Fair enough. Sort of.

Groce teams also got destroyed at Pitt, Kent and a few other places. He lost head-scratchers to teams like BG and EMU, among others. I wasn't saying never this and always that.

The difference is that Groce never seemed to go into a game thinking it was OK to lose and that his team had no chance. Mr. "that's life on the road in the MAC" O'Shea always seemed to be looking for an explanation for losing, even before a game started.

The horror of a coach holding a player accountable in public.

Tim O'Shea's biggest problem was that he wasn't from Athens like the guy before him. Program was on same path, occasional NCAA appearance but more likely to be left wondering what could have been if not for two God awful games somewhere along the line. (Further proof it's better to be the guy to replace the guy that replaced the legend than to be the guy that replaced the "legend".)

As for Groce, he fit in with LH and TOS until March. That's why he took a step forward and the others had to take a step back. (Though worth noting much easier to reach the Sweet 16 when Game 2 is against the 12 and not the 5.)

As for who did the recruiting... who put the staff together and gave the final approval on offering. It wasn't Rhodes or Kuwik.

I'm sure similar things were said when we were atop the Sagarins (believe it was after winning at Syracuse).

When TOS was coach it seemed more like Monty Pythons high flying circus than basketball! I could never figure out if there were any actual plays being called on offense, my father quit going to games with me during his tenure tiring of his act quickly.