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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Why the sudden reliance on the 3?
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Pataskala
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Posted: 1/7/2012 9:29 PM
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Suddenly the Cats apparently think every other shot has to be a 3.  In going 10-1 through the UNI game, the Cats shot a 3 34.8% of the time (234 of 669) and made a respectable 37.1% of them (87 of 234).  Since then, 43% of their shots have been 3s (101 of 234) and they're making only 27.7% of them (28 of 101).  The result has been two losses and two games that were closer than necessary (they beat NCAT by 16 but most of that margin came in the last five mins).  Half their shots against NCAT were 3s and nearly half against Kennesaw. On the other hand, they've consistently hit about 50% of their 2s. 
Casper71
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Posted: 1/7/2012 10:16 PM
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News Flash-Jump shooting teams do not win consistently.
Chicken George
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Posted: 1/7/2012 11:04 PM
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I agree that I'd like to see a more inside/out game.   I just don't think Ivo & Reggie are consistent enough right now.  When you eliminate Smith, Goard, Johnson who could add a slashing/inside game to support Ivo/Reggie (the only 2 real interior options we have) then you're left with a bunch of other guys who settle for the 3 a lot of times. 

It appeared that when we were rolling, those 3's were falling.  Haven't been the past 2 games and were struggling to find alternative ways to score.  We have seen Walter try to penetrate more and even a bit of TJ earlier, but we settle for the 3 and live/die by the 3 a lot. 

Jim Bob
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Posted: 1/8/2012 10:00 AM
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We are getting about what was expected of the inside game. I am disappointed in our guards ability to create, break down the defense, drive and kick etc. I can't believe with our quality guards we didn't do a better job against the BG zone.  What has happened to DJ? he was breaking down defenses all the time his freshman year. now he is content to stay on perimeter and launch deep threes. is this a change in coaching philosophy?
Pataskala
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Posted: 1/8/2012 11:02 AM
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Jim Bob wrote:expand_more
We are getting about what was expected of the inside game. I am disappointed in our guards ability to create, break down the defense, drive and kick etc. I can't believe with our quality guards we didn't do a better job against the BG zone.  What has happened to DJ? he was breaking down defenses all the time his freshman year. now he is content to stay on perimeter and launch deep threes. is this a change in coaching philosophy?


It's interesting that three of DJ's four highest 3-pt attempt totals for the season were in the three losses: 12 against Robt Morris, 11 against L'ville, 7 against BG (he had 9 in the Oakland win, hitting 3 and also shot 7 in the Ark St win).  He's tried 92 3s so far this season, so about a third of his attempts were in the three losses.  He was 8 of 30 (26.7%) in the three losses.  Can't say which is the chicken and which is the egg, but it's interesting DJ's putting up a lot of 3s in the losses.
OU_Country
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Posted: 1/8/2012 1:57 PM
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I have to add one thing to this:  Too many of the attempted three's are coming from one player in particular.  Additionally, I think it has less to do with the number of three's, than it does with shot selection.  I still think shooting more than half the shots from behind the arc is a problem.
Casper71
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Posted: 1/9/2012 3:59 PM
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Just took a look at the stats...we have (I believe it was) four players shooting less than 30% from three range.  Two guys are over 40%.  One of my old coaches always said that maybe if you are getting wide open looks from three it is because your oponent has learned something about you.  Like maybe the want you to take that shot becasue you don't make 'em very often and you are NOT a consistent threat from that range? 

Also, hard to believe we are actually shooting threes better than our opponents.
Ohio69
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Posted: 1/9/2012 4:26 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
We are getting about what was expected of the inside game. I am disappointed in our guards ability to create, break down the defense, drive and kick etc. I can't believe with our quality guards we didn't do a better job against the BG zone.  What has happened to DJ? he was breaking down defenses all the time his freshman year. now he is content to stay on perimeter and launch deep threes. is this a change in coaching philosophy?


It's interesting that three of DJ's four highest 3-pt attempt totals for the season were in the three losses: 12 against Robt Morris, 11 against L'ville, 7 against BG (he had 9 in the Oakland win, hitting 3 and also shot 7 in the Ark St win).  He's tried 92 3s so far this season, so about a third of his attempts were in the three losses.  He was 8 of 30 (26.7%) in the three losses.  Can't say which is the chicken and which is the egg, but it's interesting DJ's putting up a lot of 3s in the losses.


My take on DJ for the Robert Morris and BG games is that nobody else could get anything going so he was taking a few extra attempts just to try something, anything....  And, I don't blame him.

I don't mind the reliance on the 3.  But, Offut and Kellog need to hit the darn shots (Hall too) or we have the wrong strategy altogether.
Last Edited: 1/9/2012 4:27:12 PM by Ohio69
SBH
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Posted: 1/9/2012 5:47 PM
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I agree that it doesn't all rest on DJ's shoulders but, darn, there were several situations when he looked lost against BG's 2-3 zone.  And several others when he penetrated and had no one to dish it off to. 


Pataskala
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Posted: 1/9/2012 9:22 PM
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Wasn't trying to put it on DJ's shoulders either, but when he shoots a lot of threes, it's a sign that things aren't going well.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 1/10/2012 11:06 PM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
[
My take on DJ for the Robert Morris and BG games is that nobody else could get anything going so he was taking a few extra attempts just to try something, anything....  And, I don't blame him.


Yada yada yada.

Doesnt trust his team mates, no else can create their own shot, no other scoring options....bullsheist. Without going into great detail....it s all a load of crap. Take it to the bank. WHen the pg RUNS the show teams win . When the PG is the show teams lose.

I have very few players that really rise above the game in my eyes to demonstrate an innate knowlege.Johnny Flynn is one of them. His quote that endeared me to him was at ABCD camp with JJ HIckson, Kevin Love, Kyle SIngler, Eric Gordon, OJ Mayo, Bill Walker, Patrick Patterson, Matt Howard, JuJuan JOhnson, JOn Diebler, Blake Hoffaber, Cole Aldrich, Alex Legion , Evan Turner, Dallas Lauderdale, Koufos and more had the best take on it when he said.

.

"Your obligation as a point guard is to get everybody the ball," Flynn said. "Everybody wants to eat. Everybody wants to score. It's a leadership quality to be able to run the offense and find open teammates and get them the ball. College coaches appreciate that, to have a point guard come in and pass the ball."......

Flynn has been one of the most dominant point guards at camp for that reason. With capable scorers like Chris Allen, Tracy Smith and J.J. Hickson on his team, Flynn's role is to distribute. He's more than happy doing it.
..........
Syracuse commit Johnny Flynn is fine with that, as long as he can get his teammates involved and win games

YOu all can justify it all you want but the bottom line is DJ is a great PG and when he distributes and gives his teammates the ball where they can do something with it they will hit shots. When he has his feet set and takes his shots inthe context of the offense as he did several times the other night he is money. ANyone can run the DVR back and see the difference betweenthe shots he hit and the ones he did not.



 

RSBobcat
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Posted: 1/10/2012 11:28 PM
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bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
[
My take on DJ for the Robert Morris and BG games is that nobody else could get anything going so he was taking a few extra attempts just to try something, anything.... And, I don't blame him.


Yada yada yada.

Doesnt trust his team mates, no else can create their own shot, no other scoring options....bullsheist. Without going into great detail....it s all a load of crap. Take it to the bank. WHen the pg RUNS the show teams win . When the PG is the show teams lose.

I have very few players that really rise above the game in my eyes to demonstrate an innate knowlege.Johnny Flynn is one of them. His quote that endeared me to him was at ABCD camp with JJ HIckson, Kevin Love, Kyle SIngler, Eric Gordon, OJ Mayo, Bill Walker, Patrick Patterson, Matt Howard, JuJuan JOhnson, JOn Diebler, Blake Hoffaber, Cole Aldrich, Alex Legion , Evan Turner, Dallas Lauderdale, Koufos and more had the best take on it when he said.

.
"Your obligation as a point guard is to get everybody the ball," Flynn said. "Everybody wants to eat. Everybody wants to score. It's a leadership quality to be able to run the offense and find open teammates and get them the ball. College coaches appreciate that, to have a point guard come in and pass the ball."......

Flynn has been one of the most dominant point guards at camp for that reason. With capable scorers like Chris Allen, Tracy Smith and J.J. Hickson on his team, Flynn's role is to distribute. He's more than happy doing it.
..........
Syracuse commit Johnny Flynn is fine with that, as long as he can get his teammates involved and win games

YOu all can justify it all you want but the bottom line is DJ is a great PG and when he distributes and gives his teammates the ball where they can do something with it they will hit shots. When he has his feet set and takes his shots inthe context of the offense as he did several times the other night he is money. ANyone can run the DVR back and see the difference betweenthe shots he hit and the ones he did not.
All relevant. However, the prior point about lack of others to create, indeed "participate" in developing a "context" of the offense relevant also - more urgency and aggressive "motion", speed of ball rotation/passing, aggresiveness of picks/screens, movement off of, etc.
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