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Topic: What would a top 25 team do?
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Wilson Hall Record Holder
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Posted: 12/23/2011 6:52 PM
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Or as it is more commonly stated " WWAT25D" 

....but to continue, a top 25 playing at home before Christmas would go out against a team like North Carolina A & T and ring up 90 to 100 points and win by 30+


With our emphasis on defensively dominating team lately, something more like holding them to 40 - 50 while scoring 70 -80 + is more realistic.


IF we are a top 25 team.
HeHateMiami
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Posted: 12/23/2011 9:03 PM
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Given how sloppily we played I'll take the 16 point victory. Onward and upward.
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Posted: 12/23/2011 9:32 PM
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Wilson Hall Record Holder wrote:expand_more
Or as it is more commonly stated " WWAT25D" 

....but to continue, a top 25 playing at home before Christmas would go out against a team like North Carolina A & T and ring up 90 to 100 points and win by 30+


With our emphasis on defensively dominating team lately, something more like holding them to 40 - 50 while scoring 70 -80 + is more realistic.


IF we are a top 25 team.


Most of the top 25 teams have played only 2 or 3 true road games at this point.  When you've played six of the last eight on the road, including a very emotional game two nights ago in Iowa, even a top 25 team is bound to be a little flat.  I caught only the last nine minutes or so but Russ mentioned that the Cats were much more up tempo on defense in the 2nd half and NCAT was shooting out of their heads in the 1st half.  Top 25 teams win on nights like that.  The Cats might not be a top 25 team just yet, but they're close.  They were 40th in last week's AP poll and I expect them to be top 35 this week.  Of the teams immediately ahead of them, Northwestern, Cal, Cleveland St, UNI, Tx A&M and Stanford all lost this week.
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Posted: 12/23/2011 9:48 PM
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In the past this is a game we would have lost in front of an announced crowd of 3000.  Tonight, the Cats, all 10 of them, showed the actual 4500 who were in attendance why they are 11 and 1.  It sure is nice to have 4 point guards.  I'm not sure even the old UNLV teams could press this bunch.  Despite the poor free throw shooting this was still a good win.  A week off to visit family and friends and then it's back at it for the long stretch till March.
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Posted: 12/23/2011 10:00 PM
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This was a trap game if i had ever seen one. And the bobcats of old would of folded and lost this game. These guys came out in the second half and finished it and that is something we have not seen in a long while. People will complain saying we should of won by 40 points but a W is a W and ill say it a thousand times:

I LOVE THIS TEAM!
bornacatfan
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Posted: 12/23/2011 10:06 PM
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Its college basketball.

Inconsistencies rule. A and T did something the scout did not include...they shot the ball well.

YOu can t say they are not a top 25 team because they did not blow them out. Ludicrous.


same for those fan based somewhat mythological and overhyped, overused applications...Trap game and checked out for break already/ Team weathered the A and T storm and closed them out. PERIOD
 

 

Ohio football
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Posted: 12/23/2011 10:18 PM
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Ask Pitt
whocaresgobobcats
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Posted: 12/23/2011 10:25 PM
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Louisville sure doesn't know about this rule.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 12/23/2011 10:35 PM
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Lord Wellington Fisherburn wrote:expand_more
Louisville sure doesn't know about this rule.


Really? Are you implying every team U of L has seen this year has done exactly what the scout said they would do? NO one came out and surprised them with a performance they were not prepared for? I dont expect they had ST on their radar nor did they probably expect IVO to spend an eternity on the bench...yet they found themselves having to step up and  adjust the same way we did tonite.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point.
Last Edited: 12/23/2011 10:36:54 PM by bornacatfan
DelBobcat
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Posted: 12/23/2011 11:31 PM
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bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Louisville sure doesn't know about this rule.


Really? Are you implying every team U of L has seen this year has done exactly what the scout said they would do? NO one came out and surprised them with a performance they were not prepared for? I dont expect they had ST on their radar nor did they probably expect IVO to spend an eternity on the bench...yet they found themselves having to step up and  adjust the same way we did tonite.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point.


I think he was actually agreeing with you.
HeHateMiami
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Posted: 12/23/2011 11:45 PM
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bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Louisville sure doesn't know about this rule.


Really? Are you implying every team U of L has seen this year has done exactly what the scout said they would do? NO one came out and surprised them with a performance they were not prepared for? I dont expect they had ST on their radar nor did they probably expect IVO to spend an eternity on the bench...yet they found themselves having to step up and  adjust the same way we did tonite.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point.


I read it as a comment about how U of L almost got smoked at home by WKU tonight.

Also, FYI to everyone responding, this thread started before the game tipped off, which makes it read more predictiony (not a word, oh well) and a little less negative to me.
anorris
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Posted: 12/24/2011 1:52 AM
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HeHateMiami wrote:expand_more
Louisville sure doesn't know about this rule.


Really? Are you implying every team U of L has seen this year has done exactly what the scout said they would do? NO one came out and surprised them with a performance they were not prepared for? I dont expect they had ST on their radar nor did they probably expect IVO to spend an eternity on the bench...yet they found themselves having to step up and  adjust the same way we did tonite.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point.


I read it as a comment about how U of L almost got smoked at home by WKU tonight.

Also, FYI to everyone responding, this thread started before the game tipped off, which makes it read more predictiony (not a word, oh well) and a little less negative to me.
Louisville was going to be my example too.  Winning ugly, close games night in and night out.

What would a top 25 team do?

They'd find a way to win.  Somebody would step up, and it won't be the same person every game.

Some fun facts:

Times lead team in scoring

Cooper 7
Offutt 2
Keely 2
Kellogg 1
Baltic 1
Taylor 1

(Due to ties, these numbers won't total 12)

Times lead team in rebounds

Baltic 5
Offutt 3
Keely 3
Cooper 2
Goard 1
Smith 1
Johnson 1

(Due to ties, these numbers won't total 12)

Double figure scoring games

Cooper 10
Offutt 8
Baltic 7
Keely 7
Kellogg 5
Taylor 5
Hall 2
Smith 1
Johnson 1

A little math reveals that, on average, we have close to four guys in double-digits on any given night.  Nine players have done it, and six more than five times.

Six players have led the team in scoring, and seven in rebounding.  This is a team that, on any given night, ANYONE up to about ten deep can have a huge night.  With that many pieces, the chances of everybody being down at once are low, and it makes things hell for an opposing coach.  Who, pray tell, do you focus your efforts on?

This is a really, really fun team to watch, and the talent runs deep.
That one crazy fan
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Posted: 12/24/2011 3:39 AM
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I have to go with the half on the board that said we handled it like a top 25 team did.  Not everyone plays perfect games, not even top 25ers.  However, those in the top 25 still find a way to win, even in sloppy games.  What we did tonight, proved that we are good.  We played a very flat game after a very emotional and extraordinary win against a capable team and still won.  This team has something.  We may not win every game we should, but we will win and we will prove that we are a good team.  In my book that's all that matters.
OUVan
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Posted: 12/24/2011 5:46 AM
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I think tonight will be an excellent teaching point for Groce the rest of the season.  We saw how ordinary we are without the defensive intensity we have had recently.  We then saw what a difference it makes when we play with that defensive intensity.  Not sure what was said during the under 8 minute timeout but the team that came out afterwards was the not the team that went into the huddle.  The Aggies then went something like 4 minutes without scoring.  But prior to that, especially in the first half, we had very poor defensive rotation and nobody was willing to take a charge. We sure could have used Tommy in the first half.  NC A&T drove the lane like crazy against Akron as well but they have a fly swatter in the lane so it didn't hurt them as badly.

It will be good to play these three games in a row in the Convo because we really shot the ball poorly last night.  We need to get used to shooting here again.  The overall numbers don't look terrible but we missed a ton of wide open looks. They did a good job of taking away the inside and forcing us to beat their zone.  We actually got a lot of good looks but just weren't shooting as well as we have been. 

Still, it's nice to be able to complain about a 16 point victory against anybody.  11-1.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 12/24/2011 8:44 AM
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In retro spect I thought we handled it very well. When I got home and got into the Chat there werecomments about athletes leaving for home metnally and a classic trap game. I disagreed as I am around these athletes and hate when what is actually happening in the locker room and on the floor is totally different than what the fans think or postualte .


At about 9 mins left in the half I said not to worry ...that Stevie had carried us and A & T had shot uncharacteristically well and that the experience would step up soon. After that time out Baltic, Keely bulling his way down the right side of the lane, Walt with 2 great defensive plays and a drive DJ running out and running the offense , handing off to baltic downthe lane and a couple of other plays and it was done. That confirms what was just said above...we found a way to win on a night when A&T was very uncharacteristically hot. 

Time to ponder Ithought about the other side of the coin where the inconsisties lie within OUrselves. Someone has a bad nihgt or plays out of the context of the offensive scheme, is a asleep or lazy on D or is in foul trouble. The consistency seen in the NBA is not trhere with 18 to 22 year old kids....ask any college coach out there how that is....they will tell you that is the beauty and challenge of NCAA ball and what makes them good at their job. The ability ot mentor and help these kids grow into men.

I am not saying we are a top 25 team or not as I put very littel stock into polls. The only one that counts is at the end of the year. being top 25 does not win  us the MAC tourney...only puts a target on OUr back,. BEing Top 25 only has  recipes for disaster in the locker room. It may make the fanbase feel good and is a good marker for where Groce and  Co have brought the program and a benchmark for continued success but it also has many downsides. (like postulating what a top 25 team SHOULD  do ina fans eyes)  that need to be addressed.

In the end I have long said WE should own the MAC. We have hte best campus, the best arena , the best fans, We should tuen out thousands every night from SEO and alumni far and wide, We should generate big donors from a fanbase that is veryh successful and at NO time should a team like Wright State think they should own us just because we are in the MAC. We3 were winning against top 25 teams before they broke ground. WOuld they thinkthey should walk on a floor and be an automatic shoe in vs Gonzaga, Butler or any other mid because they are WSU?  I was put off by their attitude last week and it only served to amplify my feelings that OU should be dominating the MAC instead of merely competing iin it.

My only hop0e here is that when we become a top 25 team we do not turn into the flamingb idiots Butler/Gonzaga and similar fans do when they think they have atained a "higher" stature. I got into 2 major flames last year onthe Butler board when I assured the fanbase they would be fine even thouht they lost some early seaqson games and when they thought they were too good to keep BSU onthe schedule because it dragged their RPI down. Feeeking idiots. They lose thier minds with delusions of granduer whenthey are winning and when the fear of falling looms they go bonkers. Hope we are smarter and control our collective conscience when we get where we all want to go,

Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/24/2011 12:00 PM
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There is no such thing as a trap game.  Gotta be ready to play them all.

Last night?  Ultimately, we did what we had to.  And our depth carried the day.  WIth 10 guys who can play and against a team that is eminently beatable, some few guys were bound to step forward and propel us.

I thought that we were immediately more active on defense the second that the 2nd half began.  We didn't play great D right away in the second half but we played enough defense to have it sealed with 5-7 minutes remaining.

I like the nights when we commit to defense the whole game.
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Posted: 12/25/2011 11:23 AM
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What would...Brian Boitano do?

www.youtube.com/watch
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 12/25/2011 12:16 PM
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mf279801 wrote:expand_more
What would...Brian Boitano do?

www.youtube.com/watch


I'm sure he'd kick an ass or two.
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Posted: 12/25/2011 12:35 PM
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Maybe we are a top 25 team. Who knows? The way it works right now for a MAC type team is that you build up a gaudy record and crack the poll, but as soon as you lose a few conference games, you're out. It's almost a negative, because you can't surprise anyone if you make the tourney. Is Louisville really that good to be #4? Wagner beats Pitt and so on. It should be very interesting.
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Posted: 12/25/2011 11:47 PM
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bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
I am not saying we are a top 25 team or not as I put very littel stock into polls. The only one that counts is at the end of the year. being top 25 does not win  us the MAC tourney...only puts a target on OUr back,. BEing Top 25 only has  recipes for disaster in the locker room. It may make the fanbase feel good and is a good marker for where Groce and  Co have brought the program and a benchmark for continued success but it also has many downsides. (like postulating what a top 25 team SHOULD  do ina fans eyes)  that need to be addressed. 

In the end I have long said WE should own the MAC. We have hte best campus, the best arena , the best fans, We should tuen out thousands every night from SEO and alumni far and wide, We should generate big donors from a fanbase that is veryh successful and at NO time should a team like Wright State think they should own us just because we are in the MAC. We3 were winning against top 25 teams before they broke ground. WOuld they thinkthey should walk on a floor and be an automatic shoe in vs Gonzaga, Butler or any other mid because they are WSU?  I was put off by their attitude last week and it only served to amplify my feelings that OU should be dominating the MAC instead of merely competing in it.



A top 25 ranking is a huge status symbol in men's basketball because its its instant recognition for your program within the college basketball world. Anybody who pays attention to sports is checking out who is listed in the weekly rankings. Bobcat fans talk like OHIO has a lot of tradition in men's basketball. They do have a good winning tradition but the only tradition that counts is NCAA tourney tradition, top 25 tradition in the mind of the public. The institutional memory of college basketball is formed by those markers. The Bobcat program should aim for being noted as a regular NCAA participant and a frequent visitor of the top 25. That sounds a lot like the level where the Temple program has resided for decades. They have an advantage of the status of state school for the Philadelphia metro and they've always put more money behind their program than MAC institutions. OHIO has advantages over the MAC institutions in facility and support by the administration so there are parallels to programs like Temple, Butler, Gonzaga that have helped them standout among the pack within their conference every year. There are lot of Ohio alums with money that would shell it out for a serious team. The Convo at 13,000 seats has the capacity to rake in a lot of money for the program. The Groce regime I believe is the start of OHIO fully harnessing the capacity of its men's basketball program.  



 

OUVan
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Posted: 12/26/2011 7:54 AM
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Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
A top 25 ranking is a huge status symbol in men's basketball because its its instant recognition for your program within the college basketball world. Anybody who pays attention to sports is checking out who is listed in the weekly rankings. Bobcat fans talk like OHIO has a lot of tradition in men's basketball. They do have a good winning tradition but the only tradition that counts is NCAA tourney tradition, top 25 tradition in the mind of the public. 
 


Not to mention if you are in the top 25 ESPN shows highlights of your games every time you play.  Doesn't sound like much but it is, especially in name recognition.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 12/26/2011 10:26 AM
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Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
A top 25 ranking is a huge status symbol in men's basketball because its its instant recognition for your program within the college basketball world. Anybody who pays attention to sports is checking out who is listed in the weekly rankings. Bobcat fans talk like OHIO has a lot of tradition in men's basketball. They do have a good winning tradition but the only tradition that counts is NCAA tourney tradition, top 25 tradition in the mind of the public. The institutional memory of college basketball is formed by those markers. The Bobcat program should aim for being noted as a regular NCAA participant and a frequent visitor of the top 25. That sounds a lot like the level where the Temple program has resided for decades. They have an advantage of the status of state school for the Philadelphia metro and they've always put more money behind their program than MAC institutions. OHIO has advantages over the MAC institutions in facility and support by the administration so there are parallels to programs like Temple, Butler, Gonzaga that have helped them standout among the pack within their conference every year. There are lot of Ohio alums with money that would shell it out for a serious team. The Convo at 13,000 seats has the capacity to rake in a lot of money for the program. The Groce regime I believe is the start of OHIO fully harnessing the capacity of its men's basketball program.  
 


Excellent analysis. excellent points. I am probably one of the few who looks at the paper to see who won and NEVER know who is ranked anywhere but the Pomeroy statistics.
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Posted: 12/26/2011 12:31 PM
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I'm with you, borna. But the others have made good cases as to why it's important. So let's keep it rolling!
anorris
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Posted: 12/26/2011 1:16 PM
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OUVan wrote:expand_more
A top 25 ranking is a huge status symbol in men's basketball because its its instant recognition for your program within the college basketball world. Anybody who pays attention to sports is checking out who is listed in the weekly rankings. Bobcat fans talk like OHIO has a lot of tradition in men's basketball. They do have a good winning tradition but the only tradition that counts is NCAA tourney tradition, top 25 tradition in the mind of the public.


Not to mention if you are in the top 25 ESPN shows highlights of your games every time you play. Doesn't sound like much but it is, especially in name recognition.
*If your game is actually on TV.
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Posted: 12/26/2011 2:26 PM
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OHIO is up to #32 in the Coaches poll this week tied with St. Mary's.
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