the three-point rule.

I will never forget his performance at Kent in his junior year. 52 points in only 30 minutes or so of action. He could not miss. It got to the point where he was crossing the half-court line, taking three steps and firing it up. The Kent fans were going nuts. (He was from nearby Stow.)






giacomo
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Posted: 2/23/2011 9:18 AM
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I think Scarberry played before the three point rule came in. I remember that he was a good shooter, but he never scored much. Does anyone know what he averaged?

My take on why Freeman doesn't play the whole game is his quickness, or lack there of. He's a great shooter when left alone and is fundametntally sound. However, depending on the defense we face or the match up, coach needs a quicker player in there.
OUVan
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Posted: 2/23/2011 9:28 AM
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Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
I think Tommy has been under-utlized his entire career.  Obviously the year with Oshea and getting just 13 three balls...But there have been stretches where he seemed to almost fall out of the rotation inexplicably, including this year.  He will never average more than 29 minutes per game in any year of his career.  For a player that is never in foul trouble, always hustling, almost always healthy, and effective on both ends of the court and virtually any game situation, I just don't get that.  In the end, all I'm griping about is 3-4 more minutes under Groce, so it's not a big deal, but I've found myself wondering why Tommy is still on the bench several times the past few years. 


I've wondered the same thing as well.  Last year was particularly maddening. In December and early January Tommy's minutes were way down.  The really frustrating part of it was that that was when we had injury and suspension issues.  I think we were something like 12-4 when Tommy played 30 minutes or more last year.  This year I think his average minutes aren't where they should be because of his injuries earlier in the year. In MAC play he's only been under 30 minutes four times. Of course, we were are 1-3 in those games.  He's had 30+ minutes in 7 straight games though.  I still wonder if some of the lack of minutes has to do with the fact that he wasn't a Groce recruit.
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Posted: 2/23/2011 9:38 AM
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A couple other factors to consider: first, Jamerson played in fewer games during his last three seasons than Tommy has.  Whereas we played 87 games in Jamerson's last three years, we will have played at least 101 games during Tommy's last three years, and perhaps more if we make a run in March.  Second, Jamerson was also much more the focal point of the offense back then, which both helped him (more looks) and hurt him (the defense was focused on him much of the time). 

All that having been said, given that Tommy is going to break the record with significantly fewer attempts than Jamerson, he certainly can be considered the best 3 point shooter in school history.  In my mind they are 1 and 1A.
OUVan
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Posted: 2/23/2011 9:38 AM
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giacomo wrote:expand_more
I think Scarberry played before the three point rule came in. I remember that he was a good shooter, but he never scored much. Does anyone know what he averaged?

My take on why Freeman doesn't play the whole game is his quickness, or lack there of. He's a great shooter when left alone and is fundametntally sound. However, depending on the defense we face or the match up, coach needs a quicker player in there.


I think he makes up for his lack of quickness with his good fundemental positioning.  Plus he's so much better on help and weak side defense than most of our other players.  The other options we have at his position may be quicker but they aren't better defenders IMO except for Sayles but we lose so much on the offensive end that we are still better off with Tommy in the game.
OUVan
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Posted: 2/23/2011 9:46 AM
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Flomo-genized wrote:expand_more
A couple other factors to consider: first, Jamerson played in fewer games during his last three seasons than Tommy has.  Whereas we played 87 games in Jamerson's last three years, we will have played at least 101 games during Tommy's last three years, and perhaps more if we make a run in March.  Second, Jamerson was also much more the focal point of the offense back then, which both helped him (more looks) and hurt him (the defense was focused on him much of the time). 

All that having been said, given that Tommy is going to break the record with significantly fewer attempts than Jamerson, he certainly can be considered the best 3 point shooter in school history.  In my mind they are 1 and 1A.


Jamerson had a much better and more rounded offensive game than Tommy.  Tommy is a great spot shooter but he hasn't really developed his offensive game (other than passing which he does very well) outside of his 3-pt shooting.  Jamerson was a threat everywhere.  Just over a third of Jamerson's FG attempts were 3-pters while about 80% of Tommy's shots are from 3.  
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Posted: 2/23/2011 10:07 AM
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I agree.  And Jamerson could really elevate and get off a shot very quickly over fairly tall defenders. He really didn't lose any of that after his knee injury, which involved pretty serious surgery.




giacomo
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Posted: 2/23/2011 10:23 AM
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You can't  really compare the two players. Tommy's a nice player, but Jamerson is our all time leading scorer and was a first round draft pick.
Casper71
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Posted: 2/23/2011 11:14 AM
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Both of these guys are tremendous shooters.  I do remember watching Jamerson in warm ups before one game his senior year and he buried shot after shot from almost mid court.  I have never seen a shooter at OHIO with the kind of range he had.  I also think he was able to get his shot off quicker than TF.

All that aside, congrats are in order for TF for breaking the record.  After all, that is what records are for!
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Posted: 2/23/2011 12:25 PM
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Congrats to Tommy on his impending three point record!

A minority view:  I don't think Tommy lacks quickness.  I've noticed that ever since he was a HS senior.  I think he has adequate Div. I quickness.   

One factor that has limited his playing time in certain games is when Tommy has been forced to match up defensively with big thick guys like Singletary and Akron's Jimmy Conyers. 
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Posted: 2/23/2011 12:50 PM
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giacomo wrote:expand_more
You can't  really compare the two players.


Do you enjoy anything?
FearLeon
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Posted: 2/23/2011 1:15 PM
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Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
I think Tommy has been under-utlized his entire career.  Obviously the year with Oshea and getting just 13 three balls...But there have been stretches where he seemed to almost fall out of the rotation inexplicably, including this year.  He will never average more than 29 minutes per game in any year of his career.  For a player that is never in foul trouble, always hustling, almost always healthy, and effective on both ends of the court and virtually any game situation, I just don't get that.  In the end, all I'm griping about is 3-4 more minutes under Groce, so it's not a big deal, but I've found myself wondering why Tommy is still on the bench several times the past few years. 


Groce will never fully appreciate what he had in Freeman until he's gone.
HeHateMiami
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Posted: 2/23/2011 1:45 PM
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PutnamField wrote:expand_more
I really never thought a player who didn't score about twenty a game would score more threes than Dave Jamerson.

Mychal Green, Jeff Halbert, Gus Johnson, Rick Scarberry, Bubba Walther, Steve Esterkamp and even Snoopy Graham also come to mind as prolific outside shooters for the Green and White. 

It doesn't seem like Tommy gets as many of his jump shots off of picks and screens compared with Scarberry, Green, et al.


Remember, Mychal Green came to OU as a JUCO and only played 2 seasons for the Green and White. If he'd been here for a full 4, who knows where he'd stand in the career-record books.
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Posted: 2/23/2011 3:01 PM
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Tommy will finish with more threes, a higher 3-p fg percentage and has done so from a slightly longer distance.  By all accounts he will be honored as the greatest 3-point shooter to wear green.  Jamerson is a better scorer, but then if he had played for O'shea who knows if he would have seen the floor freshman year.   Jamerson missed the 3-p freshman year, but Tommy was hampered by coaching decisions. 
Last Edited: 2/23/2011 3:02:24 PM by cc-cat
BobcatGman
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Posted: 2/23/2011 4:23 PM
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        Jamerson came to Ohio in the 85-86 season there was NO 3 point line.  Dave played 28 games and scored 392 points for a 14.0 ppg as a Freshman

       Jamerson took a Medcal RedShirt during the 86-87 season.

        Jamerson from 1987 to 1990 with the 3 point line in place,  went 239 for 570 for 41.9% over those 3 seasons. So Dave Jamerson played 3 years with the 3 point line in  play.

87-88    49 for 122    40.2%
88-89    59 for 145    40.7%
89-90   131 for 303   43.2%

       Could of, would of, should of, Jamerson was a great player, but tonite it's Tommy Freeman's Night !  He's earned it.

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Dennis "Gman"  "DON'T FLINCH or YOU MIGHT MISS TOMMYS 240th 3" 
Doc Bobcat
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Posted: 2/23/2011 10:35 PM
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BobcatGman wrote:expand_more
        Jamerson came to Ohio in the 85-86 season there was NO 3 point line.  Dave played 28 games and scored 392 points for a 14.0 ppg as a Freshman

       Jamerson took a Medcal RedShirt during the 86-87 season.

        Jamerson from 1987 to 1990 with the 3 point line in place,  went 239 for 570 for 41.9% over those 3 seasons. So Dave Jamerson played 3 years with the 3 point line in  play.

87-88    49 for 122    40.2%
88-89    59 for 145    40.7%
89-90   131 for 303   43.2%

       Could of, would of, should of, Jamerson was a great player, but tonite it's Tommy Freeman's Night !  He's earned it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Dennis "Gman"  "DON'T FLINCH or YOU MIGHT MISS TOMMYS 240th 3" 


Hell yeah.
anorris
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Posted: 2/23/2011 11:20 PM
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Doc Bobcat wrote:expand_more
        Jamerson came to Ohio in the 85-86 season there was NO 3 point line.  Dave played 28 games and scored 392 points for a 14.0 ppg as a Freshman

       Jamerson took a Medcal RedShirt during the 86-87 season.

        Jamerson from 1987 to 1990 with the 3 point line in place,  went 239 for 570 for 41.9% over those 3 seasons. So Dave Jamerson played 3 years with the 3 point line in  play.

87-88    49 for 122    40.2%
88-89    59 for 145    40.7%
89-90   131 for 303   43.2%

       Could of, would of, should of, Jamerson was a great player, but tonite it's Tommy Freeman's Night !  He's earned it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Dennis "Gman"  "DON'T FLINCH or YOU MIGHT MISS TOMMYS 240th 3" 


Hell yeah.

At 244 of 540, Tommy's career 3 point shooting percentage is 45.2%.  That's pretty darn impressive.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 2/24/2011 3:19 AM
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Yeah, seeing the players we've had and we have now, it's difficult to believe that Tommy would not be a stalwart ('on the floor'  to those of you who lack your M.O.) at all times.

I espec remember when we played Kansas at, I think, Kansas during Tommy's freshmen year.  We got clobbered but Tommy knocked down one or two threes like playing Kansas was just another game.  borna agrees re Tommy being used to big game situations.
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