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Topic: Groce is on the right track
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tiptondevilcat
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Posted: 3/13/2011 8:54 PM
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And yet I sit here watching the CBS pre selection show and listen to Belien say the change in his team started with a conversation with his team about "shot selection, one extra pass and sharing the ball". Once that happened he said they just kind of took off. But I am sure those here supporting going on with status quo is going to be a better situation than teaching a team to execute and make better decisions.  If you as a fan of DJ can only see through colored glasses then you are missing what a great player this kid can actually be with a bit of coaching. I am also a fan but I would really like to see him honing his vision and passing skills as well as getting shots up. Our scoring leaders in Indiana High School ball over the last 60 years of basketball are exciting to watch but are rarely on teams that win and advance. George Hill from Broad Ripple and Eric Gordon at North Central are 2 recent examples that are already in the NBA but neither won much in High School or College.

Multiple coaches have talked about that concept of shot selection and ball movement with skip or one more pass and unselfish play on various shows this year. College basketball is all about creating mismatches and getting the shot you want. Playing the percentages, you can do that by recruiting certain players but Tenn. is always going to have longer, faster more complete players than Ohio can attract so you have to create team oriented players who buy into team success over individual glory. If you think that locker room at Ohio is hunky dory then you are not looking at the huddles and the bench as guys are chatting. I bet there are guys who would love to have something to say but if the Coach is not reigning a kid in and saying "we got a good look" why would any kid on that team ever think of speaking up even if they know exactly what is going on.

How would you know what Jacobs is capable of? I strongly feel that he and Zeke are both not getting the attention they need to progress after watching the MAC tourney with very critical eyes. Comparing to other big men in their class and the class in front of them it is easy to pick out who is getting coached and who is not. Granted Big men always take longer but Ethan is a hard worker with straight A classroom background which I would suspect may make him a slightly faster learner than Zeke from a couple of standpoints. Mentally you cannot teach intelligence and with regard to Zeke's mom and what she tells him if I read the Akron board correctly. There are parents out there who impede the progress of their young man by what they tell him. Coaching Ethan has no such barrier.

I have watched Ethan play with a couple of AAU clubs and for his High School. He was coached by a man who has showcased his son for 4 years and ran a 4 guard offense that employed Derrick Elston in the middle till he graduated and then left Ethan standing in the middle to rebound and throw the ball back out to the guards. Ethan is quick and had nice hands and a great looking shot from range well past what I have seen from your current big men though he is admittedly not as athletic as Baltic or Washington. Ironic to me that our Blue Devils got farther last night in the State tourney than we ever have advancing to the Semi State next weekend following 5 years where we had a 6'8 Big 10 player and a 7 footer in the middle. Was very nice to watch those nets coming down but surely strange considering the personnel we brought to the table the last 5 years Deshawn Thomas and Bishop Luers notwithstanding.

To be honest if the rest of the fan base is as brutal as WHRH and this is what he is in store for ranging from the coaching he is getting and the project comments heaped upon him I would advise him to maybe look elsewhere to further his career. One can only hope that the staff still has his back and is working to get him ready and the fans are somewhat less critical and visionary as WHRH. There have been doubters in his world for many years. If you are typical of Ohio fans then you really do not deserve these kids that Groce is recruiting. Wretched and brutal.
On the other point you made, I was over in that other thread looking at those names of players and recalling the games I watched them play over the years. Interesting that on the Ball State board they were talking about Freeman just standing around waiting for the ball. That got me thinking and I went back to the videos of last year’s team. They ran a lot more plays with Bassett and Freeman, I don’t know about Coleman as I have no video footage. All those other players on that 3 point list in the other thread regarding career stats had those players running off multiple screens and creating an offense that was complex and had multiple scoring opportunities. I have seen Freeman come off screens against BSU last year and many times this year MOSTLY only on out of bounds plays which were actually pretty successful. He never seems to miss in those opportunities nor does Kellogg. Perhaps Nick Kellogg, TJ Hall, RIc , Offutt  and those shooters on the recruiting board will get the benefit of a more complex offense and use of screens in the years to come. Right now the offense really consists of a pass to the wing and the resultant pass back to the big at the top after one dribble. With no attempt to turn a corner or use the screen to run a classic pick and roll. Except for Ricardo free lancing and getting 16 footer off the initial screen a few times I do not really even remember any variations from any of the players so how would you know if any of these guys can create a shot? Surely this is what everyone was complaining about in the beginning of the year when all of those wings were all in a 3 point shootout. Nick looked good in the footage I have getting his shot off once a proper screen was set.

For those reading this who may not be familiar with what I am talking about think JJ Redick or Stephan Curry and the many screens, skip passes and ball movement  they  got to get loose or wide open looks. For those who are in possession of a recording of the recently lost BSU game watch their initial set and how hard Kellogg had to work to defend Robinson as he worked through multiple screens each possession. He got nice separation and the bigs for Ball State demonstrated their ability to set and use picks.

All in all, I still find your approach to your own home team somewhat distasteful. I only have to listen to you 3 or 4 more years and actually I really don't need to at all but it is a disservice to fans who want to know or be informed not to refute or debate. It would indeed be easier to look and laugh as I read your posts. You are not so much trying to share and impart knowledge as much as you are trying to be overly critical or pat yourself on the back for stating what is obvious to most with any background in the game. Sorry for saying you are full of crap but as Alan Swank seems to enjoy not having to read long posts it was just much easier than writing all of this out in detail.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:30 PM
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good gravy Kaczynski, you plan on getting this manifesto published?

let me see if I can sumarize- you think Jacobs is the best thing to come out of Indiana since John Mellencamp and you're angry that all the love and attention from the coaches and from fans on this board goes to Cooper instead of your boy.
 
This is about the third thread I've seen you criticize in detail the passing abilities of a player that finished the season 2nd in the nation in assists and broke the school's single season assist record that he set last year as a freshman. Sure he has areas of improvement, we all do, but going after Coop like he's the problem with this team is odd, and frankly it feels personal. And spare us all the hoosier state high school name dropping, no one cares.

My 2 cents on Ethan is that I love his enthusiasm, everytime I see a shot of him on the video feed he's cheering his teammates on, giving hi 5s to players at time outs, and listens intently during huddles. He reminds alot of another big that didn't play much his freshman year but showed a similar positive attitude and work ethic- Ivo Baltic. I hope he can make the same leap year to year that Ivo did too, we'll need him.





 
tiptondevilcat
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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:55 PM
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Reading must be a problem.

I think Ethan needs a LOT of work. What do you not understand? He is not a project like many big men who are still growing into their body are and he has a great mind with athletic ability . He IS a latecomer to the game of basketball. Good gosh, is reading for understanding part of the Ohio curriculum? Did you not see that I said I love Cooper I just know could be so much more with just a little tweaking and Ohio would not be struggling with an 18-14 record that  seems to dissatisfy most of you posters. So I don't offend I will not mention the multitude of Indianapolis area point guards that we have to compare to and yet I think he is as talented or better than almost all of them. Why do you attempt to misrepresent my words or intentions?

I am not related to the Jacobs boy but I do follow most of our area athletes on several boards from Indiana to Gardner Webb and Tulane where our area kids are playing. Don't denigrate my post by assuming that I have anything but a real love of basketball and an affinity to see our local boys do well. You really can choose to pass up what you want to read on any board without so much as a comment.
Last Edited: 3/13/2011 10:05:57 PM by tiptondevilcat
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 3/13/2011 10:18 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
- 1


What is your minus one in reference to Steveland?  My was on Monroe's comments to another poster.


C'mon Alan, use your Muskingum eduaction. Your + 1 indicated that you are in agreement with Monroe. Right? The opposite of + 1 is - 1. Maybe OCF can explain this to you when you pay him your lost wager.
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 3/13/2011 10:19 PM
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tiptondevilcat wrote:expand_more
Reading must be a problem.

I think Ethan needs a LOT of work. What do you not understand? He is not a project like many big men who are still growing into their body are and he has a great mind with athletic ability . He IS a latecomer to the game of basketball. Good gosh, is reading for understanding part of the Ohio curriculum? Did you not see that I said I love Cooper I just know could be so much more with just a little tweaking and Ohio would not be struggling with an 18-14 record that  seems to dissatisfy most of you posters. So I don't offend I will not mention the multitude of Indianapolis area point guards that we have to compare to and yet I think he is as talented or better than almost all of them. Why do you attempt to misrepresent my words or intentions?

I am not related to the Jacobs boy but I do follow most of our area athletes on several boards from Indiana to Gardner Webb and Tulane where our area kids are playing. Don't denigrate my post by assuming that I have anything but a real love of basketball and an affinity to see our local boys do well. You really can choose to pass up what you want to read on any board without so much as a comment.


I always thought I had the "Most Passive-Aggressive Poster Lifetime Achievement Award" locked up, but TiptonDevilcat is making a strong charge to swipe it out of my hands as I near the podium.
SBH
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Posted: 3/13/2011 11:19 PM
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I for one agree with several of our Indiana poster's thoughts. I believe we wasted a year with Ethan. He certainly could have contributed as much as Keely. What little I saw of him was fairly promising. And I agree that Groce needs to grow a pair when it comes to reeling in his point guard and teaching TJ Hall to rely on his athleticism rather than his imaginary three-point shooting prowess. But our coach is too busy throwing fits at the officials and sticking out his lower lip like an unhappy toddler to pay attention to the finer points of the game. He might grow into this job with the help of a little humility, but perhaps not.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 3/13/2011 11:35 PM
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tiptondevilcat wrote:expand_more

How would you know what Jacobs is capable of? I strongly feel that he and Zeke are both not getting the attention they need to progress after watching the MAC tourney with very critical eyes. Comparing to other big men in their class and the class in front of them it is easy to pick out who is getting coached and who is not. Granted Big men always take longer but Ethan is a hard worker with straight A classroom background which I would suspect may make him a slightly faster learner than Zeke from a couple of standpoints.

...players running off multiple screens and creating an offense that was complex and had multiple scoring opportunities..... Right now the offense really consists of a pass to the wing and the resultant pass back to the big at the top after one dribble. With no attempt to turn a corner or use the screen to run a classic pick and roll.

(T)hink JJ Redick or Stephan Curry and the many screens, skip passes and ball movement  they  got to get loose or wide open looks. ... the recently lost BSU game watch their initial set and how hard Kellogg had to work to defend Robinson as he worked through multiple screens each possession.

All in all, I still find your approach to your own home team somewhat distasteful. ... You are not so much trying to share and impart knowledge as much as you are trying to be overly critical or pat yourself on the back for stating what is obvious to most with any background in the game. Sorry for saying you are full of crap but as Alan Swank seems to enjoy not having to read long posts it was just much easier than writing all of this out in detail.


Astute post, tipton.  Pretty funny remark about A Swank, too.
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