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Topic: Arizona over on scholarships
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sargentfan
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Posted: 4/27/2011 5:44 PM
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Looks like Kyryl Natyazhko made a really bad call following Miller to Arizona, in Yahoo's BBall blog they mention that Arizona has one scholarship player too many, currently Kyryl and another player graduating this Spring are the top two candidates to move on. 
PalmerFest
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Posted: 4/28/2011 10:10 AM
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I wouldn't go so far as to say that he made a bad call going to Az.  However, I would welcome him back to Athens with open arms. 
bornacatfan
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Posted: 4/28/2011 10:11 AM
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Moving on.....

certain programs just have that yearly moving on thing going......X is one of them.

Worst thing in those programs is to be the last one to sign....as you are the first to be recruited over.

Kyryl IMHO made a big mistake. Could have been a player in the MAC. Imagine poor Zeke going up against a skilled big man. All the thunder would have gone away when he ran back down the court cussing and beating himself inthe forehead. Kyryl w/sh/could have brought the pain.

bornacatfan
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Posted: 4/28/2011 11:01 AM
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Blog info

With the likely transfer of guard Daniel Bejarano this week from the Arizona basketball program, coach Sean Miller needs to address only one more scholarship spot.

The Wildcats currently have 13 scholarship spots filled if all four of their Class of 2011 recruits attend the UA starting this summer. Those recruits are point guard Josiah Turner, guard-wing Nick Johnson, power forward Sidiki Johnson and post player Angelo Chol.
Because of the UA’s self-imposed penalty in 2011-12, following alleged improprieties involved with the elite youth basketball tournament Cactus Classic toward the end of the Lute Olson era, Miller has only 12 scholarship spots next year, instead of the customary 13.

Bejarano’s likely transfer, Derrick Williams‘ decision to leave for the NBA after his sophomore season, and Jamelle Horne exhausting his eligibility means these nine current players are under scholarship (classification is for the 2011-12 season):

Guards (4): Kyle Fogg, Sr.; Lamont “MoMo” Jones, Jr.; Brendon Lavender, Sr.; and Jordin Mayes, Soph.

Forwards (3): Solomon Hill, Jr.; Kevin Parrom, Jr.; and Jesse Perry, Sr.

Centers (2): Alex Jacobson, Sr., and Kyryl Natyazhko, Jr.

To allow room for Turner, Nick Johnson, Sidiki Johnson and Chol, one of these nine scholarship spots must be relinquished.

The prevailing thought is Jacobson, who will be a fifth-year player after redshirting his freshman season, will either transfer and be eligible immediately at a lower-classified university, or he will complete his degree requirements without the scholarship since he is almost finished.

The other possibility is Natyazhko playing professionally in Europe, perhaps in his home country of Ukraine.

Or an unforeseen transfer will occur from the other seven current scholarship players.

If Miller must address the remaining scholarship overload with a senior, such as Jacobson or Lavender, it becomes a sensitive topic. For one, those guys have spent a lot of time in the classroom and in practice at Arizona. Another, the whole premise that players should stay at an institution for four years becomes obsolete if a coach decides that the program would be better served without a senior who has paid his dues.

Arguments for Miller in this situation — if it comes about — is that he did not recruit either Jacobson or Lavender and he gets paid handsomely to make Arizona a competitive program, and he would normally have 13 scholarship spots but matters out of his control precluded him from having that number.



Of course the local board members have opines all over the universe.

-Dayton appears to have 4 guards coming back next year, only two of which would be around the following year when Beja could play. One of them was a RS Soph this year (Kevin Dillard, another transfer) who looks like he might be able to play. From the stats, they didn't have a point guard who knew how to play basketball. Every single one of them had about 2 turnovers for each assist, and the best guard scorer averaged 8.4 points.
On the other hand, the best assists man was Juwan Staten who I find in the stats, but not the roster. Perhaps he was the PG. (ahhh, I see, he is transferring out - big hole at point!). 3rd leading scorer but couldn't hit a three (actually they had a distinct lack of success from outside from anybody - Staten was 4/26).DB can shoot threes no problem, I understand. Its his defense that is suspect. Does he fit a hole that Archie needs? Maybe he does, and I suspect that Archie knows better than anyone in the country what DB needs to improve on.

I approve of the Dayton idea....But my guy is still insisting that he's going to NAU.

Originally Posted by RichardCranium View Post
Dayton appears to have 4 guards coming back next year, only two of which would be around the following year when Beja could play. One of them was a RS Soph this year (Kevin Dillard, another transfer) who looks like he might be able to play.

From the stats, they didn't have a point guard who knew how to play basketball. Every single one of them had about 2 turnovers for each assist, and the best guard scorer averaged 8.4 points.

On the other hand, the best assists man was Juwan Staten who I find in the stats, but not the roster. Perhaps he was the PG. (ahhh, I see, he is transferring out - big hole at point!). 3rd leading scorer but couldn't hit a three (actually they had a distinct lack of success from outside from anybody - Staten was 4/26).

DB can shoot threes no problem, I understand. Its his defense that is suspect. Does he fit a hoe that Archie needs? Maybe he does, and I suspect that Archie knows better than anyone in the country what DB needs to improve on.

I approve of the Dayton idea.

But my guy is still insisting that he's going to NAU.
-Staten is transferring to Penn State. Apparently he has big time character issues.I  think Beja should go to a MWC or WCC school. I think he could be a really good player in a conference better than the Big Sky. He would be selling himself short by going to NAU.

-I think either NAU or Grand Canyon would make sense. Couldn't he play right away if he went to Grand Canyon since it is not a Division 1 team? He might be the MVP of whatever conference they play in and would be a big recruiting coup for Russ Pennell

-Yup it sucks but what do you want Arizona, SM, or us posters to do about it. In this business you have to either be a nice guy or you have to do what it takes to win. Sean Miller is getting paid a lot of money to win. Fans don't show up, you don't make tourney runs, national exposure, etc. from being a really nice guy. All that happens by winning. I feel really bad about it but this is simply a case that there is no other choice.

-There's a small possibility Josiah won't even qualify and Chol hasn't even signed an LOI. Daniel was going to be last on the bench next year behind freakin' Alex Jacobson. Miller made a recruiting mistake, it happens all the time, Howland made plenty of them over the last 2 years and look where they ended up. At the end of the day rather is was in Miller's "plans" or not, Daniel never had a role on this team and was never going to. We saw it at the Red/Blue game and some started to question what the deal was and some said don't worry. Rick Barnes saw the light and it's too bad our 2011 class was a dud or Miller would of probably never signed him. If DB was in the 2012 class he would of barely gotten any attention from the staff.

If you want to refer to it as Miller'd, so be it, Arizona will continue to land elite recruits, transfers will continue to happen, like they do at every school and Flipper and the few "message board coaches" who don't like it will just have to deal. Deal flip, Miller is kicking Howland's ass on the court, tournament results and in recruiting since he arrived at Arizona.

Oh and in case anyone forgot scholarships are year to year & nothing is guaranteed, I don't see why this is so hard a concept to get

-Gasser was asked to give up his scholarship for Wade = Romar'd.

Players leaving because they are not going to play = Miller'd
It's elite Div I ball. Players leave all the time, and even St. Lute used to tell players they were better off elsewhere. Olson'd?

And no doubt DB and Tree knew the situation before the extra scholies were offered.


and it goes on for 9 pages of senseless diatribe.   Just thought you might enjoy a bit of what other boards find to talk about in the off season......
Sharing
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 4/28/2011 12:01 PM
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Interesting.
oldkatz
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Posted: 4/28/2011 3:06 PM
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and it goes on for 9 pages of senseless diatribe.   Just thought you might enjoy a bit of what other boards find to talk about in the off season......

     Senseless Diatribe...........................Great name for a band.........or an athletic message board.
Bobcat Love
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Posted: 4/28/2011 3:49 PM
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I wish we could get V.1 back of the site, where I distinctly remember the "Love's Open Letter to Kyryl" thread....basically saying Arizona is the sexy choice, but NOT the right choice in the situation.

Can't remember my reasons (they were probably wrong in retrospect) but the overall theme was correct.
JSF
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Posted: 4/28/2011 7:24 PM
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Hard to argue with the weather, the women, the PTI appearance, and the Elite Eight showing.
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 4/28/2011 10:00 PM
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Weren't we in this position last summer...i.e. Sayles?
OU didn't know
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Posted: 5/2/2011 11:25 AM
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Just a random unlikely thought in this situation.  If Kyryl is released from his scholarship, would he be able to play at another D1 school next year?  I know you traditionally have to sit out a year, but I'm just wondering if the NCAA would allow him to play elsewhere next year without sitting out.  Seeing as we currently have a big need for a big man who can play right away, an open scholarship, and the fact that Kyryl took a visit to Athens and was recruited by Groce, one would have to think they would be monitoring this situation.  Not sure if anyone knows how similar situations have played out. 
bornacatfan
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Posted: 5/2/2011 11:39 AM
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OU didn't know wrote:expand_more
Just a random unlikely thought in this situation.  If Kyryl is released from his scholarship, would he be able to play at another D1 school next year?  I know you traditionally have to sit out a year, but I'm just wondering if the NCAA would allow him to play elsewhere next year without sitting out.  Seeing as we currently have a big need for a big man who can play right away, an open scholarship, and the fact that Kyryl took a visit to Athens and was recruited by Groce, one would have to think they would be monitoring this situation.  Not sure if anyone knows how similar situations have played out. 


Who are we going to move out? Same thing different school. Unfortunately, per the rules he still has to sit.
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 5/2/2011 3:45 PM
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bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Who are we going to move out? Same thing different school. Unfortunately, per the rules he still has to sit.


Borna is right that he still has to sit out a year. Unless he gets a special waiver form the NCAA, but those are usually only granted for family or medical emergencies.

But if he could, we could take him without giving anyone the boot as we still have one open scholarship.
sargentfan
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Posted: 5/3/2011 3:52 PM
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When I was with Ben at the Bobcat Caravan Coach Groce came over and at one point talked about how they did have one scholarship available, but it sounded like he might be sitting on it.  There was some concern that if he took a player who had already used two years or so of eligibility he was going to run into a problem of having so many players graduating at the same time.  Basically it sounded like he'd prefer to have it for the next recruiting class to help spread out the scholarships across the classes.  Which makes sense when you consider there will be no Seniors on next year's team.
OU_Country
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Posted: 5/3/2011 4:42 PM
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sargentfan wrote:expand_more
When I was with Ben at the Bobcat Caravan Coach Groce came over and at one point talked about how they did have one scholarship available, but it sounded like he might be sitting on it.  There was some concern that if he took a player who had already used two years or so of eligibility he was going to run into a problem of having so many players graduating at the same time.  Basically it sounded like he'd prefer to have it for the next recruiting class to help spread out the scholarships across the classes.  Which makes sense when you consider there will be no Seniors on next year's team.


Sargentfan, I wish I'd have met you last night.  I talked with Ben about the same thing later in the night. The other thing to consider is the quality of player that we're going to see if they sign someone now, versus using that scholly next fall.  Assuming everyone hangs around for the upcoming season, I think we're poised to have great deph.  Now it's up to Groce & Co to utilize it to their advantage. 
sargentfan
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Posted: 5/4/2011 8:48 AM
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Yeah very true, I also think it probably has to do with Chemistry too. If you bring a guy in who has already used some eligibility he is going to want to play faster than say an incoming freshman.  Any conflict could hurt your team chemistry pretty easily, better to play it safe when you have such a tight knit group. 
anorris
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Posted: 5/4/2011 2:37 PM
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Derp.  Wrong thread.
Last Edited: 5/4/2011 2:38:12 PM by anorris
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 5/14/2011 4:34 PM
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Borna, you are probably right, but I do remember a situation about a decade ago -- sorry can't remember the player or the school -- where a guy who was cut because of some kind of a similar foul up was given a waiver of the sit-out rule because they viewed his transfer as being due to conditions not under his control but the institutions.  Seems like that logic would apply here.  Again that was awhile back and rules may be stricter now.  But one could hope that sanity would prevail.  Well, we are talking about the NCAA, so that may not relevant! 
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Posted: 5/17/2011 9:54 AM
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Not anymore - Jones Transferring
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 5/17/2011 10:19 AM
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cc cat wrote:expand_more
Not anymore - Jones Transferring


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6557806

Wow, that's a big loss. Apparently he wants to move back closer to home in New York.

He was big for them in the tourney last year, 16 points and 6 assists in their win over Duke in the Sweet 16.
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