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Topic: Cincy-Xavier basket brawl
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Pataskala
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Posted: 12/10/2011 5:26 PM
JSF
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Posted: 12/10/2011 5:27 PM
Glad the announcers got to complain about kids today.

The best part came after. Holloway started bragging about how X is a team of "gangsters." You'll note Holloway ran, Carmelo Anthony-style, from the fracas.
RSBobcat
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Posted: 12/10/2011 5:43 PM
Mick Cronin's press conference is worth the listen

http://www.gobearcats.com/allaccess/?media=273285
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 12/10/2011 6:00 PM
BasketBrawl: An incredible game for the Atari 7800 system.



The official threw knives at you.

However, it was also the most racist video game ever produced.
Last Edited: 12/10/2011 6:00:59 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
Bobcat Love
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Posted: 12/10/2011 6:10 PM
RSBobcat wrote:expand_more
Mick Cronin's press conference is worth the listen

http://www.gobearcats.com/allaccess/?media=273285


He is getting a very positive reaction from the National Media on his comments.
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 12/10/2011 6:14 PM
Holloway and Lyons post game presser is embarrassing. Their S.I.D. should have stepped in and ended the conference in the first two minutes. 

Tu Holloway, Mark Lyons, and Dez Wells of Xavier, and Cheikh Mbodj and Yancy Gates of UC should all be suspended. Plus probably a few more. 
mcbin
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Posted: 12/10/2011 7:27 PM
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:expand_more
Holloway and Lyons post game presser is embarrassing. Their S.I.D. should have stepped in and ended the conference in the first two minutes. 

Tu Holloway, Mark Lyons, and Dez Wells of Xavier, and Cheikh Mbodj and Yancy Gates of UC should all be suspended. Plus probably a few more. 


Agree with the earlier comments. Cronin said all the right things, and Xavier's players didn't shine a good light on that school.

And isn't there an auto suspension if you leave the bench to join an altercation? If so, both teams would seem like they'd have to forfeit their next games.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 12/10/2011 7:32 PM
wha a disgrace.

so thankful that our biggest public embarrassment from a student athlete involves our punter's disdain for Idaho.
RSBobcat
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Posted: 12/10/2011 7:37 PM
mcbin wrote:expand_more
Holloway and Lyons post game presser is embarrassing. Their S.I.D. should have stepped in and ended the conference in the first two minutes.

Tu Holloway, Mark Lyons, and Dez Wells of Xavier, and Cheikh Mbodj and Yancy Gates of UC should all be suspended. Plus probably a few more.


Agree with the earlier comments. Cronin said all the right things, and Xavier's players didn't shine a good light on that school.

And isn't there an auto suspension if you leave the bench to join an altercation? If so, both teams would seem like they'd have to forfeit their next games.
No leave the bench rule in NCAA - just NBA. I bet it's not long before the NCAA does.
cc-cat
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Posted: 12/10/2011 11:38 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Mick Cronin's press conference is worth the listen

http://www.gobearcats.com/allaccess/?media=273285


He is getting a very positive reaction from the National Media on his comments.


He should - he was outstanding. Holloway was embarrassing.  
Last Edited: 12/10/2011 11:44:56 PM by cc-cat
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 12/10/2011 11:55 PM
Will this be the end of this series?
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 12/11/2011 12:00 AM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
Will this be the end of this series?


No way. 
Pataskala
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Posted: 12/11/2011 12:24 AM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Mick Cronin's press conference is worth the listen

http://www.gobearcats.com/allaccess/?media=273285


He is getting a very positive reaction from the National Media on his comments.


Love his comments; it's about time a coach on this level put the game in perspective.  But I can see him getting zapped for criticizing the refs even though they damn well deserve it.  Seems like coaches can't say anything bad about refs, no matter how they mishandled the game.  All the crap that went on in that game and no Ts.  Stupid, stupid, stupid officiating.
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 12/11/2011 12:33 AM
Don't understand why Xavier still had their starters on the floor in a 23-point game. I think Gates will be out 5-10 games.

Holloway looked more like the French Army than a gangster. 
anorris
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Posted: 12/11/2011 12:44 AM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Mick Cronin's press conference is worth the listen

http://www.gobearcats.com/allaccess/?media=273285


He is getting a very positive reaction from the National Media on his comments.


Love his comments; it's about time a coach on this level put the game in perspective.  But I can see him getting zapped for criticizing the refs even though they damn well deserve it.  Seems like coaches can't say anything bad about refs, no matter how they mishandled the game.  All the crap that went on in that game and no Ts.  Stupid, stupid, stupid officiating.
Agree with a lot of the comments on this thread, but wanted to jump in specifically on the officiating.  If you didn't see this brewing a full 25 or 30 game minutes before it happened, you're silly.  As the second half wore on, there was way, way too much let go.
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Posted: 12/11/2011 12:45 AM
Looked like Gates connected with at least two punches. I've sensed Cronin has been frustrated by his players' attitude all season. Holloway and Lyons made themselves look worse than they already did with their comments.
shabamon
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Posted: 12/11/2011 1:54 AM
One report I read said referees went into the X locker room at halftime and told Holloway to cool it.
OUVan
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Posted: 12/11/2011 8:55 AM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=Bobcat Love]Love his comments; it's about time a coach on this level put the game in perspective.  But I can see him getting zapped for criticizing the refs even though they damn well deserve it.  Seems like coaches can't say anything bad about refs, no matter how they mishandled the game.  All the crap that went on in that game and no Ts.  Stupid, stupid, stupid officiating.


I think the biggest problem with his comments is he's painted himself into a corner with them.  He's said if his players don't act the right way they won't be on the team and so if he hands down a game or two suspension it makes his words pretty hollow.   Gates threw at least two punches including the complete blindsiding of Frease and Mboji stomped on a guy who was on the ground.   At least he didn't say his players were men and won't be disrespected.
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Posted: 12/11/2011 9:05 AM
perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
wha a disgrace.

so thankful that our biggest public embarrassment from a student athlete involves our punter's disdain for Idaho.


I never looked at it from that angle.  I'm a Bearcat by birth - my dad is a UC grad.  I've been a fan for a long time.  To me, this is the ugliest thing that's ever happened including some stupid player moments under Huggins.
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Posted: 12/11/2011 9:32 AM

There is a lot of blame to go around in this situation.  To me it starts first with referees, who if they truly did go into that locker room at halftime to warn players, and then did nothing, they have to accept blame for not doing nearly enough.  The game was chippy by halftime, and the talking didn't stop from there.  The next blame has to go with both coaching staffs.  I'm not a basketball coach of young men, so I don't know the dynamics, but why in the hell would Mack have kept Wells, Lyons, or Holloway in the game with 1-2 minutes to go?  He could see what was going on, and they had a 20 point lead.  Then I was shocked he allowed the kids to speak in the press conference to begin with.  They should have been kept from the press for this one.  In some ways, the same could be said for Mick - why leave the kids in that are trash talking at that point in the game?  It was over and there was no need.

I'm a Bobcat first, Bearcat second, and Flyer fan third.  So my family doesn't particularly care for XU.  But I think I can look at this objectively enough to have the opinion that the X players really represented their school much worse than I expected.  I would expect behavior like we saw from Yancy.  I really didn't expect the low class, stupid comments to come from Lyons and Holloway.  From my view, it goes without saying that coming into the game I respected, but disliked Xavier.  I always didn't like them because they're the rival, the other team in town, and they also have what was a respected program.   I know blame for the fight goes both ways, but the tape of that post game presser isn't going away for either of those players, or Xavier University, for a long time.  I also no longer have respect for them, and won't root for them any longer, no matter who they're playing. 

Finally, I admire the stance Mick took in the press conference.  I agree he kind of painted himself into a corner, but he at least took a stance.  Now for him, he has to follow through.  Yancy needs to be out for a long time.  Some of the alumni I was around yesterday said they should just remove him from the team. I don't know the answer, but I hope the schools send the right message to the players involved.
 

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Posted: 12/11/2011 10:18 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more

Finally, I admire the stance Mick took in the press conference.  I agree he kind of painted himself into a corner, but he at least took a stance.  Now for him, he has to follow through.   



I agree. Not sure if my post came across as critical of him but I thought he sent the exact message that needed to be sent.
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Posted: 12/11/2011 10:23 AM
OUVan wrote:expand_more

Finally, I admire the stance Mick took in the press conference.  I agree he kind of painted himself into a corner, but he at least took a stance.  Now for him, he has to follow through.   



I agree. Not sure if my post came across as critical of him but I thought he sent the exact message that needed to be sent.


I didn't view it as critical.  It was actually an angle I hadn't considered.  I gained respect for Mick, and lost a lot for Mack - unless of course there are comments from him I haven't heard or read.
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Posted: 12/11/2011 12:02 PM
Just WOW

We first saw Yancy at summer team camp and played Hughes in a hot un air conditioned gym on June 30th. He was a total aarsehole and I found out later from Brian Snow who was covering his recruitment fro Rivals that was pretty much who he was ....an oversized hotheade punk who got a way with a lot becuase no one is dumb enough to take on Goliath. Obviously from the angle of the punch he is a big puss. Cheap shot.

THe X athletes needed an SID close at hand. To Groce's credit he, in the past has been accused by the media for beong too controlling of what the kids said but I sispect he would have shut that down. Unfortunate for boththose schools but these players really are ganstas and thugs withthe street pedigree to back it up. Even though some of ours would loke to be seen in that light sometimes they are all from good homes and "Better" neighborhoods. DOn't think for one second I (IMHO) dont think Coach does not need to set down the law today and reiterate what the consequences are to OHIO athletes for similar stupidity. OUr guys have a streak of this in them and it needs to be proactively addressed. Groce will have an inside here with his X connections. I think Tu wasamong  the last of those IU  connections to the debacle tat was the IU program to be playing.

Cronin has nnn ever had my respect. He does now. I ahve watched him on the recuriting trail, at his daughters volleyball games and in social settings at the NCAA finals and never liked the guy but when it comes to what really matters inthe game of basketball he showed passion, resolve, respect for the game and his instittution, willingness to call his players out and remind them that no one "Deserves" a scholarhip just because they have talent. and a number of other things. I admire him for bringing the officiating to the forefront as wayyyyy too many officials let games get too far out of hand. Even as the big light skinned kid #33 from Morgan State was on the court I thougth the stripes were letting him get away with some taunting of the crowd and extra dirty play under bucket that should have been addressed. I am still pissed Larry Scirotto and Lickliter neither one penalixed Watt from Buffalo for that cheap shot to TOmmy;s head. Maybe Cronin's comment will get a reaction from the officiating crowd to tighten things up. Well done Mick

Chris Mack....revered by UD long time fans for his dirty play has a tenuous position when talking about dirty play. ALl he needs is for tape to roll on his past. In looking at the tape I must have missed the X players actually doing much more than defending themselves but like our situation with BAll State the bench needs to stay on their end of the floor. The X case would be much tighter had the presser not been so damaging ......and really ...you have those kids in your locker room and are at a very rigid catholic school and youare not going to try and help them with life skills? You are not going to tell them they are not in the hood anymore. YOu are their mentor. They are gong to have a degree from X and they are going to enter the workplace with those attitudes. HMMMMMM how does that reflect on what you have taught them about life in 4 years?  Even though a number of X players end up at NKU and other programs as they are recruitied over or leave for some reason with regualarity some of them are going to graduate and is will say X on their diploma...is that what you want representing your alumni inthe workplace? 

While it is nothing compared to the McAdoo incedent or similar brawls of the 70's it is ugly and reflects on sports and how we are teaching children to become men. 

FWIW I still think Dakich's cleanong out of the IU program has been on target and set the stage for what happened yesterday in the CIntas and in Bloomington. 

Just my .02

 
Last Edited: 12/11/2011 12:03:51 PM by bornacatfan
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Posted: 12/11/2011 3:08 PM
If you want some entertainment then head over to the Xavier message boards and read what they say. Then venture over to the UC message boards. Very funny stuff. Rumor has it that they do not like each other.
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Posted: 12/11/2011 3:17 PM
Was at the game yesterday, and we didn't know what the hell even happened it escalated so quickly. But to ignore the fact that this was going to happen is naive. Holloway and Lyons were jawing with the UC bench the entire second half. Granted, UC kind of had it coming with the talk because they mouthed off first, but it should have NEVER gotten to that point. The officials were just letting them play, which was good to a degree because the game was better. However, in a heated rivalry game you gotta call it a little more closely.

I'm a huge Mick Cronin fan now after watching that presser. He owned it. Helluva lot better than Coach Mack essentially being silent. Their SID, who I know personally, totally dropped the ball on the responses for Mack, Lyons, and Holloway. You have to pull them aside and prepare them for those questions before then even get out there.

I'm embarassed to be a Xavier grad today, especially because Xavier fans, alumni, and administration always pride themselves on being the better university in Cincinnati, and doing things the right way. Well, I hate to break it to most Xavier fans, but you're just as bad as the big schools. I've seen things and heard things behind the scenes that you won't hear in the media.

At the end of the day, this makes Xavier look worse than UC. Not that UC shouldn't bare some of the blame, but Xavier has the most to lose here. They can no longer carry that badge of being the "higher class" university, for lack of a better term.
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