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Topic: We have now lost two recruits.
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Ohio Pilot
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Posted: 4/17/2012 5:50 PM
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Should i be getting nervous yet?
Ohio69
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Posted: 4/17/2012 6:42 PM
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Well, this is typical for coaching change situations.  I don't expect we'll sign any studs this year.  Christian will need a year to establish himself.



Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 4/17/2012 7:13 PM
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This is how college basketball works. New coaches lose existing recruits but bring in their own recruits.

Not sure Christian will have to "establish" himself, just like Gary Waters didn't need to at CSU.
Ohio69
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Posted: 4/17/2012 7:17 PM
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Hey Jeff.  You're right.  He's established.  He just needs to get back in the groove recruiting up here as opposed to Texas.  

Edit:  This is a good year to load up on transfers.  With everyone back and the addition of Kadeem Green we are in a good position to have 2 guys sit out.

Although, I'd rather have Caris Lavert.
Last Edited: 4/17/2012 7:28:06 PM by Ohio69
Kevin Finnegan
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Posted: 4/17/2012 8:56 PM
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In a way, this makes it good that Groce left us this year rather than next.  Now, I still would've loved to see what he could've done with one more year, but if he left the same time as the four seniors, replacing those four scholarships could have been difficult.  Next year, we only have one to fill (previously, and possibly still, Lavert).  There really didn't seem to be any immediate need for Lavert next year.  Instead, if we can see Christian spend an entire year looking to fill five spots (this year's one, if he can't fill it, and next year's four), there's a better chance that he does something special.  If Groce left next year and we had four recruits waiting in the wings, we could have been in trouble if they all backed out at the last minute.  That could've set the program back significantly. 
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 4/17/2012 9:11 PM
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Ohio Pilot wrote:expand_more
Should i be getting nervous yet?


I don't think there is any reason to get nervous until you see who JC fills those openings with. There are still a lot of quality unsigned players out there. Both HS Seniors and Transfer players. 

We don't need anyone to step in right away anyway. 
Ohio Pilot
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Posted: 4/17/2012 9:25 PM
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Hopefully im wrong for being nervous. Cant wait for basketball season.
colobobcat66
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Posted: 4/17/2012 9:51 PM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Well, this is typical for coaching change situations. I don't expect we'll sign any studs this year. Christian will need a year to establish himself.
It is also normal to lose existing players. Everybody is just avoiding the obvious here.
JSF
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Posted: 4/17/2012 10:48 PM
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I'm past nervous and at concerned. Christian's recruiting record is iffy at best.
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 4/17/2012 10:52 PM
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I think the absolute worst-case scenario is having the recruits blindly stick to their commitments, get to campus and not like it, and then transfer. (We blow scholarships in that case that could be used on players who want to be here.) The best case scenario is having the players re-open their commitments and eventually stick it out with the new coaching staff. I think it's unlikely we'll see the best-case scenario with Bradds and/or Levert, but I'd rather have them check out their options than come here and cause chemistry problems next year or later. I think both could be great players, BTW.
Last Edited: 4/17/2012 10:58:06 PM by Mike Coleman
Alan Swank
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Posted: 4/18/2012 12:11 AM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
I'm past nervous and at concerned. Christian's recruiting record is iffy at best.


Just goes to show that many folks sign with coaches as opposed to schools.  So much for the student-athlete term.
RSBobcat
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Posted: 4/18/2012 12:14 AM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
I'm past nervous and at concerned. Christian's recruiting record is iffy at best.


If you are referring to his TCU recruiting record - that is now totally irellavent. Per the MAC - This Is A Whole New Ball Game.............
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 4/18/2012 12:49 AM
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I guess that I'm the only one who has not much respect for the former coach leaving.  We are not a stepping stone and he was beginning to get a groove on here.  Leaving?  Very wrong call.  Will be interesting to see how he fares at wherever it is that he went.

Oh.  About the nervousness re recruits now.  GET YOUR FOOTBALL SEASON ON, BLEE.
anorris
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Posted: 4/18/2012 2:22 AM
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RSBobcat wrote:expand_more
I'm past nervous and at concerned. Christian's recruiting record is iffy at best.


If you are referring to his TCU recruiting record - that is now totally irellavent. Per the MAC - This Is A Whole New Ball Game.............
I imagine he's referring to his time at Kent, which would be the most comparable situation.  I'm also concerned about recruiting, more from a character perspective.
Last Edited: 4/18/2012 2:23:06 AM by anorris
Bball Jones
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Posted: 4/18/2012 8:03 AM
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According to his high school coach, Levert will not be coming to OU! With the state tournament run and his success, Levert is getting interest from bigger programs. Also, Bradds has re-opened his recruitment as well.
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Posted: 4/18/2012 8:25 AM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
I guess that I'm the only one who has not much respect for the former coach leaving.  We are not a stepping stone .



IMO, you are in denial of reality on this.  Even programs like Dayton, which are bigger than us, are stepping stones. 
Ohio69
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Posted: 4/18/2012 10:14 AM
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Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
I guess that I'm the only one who has not much respect for the former coach leaving.  We are not a stepping stone .


IMO, you are in denial of reality on this.  Even programs like Dayton, which are bigger than us, are stepping stones. 


Agreed.  The MAC (and Ohio) are way behind.  Even compared to MVC and CAA schools let alone the A-10.  At least we've decided to try to catch up.

John Groce has that magical "it" thing going.  We'll see if "it" follows him to Illinois.  Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Coaches with the magical "it" thing going do not stay at mid-majors unless they are paid BCS-like salaries.  And even then they will still leave.  For exampe I don't think Shaka Smart will turn down Uconn in 2014 (assuming he's still at VCU).
Last Edited: 4/18/2012 10:15:00 AM by Ohio69
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 4/18/2012 10:57 AM
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Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
I guess that I'm the only one who has not much respect for the former coach leaving. We are not a stepping stone .



IMO, you are in denial of reality on this. Even programs like Dayton, which are bigger than us, are stepping stones.
I agree. Unfortunately OHIO is a stepping stone. Case in point: Duquesne. At first blush I think most of us would agree that in the world of major college athletics, Ohio would seem to have a larger program than Duquesne. However, that does not hold true in basketball. According to the Akron Beacon Journal, Duquesne offered Keith Dambrot $700,000 a year to coach their b-ball team. $700,000! Can you imagine the uproar from OHIO academia if OHIO paid it's basketball coach that kind of coin? Heck, McDavis is under pressure because we're only paying $425K.
HeHateMiami
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Posted: 4/18/2012 11:50 AM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
I'm past nervous and at concerned. Christian's recruiting record is iffy at best.


My initial concern with the hiring of Christian was based on some of his iffy past recruiting records. I became far less worried upon hearing him speak, and hearing the rest of the guys who are currently in the program start to line up behind him (through the media and Twitter). 

Signees decommit from programs. The percentage of decommits goes way up in years when coaches leave the program. The fact that we've lost two recruits isn't really as telling of Christian as much as it is the culture of NCAA hoops. Based on the successful teams that he's put together in the conference, I'm pretty confident that he knows what types of players he needs to get to create a winner on the court. I'm hopeful that he'll have even better assets to carry out that vision based on some of the inherent positives that OHIO as a university has over Kent St (again, talking campus, academics, etc., not just the basketball programs)
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 4/18/2012 12:23 PM
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If we're a stepping stone, how do you all like being satisfied with only modest success.  'cause almost every time a coach has success with us, good-bye before success beyond a small nibble at real national prominence.  Such as our minor footnote in this year's NCAA.
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 4/18/2012 1:03 PM
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     Don't necessarily count Bradds out as a Bobcat recruit. In fact, I expected him to re-open his recruitment after his junior year even if Groce had stayed. Doesn't mean he won't choose Ohio (again) after looking at new options.
Ohio69
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Posted: 4/18/2012 1:30 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
If we're a stepping stone, how do you all like being satisfied with only modest success.  'cause almost every time a coach has success with us, good-bye before success beyond a small nibble at real national prominence.  Such as our minor footnote in this year's NCAA.

Well, I'd rather be a perennial top 5 program in the country.  You gonna write the check for that to happen?

 

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Posted: 4/18/2012 1:33 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
If we're a stepping stone, how do you all like being satisfied with only modest success.  'cause almost every time a coach has success with us, good-bye before success beyond a small nibble at real national prominence.  Such as our minor footnote in this year's NCAA.


First, what you need to realize is that EVERY coaching job is a stepping stone:  mid-major to 2nd tier major conference school (e.g., Illinois, Florida St. Oklahoma).  These schools are then stepping stones to to the elite teams (Kansas, Duke, UNC, Kentucky) - do you really think that when Calipari leaves Kentucky they would consider a MAC coach?).  The elite teams are then stepping stones to national recognition (endorsements or international team gigs) and, of course, NBA.

Second, long-term success is a combination of having a strong program foundation and then getting the right coach to replace a departing coach (e.g., USC after Pete C left, Kansas after Roy left, Butler after Collier, Matta, Lickiter left).  We have a foundation for the program, now we will see if we have the right coach to pick up the flag.
giacomo
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Posted: 4/18/2012 5:47 PM
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I seriously question the sanity of somebody who thinks that Groce should have turned down the Illinois job and stayed.

If I were any of the recruits who were signed by Groce, I would contact the other teams that showed interest in me. I would only come here as a last resort. Coaches want their own players. Period.
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 4/18/2012 6:57 PM
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cc cat wrote:expand_more
If we're a stepping stone, how do you all like being satisfied with only modest success.  'cause almost every time a coach has success with us, good-bye before success beyond a small nibble at real national prominence.  Such as our minor footnote in this year's NCAA.


First, what you need to realize is that EVERY coaching job is a stepping stone:  mid-major to 2nd tier major conference school (e.g., Illinois, Florida St. Oklahoma).  These schools are then stepping stones to to the elite teams (Kansas, Duke, UNC, Kentucky) - do you really think that when Calipari leaves Kentucky they would consider a MAC coach?).  The elite teams are then stepping stones to national recognition (endorsements or international team gigs) and, of course, NBA.

Second, long-term success is a combination of having a strong program foundation and then getting the right coach to replace a departing coach (e.g., USC after Pete C left, Kansas after Roy left, Butler after Collier, Matta, Lickiter left).  We have a foundation for the program, now we will see if we have the right coach to pick up the flag.


Exactly. Every program in the country is a stepping stone. 

Illinois was a stepping stone for Bill Self to Kansas.

Kansas was a stepping stone for Roy Williams to UNC. 

Even Kentucky was a stepping stone for Rick Pitino to the Boston Celtics. 
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