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Topic: Official MAC Quarterfinals Thread: Toledo
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Bobcatzblitz
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Posted: 3/8/2012 11:16 PM
IF THESE GUYS ARE PLAYING DEFENSE LIKE THIS THEY CAN WIN THE MAC CHAMPIONSHIP. I AM NOT CONCERNED WITH THE OFFENSE AT THIS POINT WE ARE A STREAKY SCORING TEAM BUT WHEN THEY ARE HYPED UP AND IN THEIR BOBCAT CROUCH WATCH OUT. I LIKE HOW STEVIE TAYLOR BRINGS A SPARK AT THE BACK UP POINT GUARD SPOT. DJ COOPER HAS TO GET SOME HEAT CHECK THREES OUT OF HIS SYSTEM FINE WE CAN LIVE WITH THAT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THE GUY HITS SOME HUGE THREE'S AND IS A MAESTRO WITH A BASKETBALL.
colobobcat66
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Posted: 3/8/2012 11:17 PM
I will say the first half was ugly, particularly the first 10 minutes. Second half just the opposite so far. Way to go team.
bobcats11
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Posted: 3/8/2012 11:25 PM
Bobcatzblitz wrote:expand_more
DID SOMEONE JUST SAY DEFENSE DOESNT MATTER. ANYONE THAT HAS PLAYED ANY SPORT KNOWS THAT DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. DO YOU WANT TO RETRACT YOUR PRIOR STATEMENT.


who said defense doesn't matter?? I certainly hope you're not responding to one of my comments because that is in no way something i suggested.  I didn't panic in the 1st half at all unlike most of these earlier posts.  Our bread and butter is our defense, I'm well aware of that. And the defense and dominant rebounding has turned into a 16 point lead. Go Cats!
Jerry86
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Posted: 3/8/2012 11:30 PM
Baltic needs to sit. Sorry but to pass up a layup and try a 12 foot bank shot is poor judgment.

He has played good D tonight though.
Last Edited: 3/8/2012 11:33:02 PM by Jerry86
JSF
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Posted: 3/8/2012 11:36 PM
Bobcatzblitz wrote:expand_more
IF THESE GUYS ARE PLAYING DEFENSE LIKE THIS THEY CAN WIN THE MAC CHAMPIONSHIP. I AM NOT CONCERNED WITH THE OFFENSE AT THIS POINT WE ARE A STREAKY SCORING TEAM BUT WHEN THEY ARE HYPED UP AND IN THEIR BOBCAT CROUCH WATCH OUT. I LIKE HOW STEVIE TAYLOR BRINGS A SPARK AT THE BACK UP POINT GUARD SPOT. DJ COOPER HAS TO GET SOME HEAT CHECK THREES OUT OF HIS SYSTEM FINE WE CAN LIVE WITH THAT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THE GUY HITS SOME HUGE THREE'S AND IS A MAESTRO WITH A BASKETBALL.


Bobcatzblitz
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Posted: 3/8/2012 11:47 PM
TOLEDO IS A SOLID WIN TONITE GUYS.
Ohio69
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Posted: 3/8/2012 11:55 PM
Agreed.  Solid win.  Great effort and intensity.  Really impressed with the defense.  

Also like what we are getting out of Kellog lately.  

Time for a threepeat Friday night.
bobcats11
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Posted: 3/8/2012 11:56 PM
Haha.  JSF...good stuff man, that's funny.    


GOOD WIN TONIGHT CATS! WAY TO GO! WOOHOO! YEAH! WOO! GOOD JOB
Ozcat
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Posted: 3/8/2012 11:56 PM
Sloppy win. But I'll take it. Gonna have to improve for tomorrow though. Keep it up Cats!
71 BOBCAT
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Posted: 3/9/2012 12:01 AM
That run to start the 2nd half turned out to be the difference. Toledo could not match our energy and the balance of the half was just trading baskets.
While Baltic was not on his offensive game you have to give his D credit as he shut down Rian.





GO BOBCATS
Last Edited: 3/9/2012 12:01:49 AM by 71 BOBCAT
cc-cat
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Posted: 3/9/2012 12:04 AM
Sloppy on the offensive end, but the D and hustle to rebound was outstanding.  Keep that up and the shots will follow.  As of now, count me into the "glad we played tonight" category. 
anorris
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Posted: 3/9/2012 12:10 AM
Tom Valentino
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Posted: 3/9/2012 12:12 AM
Underrated development of the 2nd half: Reggie Keely had a few really nice, strong takes to the basket. With Ivo consistently settling for fadeaways (something Toledo figured out pretty quickly), we needed somebody to get strong at the rim. Hope somebody keeps the fire lit under Keely's tail like that for the rest of the weekend.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/9/2012 12:42 AM

 I am not sure what a "heat check three" is but I have never met a true shooter who needs to get them out of their system. A lot of folks clamoring about the shooting but it all comes down to good habits and mechanics.
 
While I am not one to change a kid when thngs are working,  Paul Pierce has on e of the funkiest shots going but it works for him so leave it alone. OTOH  it ahs been getting pretty brutal withthe comments this year regarding shootig coming from fans, acknowledged by the coaches and showing up in the stat lines. Something should be getting folsk attention tothe point whre you  maigh have considered  a slightly different direction at some time...  

 I have noticed there is a difference in the mechanics of the shooters on this team from warm up to floor and from shot to shot. Just like Trey Zeigler never releases  shots (consistent release is the most important part of the shot) the  same way 2 times in a row...... and I am not picking on DJ but merely noted over a few games which shots go down and which don't. It all starts in his case with the feet. Anyone who has ever played or coached should be able to pick three things to work in the off season out of these two pics that would result in a much higher %. Again, not singling DJ out just had some excellent pics to look at in the last couple of days.  For any of you folks coaching young kids ...695  et al....there are a couple of really good websites to use for background. This is one of the best shooting coaches in the states......oddly enough he relocated from california landing in a barn in Ohio and attracting kids from all over the US.....just go out past Larry"s Dog House past the country club and take a left..... 


GraffZ06
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Posted: 3/9/2012 12:52 AM
That's some of the most atrocious shooting form I've seen in a long time. As you say, some people get away with it based on natural talent.....others (34% and 29%) do not, and he's not the only one on this team with this problem.
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 3/9/2012 7:03 AM

      Watching "In Coop We Trust" I don't believe you see the same mechanics on three-point shooting by Coop.  Shooting at a 45-degree angle instead of squaring up; fading away on many 3 attempts. These appear to be things that Coop didn't do as a frosh. At least not as pronounced.

bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/9/2012 7:49 AM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more

      Watching "In Coop We Trust" I don't believe you see the same mechanics on three-point shooting by Coop.  Shooting at a 45-degree angle instead of squaring up; fading away on many 3 attempts. These appear to be things that Coop didn't do as a frosh. At least not as pronounced.



I agree. He is way past 45 inthose pics which is why it is easy to see, even for folks who are not used to breaking each shot down. When he is money is when he is  feet slightly spread and ready, stepping into his shot and not torquing. But there are many variations of funky and inconsistent mechanics  on this team......most are in the variable releases......
JSF
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Posted: 3/9/2012 3:28 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more

      Watching "In Coop We Trust" I don't believe you see the same mechanics on three-point shooting by Coop.  Shooting at a 45-degree angle instead of squaring up; fading away on many 3 attempts. These appear to be things that Coop didn't do as a frosh. At least not as pronounced.



I agree. He is way past 45 inthose pics which is why it is easy to see, even for folks who are not used to breaking each shot down. When he is money is when he is  feet slightly spread and ready, stepping into his shot and not torquing. But there are many variations of funky and inconsistent mechanics  on this team......most are in the variable releases......


I can't prove this, but he seems to be much better at shooting the three from the wing and corner than the top of the key.
OUVan
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Posted: 3/9/2012 3:36 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more

      Watching "In Coop We Trust" I don't believe you see the same mechanics on three-point shooting by Coop.  Shooting at a 45-degree angle instead of squaring up; fading away on many 3 attempts. These appear to be things that Coop didn't do as a frosh. At least not as pronounced.



He has never "squared up". Not even as a freshman and not even when he's hitting his shots.  Anectdotally I would say he's less successful the more he is facing the basket. 
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 3/9/2012 4:25 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more

      Watching "In Coop We Trust" I don't believe you see the same mechanics on three-point shooting by Coop.  Shooting at a 45-degree angle instead of squaring up; fading away on many 3 attempts. These appear to be things that Coop didn't do as a frosh. At least not as pronounced.



I agree. He is way past 45 inthose pics which is why it is easy to see, even for folks who are not used to breaking each shot down. When he is money is when he is  feet slightly spread and ready, stepping into his shot and not torquing. But there are many variations of funky and inconsistent mechanics  on this team......most are in the variable releases......


I can't prove this, but he seems to be much better at shooting the three from the wing and corner than the top of the key.


Disagree.  You can prove this.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/9/2012 5:19 PM

 
I provided links to websites. No one  successful teaches squaring up the feet any more. Period. I am not saying anything about squaring up and do not advocate it....never have..... You can go back through tape after tape of the last 4 years and look at successful shooters across the NCAA and you will not find guys squared up. YOu will also not find them with their feet perpendicular to the basket. 

The point is that everyone surrounding this team from fans to players to coaches to the press and even *gasp* on Bobcatatattack and in chatrooms is lamenting their poor offensive showing , in particular , the shooting. I provided this because I think those same folks who are complaining about the shooting need some background and knowledge while they are making those assertions... further than just looking at stats or parroting things they have seen or heard. I know it is popular to talk on message boards with no actual facts but it is also nice to see the facts and information and understand the process.

I also wanted those folks I talk to in the Convo and answer questions about coaching shooting to have some resources and examples to see. The reason for poor shooting is mechanics. There is no lack of confidence in these Cats and Groce has no rules for kids shooting the rock if they are open and have a look.  I had hoped our fans would take time to look at the websites and become more informed fans.... I have found them to be a fairly astute bunch that really like their hoops and generally thirst for information. After reading this and looking at the vids on the webbies I would hope that every one who looks at this will look at shooters in a differnt way from now on... 

I was listening to Dakich the other day and I heard the most amazing thing...The caller was saying th etypical inane callin banter. "Weaeell Dan I wuz wondering waz we watchin the same game.." Dak said the most true thing I have ever heard, ..."we were watching the same game but I guarantee we were not watching it the same way, for example >..Do you watch the ball?" Caller ..."well hell yes I watch the ball"  Dan says,  " I never watch the ball, I see the ball outta the corner of my eye but I am watching the entire floor and seeing what is happening  on the block and out at half court as the plays develope". After hearing that I realized there are a lot of "callers" out there and now listen carefully to fans and try to figure out what they are actually seeing when watching these games.

 OUr situation aint gonna change until there is someone who breaks it down and takes time to  address mechanics and help players fix their shots. This was really my reply to those folk who keep asking ......"Do they  work on shooting?"  THe Answer is yes.  A qualified YES. See rule number 1 COach Hoover preaches in his system (which  is slightly different than Tom NOrland on swish22.com or Jay at Starshooter.net) . It does not really take much work or time to fix a shot. It does take intention and effort with attention to detail.

I hope the folks asking the questions or offering the criticism of this team take some time to answer their own questions or become informed and be able to say something more than "we just can't shoot"

 


PRO SHOT SHOOTING SYSTEM COMMANDMENTS:
 
Here is the core of the Pro Shot Shooting System…
 1.Proper shooting starts with proper technique. You can do drills for 8 hours each day, but you will not get a whole lot better unless you have proper technique.
 2.The Release is responsible for 75% of the shot’s overall effectiveness.
 3.The index finger is the true key to a shot’s success.
 4.A good shot is one that’s straight. A bad shot is one that misses to the side.
 5.Follow your shot BUT do not run after it. The worst shooters run after their shot.
 6.A player should NEVER think about making the shot or the ball going in.
 7.Look at the center of the rim for full shooting effectiveness. If you look at the back at the rim, chances are you will hit the back of the rim.
 8.When open, hold the ball loose. If you hold it with a loose grip, you will get more touch.
 9.A player starts their shot where they catch it at. Because most passes are caught at the chest level, most shooters will start at their chest level including off the dribble as will.
 10.Proper use of the guide hand is important for balance and overall effectiveness.
 11.A shooter has no balance when shoulder width. The best shooters in the world are narrow shooters.
 12.Square your shooting shoulder and hip when shooting. The best shooters in the world align their shooting shoulder because you are more straight this way and it is more comfortable.
 13.Do not BEND the knees. Instead, FLEX the knees. Bending leads to stiffness and becoming slower.
 14.The Hop shot is much quicker, more rhythmic and more balanced than the 1-2 step shot.
 15.The difference between a poor shooter and a good one is THE RELEASE. The difference between a good shooter and a great one is THE SHOULDERS (how relaxed they are).
 16.To relax your shoulders fully, sway your feet forward. This will force your shoulders to sway slightly backwards.
 
 
 
 
 
THE LIES AND MYTHS OF SHOOTING…
 
You may have been told your coaches some of the following shooting beliefs. We call these the 11 Deadly Shooting Lies!
 1.Shooting is all about practicing.  If you practice, it doesn’t matter what your shot looks like.
 2.The most important element in shooting is legs.
 3.When shooting, focusing on the ball going in the basket.
 4.Release your shot with four fingers down.
 5.Bend your knees when shooting.
 6.The best shooters square their feet to the rim.
 7.Start the ball well over your head.
 8.Hold the ball tightly.
 9.Always shoot straight up and down.
 10.Make sure you are shoulder width when shooting.
 11.Always step into your shot.

Last Edited: 3/9/2012 5:20:06 PM by bornacatfan
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