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Topic: The MAC Gets Poached or We Do The Poaching
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cbus cat fan
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Posted: 12/13/2012 3:16 PM
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I posted this topic on the football board, but it is every bit as relevant here.

Let's face if the Big East fades into the mists of history like it appears, either the MAC is going to get poached or we will have to do the poaching. As I indicated in a previous post. I think we should be proactive and offer invites to Cincy, Memphis, Temple, UConn and Marshall. These schools all have a football interest and some of them (the Bearcats) are in desperate straits.

Otherwise, if a new conference comes to frutition from the ghosts of the Big East and Conference USA, some MAC schools are sure to be targeted. Better to be proactive than see the best schools of our history rich conference go another way.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 4:08 PM
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cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
I posted this topic on the football board, but it is every bit as relevant here.

Let's face if the Big East fades into the mists of history like it appears, either the MAC is going to get poached or we will have to do the poaching. As I indicated in a previous post. I think we should be proactive and offer invites to Cincy, Memphis, Temple, UConn and Marshall. These schools all have a football interest and some of them (the Bearcats) are in desperate straits.

Otherwise, if a new conference comes to frutition from the ghosts of the Big East and Conference USA, some MAC schools are sure to be targeted. Better to be proactive than see the best schools of our history rich conference go another way.


What if Ohio is one of the schools to be poached from the MAC? I really don't care about the MAC. I care about Ohio. Schools would just rejoin their old conferences (like CUSA) instead of joining the MAC.
Casper71
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Posted: 12/13/2012 4:29 PM
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I think a lot of us are getting caught up in details of Conference alignment and teams without really thinking what  the end result is to look like.  My guess is there will be 5 major Conferences with 14-16 teams each.  So, we are talking 70-80 schools.  After that, the other 50 or so will be left to do what they want (some kind of glorified D1-A or something).  Bottom line is PROBABLY no MAC teams ends up in the 70-80 schools the big guys want to include in their neighborhood.

Sorry guys...
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Posted: 12/13/2012 5:14 PM
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Copying my thoughts from the football version of this post:

I don't understand how you think the MAC will be poached? Do we have any schools that have the right combination of geographic footprint and fervor from the community? I can't name one school that can fit both descriptions, it's either one or the other if that. Plus no school has a big money donor or community money to make the next step up at this time to be where universities like UC and UConn would want out of fellow members. Between the lack of money and push back from the academic side at spending greater amounts of money there is no way a MAC member gets poached. 
cbus cat fan
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Posted: 12/13/2012 5:14 PM
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I for one would like to save the MAC and advance our cause as well. The conferecne is one of the oldest in the country. If we don't become proactive, we could be in for a world of hurt. Even though we have great facilities and have earned the respect of many, because of our rural demographics we will be passed over for other MAC schools should the MAC be poached. I for one don't want to sit here years from now reflecting on the glory days because there is no glory to be had. If I am on the Titanic, I want to be proactive rather than rely on the crew to save me.
cbus cat fan
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Posted: 12/13/2012 5:30 PM
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Sargentfan just saw your post. Actually I do think several MAC schools have that footprint. Akron, Buffalo and Toledo are in urban areas. Other schools like Miami have tradition. I think our strong suits are tradition, support and facilities. The problem is on a map we don't look appealing to those whose appeal is demographic advertising budgets. 

Think of this way, Marshal was essentially poached from the MAC long before the attained cool status with the movie "We are Marshall." Though not exactly an urban area, they do have the support of the local media. Now I am sure many Marshal fans think the move was a mistake because of the travel distance and Conference USA never attained the lofty goals which it set for itself.  However, they were essentially poached.

My idea for the MAC to be proactive is just what I said in my previous post. We have a long held conference structure that might appeal to those like Cincy, Marshall, Memphis, Temple and UConn. Do I think we will get them? I know one thing for sure, if we don't try and do something we will definitely be on the outside looking in, and with all of our traiditon, not to mention recent success, I don't want that to happen.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 5:54 PM
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cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Sargentfan just saw your post. Actually I do think several MAC schools have that footprint. Akron, Buffalo and Toledo are in urban areas. Other schools like Miami have tradition. I think our strong suits are tradition, support and facilities. The problem is on a map we don't look appealing to those whose appeal is demographic advertising budgets. 

Think of this way, Marshal was essentially poached from the MAC long before the attained cool status with the movie "We are Marshall." Though not exactly an urban area, they do have the support of the local media. Now I am sure many Marshal fans think the move was a mistake because of the travel distance and Conference USA never attained the lofty goals which it set for itself.  However, they were essentially poached.

My idea for the MAC to be proactive is just what I said in my previous post. We have a long held conference structure that might appeal to those like Cincy, Marshall, Memphis, Temple and UConn. Do I think we will get them? I know one thing for sure, if we don't try and do something we will definitely be on the outside looking in, and with all of our traiditon, not to mention recent success, I don't want that to happen.


I think you are ignoring the money aspect too much.  Marshall got poached because at the time it had the football pedigree and the fervent fanbase that was willing to put up the money.  None of the MAC schools you have named has any of that.  Miami is woeful in attendance for anything but Hockey but even that goes to how they are front runners, only committing to times of high success by any of their teams.  Toledo could be the only school of the other three how would be viable but they are kind of the scandalous program of the MAC with all the shadiness that has gone down there.  And then you get to us and I don't think we could ever get enough community support or more importantly support from the academic side to leave the MAC.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 6:18 PM
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I posted on the football section, but I think Toledo, Akron and Buffalo have the best chances to leave the MAC.  Buffalo has the biggest endowment, largest population and falls outside the MAC footprint. As I said there, if their top brass ever decide to move on, they could succeed I think.  I wouldn't base what could happen based on the present, but rather what could happen in the future if an alum came out of the woodwork at one of those 3 schools and gave millions(many) to make something happen. That would change the storyline pretty quickly, IMO.
Last Edited: 12/13/2012 6:20:37 PM by colobobcat66
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Posted: 12/13/2012 6:25 PM
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Sargentfan, I know what you are getting at but I still think there are MAC schools that have a lot to offer, and again if we aren't proactive we will literally be on the outs looking in, and with all of our tradiiton and recent success that would be awful.

Let's go to your footprint argument for a second. Take for example Penn State and their merger into the Big Ten. Now before the scandal, they were known for football and maybe wrestling but certainly not basketball. In the early 90s you could watch the Pittsburgh and Philly sports news and unless Penn State was in the national championship game they would barely get a mention. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are hardly college sports fans, I have friends in both cities and they marvel at the coverage college sports gets not only in Columbus but in Cleveland as well. If the Big Ten took your argument, they would have never brought in Penn State. The reason they were brought in was for tradition and alumni support.

Look at schools like Wake Forest in the ACC. They are small and not in a major metropolis. They have 4,000 some odd undergrads and only something like 2,500 grad students. Look at the Atlantic Ten in basketball St. Bonaventure and Rhode Island are two schools that receive little attention in their hometowns, yet they are in a conference that gets a half a dozen schools into the NCAA Basketball tournnament. They have tradition (especially St Bonaventure) and alumni support. What I am getting at is that we have tradition, alumni support, nice facilities and recent success. No MAC school has a fan base that travels more than one hour to football and basketball games than us. We need to sell ourselves and our conference lest we become the what ifs of some future ESPN 30 for 30 special.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 11:07 PM
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cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Sargentfan, I know what you are getting at but I still think there are MAC schools that have a lot to offer, and again if we aren't proactive we will literally be on the outs looking in, and with all of our tradiiton and recent success that would be awful.

Let's go to your footprint argument for a second. Take for example Penn State and their merger into the Big Ten. Now before the scandal, they were known for football and maybe wrestling but certainly not basketball. In the early 90s you could watch the Pittsburgh and Philly sports news and unless Penn State was in the national championship game they would barely get a mention. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are hardly college sports fans, I have friends in both cities and they marvel at the coverage college sports gets not only in Columbus but in Cleveland as well. If the Big Ten took your argument, they would have never brought in Penn State. The reason they were brought in was for tradition and alumni support.

Look at schools like Wake Forest in the ACC. They are small and not in a major metropolis. They have 4,000 some odd undergrads and only something like 2,500 grad students. Look at the Atlantic Ten in basketball St. Bonaventure and Rhode Island are two schools that receive little attention in their hometowns, yet they are in a conference that gets a half a dozen schools into the NCAA Basketball tournnament. They have tradition (especially St Bonaventure) and alumni support. What I am getting at is that we have tradition, alumni support, nice facilities and recent success. No MAC school has a fan base that travels more than one hour to football and basketball games than us. We need to sell ourselves and our conference lest we become the what ifs of some future ESPN 30 for 30 special.


Great persoective

I have felt the footprint argument is over stated with consideting schools in Olean, Blacksburgh, Clemson, etc. just to name a couple with geographic and transportation and major market situations. THere are a good number of segues off this post like Richmond supporting 2 basketball programs and the proximity of Penn State to anything.....or ....if given the opportunity could we and would OU become a national name like Penn State or would there be all sorts of counterintention and allusion to the fact that "this is Applachia"
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Posted: 12/14/2012 12:33 AM
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Well, the naysayers who say we can't make it because we are in Appalachia really don't know what they are talking about.  Do they know that little old WVU is in Appalachia?  Or that Pitt is in Appalachia.  Yes, one wag even called Pittsburgh The Paris of Appalachia.  Our bigger problem is really that big behemoth in Cowtown.  If you go to our branch cities -- Lancaster, Zanesville (Appalachia), Chillicothe (Appalachia), Ironton (Appalachia), and St. Clairsville (Appalachia) -- you'll find that most of the natives support O$U rather than their hometown university.  If these "poor Appalachian folks" were as excited about Ohio as A&M, we'd have sellouts every game.  We'd also be building that 40,000 seat stadium and would be on our way to the B12.  A&M stole our birthright.  That's the real problem not our location in these beautiful hills.  As a general rule us hillbillies are a much better lot than those obnoxious flatlanders!
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Posted: 12/14/2012 12:37 AM
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In case you're interested, here are all the counties in the Ohio Appalachian region.  Better watch out, there are more of us than you might think!
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Posted: 12/14/2012 1:05 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
If you go to our branch cities -- Lancaster, Zanesville (Appalachia), Chillicothe (Appalachia), Ironton (Appalachia), and St. Clairsville (Appalachia) -- you'll find that most of the natives support O$U rather than their hometown university.  If these "poor Appalachian folks" were as excited about Ohio as A&M, we'd have sellouts every game.


That right there is gospel!!!!

Well said....
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Posted: 12/14/2012 9:35 AM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
....After that, the other 50 or so will be left to do what they want (some kind of glorified D1-A or something). 


This has been the writing on the wall for a long, long time. The "BCS" doesn't want the so-called mid majors to take any slice of their imminent playoff pie. 

You guys are going to get the regional, intimate football you crave. Ohio fans can root even more openly for Ohio State because it will be a real minor league/major league kinda thing, like people who root for Clippers and the Indians. 

You'll get a national playoff too! And I bet that people will be much more kinder and gentler on the message board. The new D1-AA definitely will kill all the delusions of grandeur we fans sometimes have (soon to be had) of our program. I'd like to argue that these delusions added to the fun of being an Ohio fan... but I can see the harm too.

Wanting to compete on the highest national level... I've learned it's just too much for the fanbase. Losses become even more unbearable. Blame gets put on players or coaches, and then there's this need by the noble stalwarts of the program to circle the wagons against any perceived threat. 

I'm happy for you guys. It's not what I want to see, but  I've always seen things from a non-Ohian's eye. This is your state school, your region. May it play out as you see fit.




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Posted: 12/14/2012 9:59 AM
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I recently began to serve as a community advisor to a student group on the Lancaster Campus.  I actually attended there back in the early 70s.  I have noticed some changes in the atmosphere on campus.  First, it is called the Lancaster Campus instead of the Lancaster Branch (as I knew it).  Second, the bookstore sells Ohio Bobcat sports gear and not Lancaster Cougar sports gear as it was “back in the day.”  Third, faculty advisors in the group I serve are Bobcat Club members and at least one (and her family) went to Happy Valley.  Many students in the group wear Ohio gear and are surprisingly knowledgeable about football and basketball on main campus.  Is there Cowtown support on the Lancaster campus? Yes, but now there is Ohio Bobcat support there as well.  Hopefully, these changes will continue.

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Posted: 12/14/2012 10:44 AM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
I think a lot of us are getting caught up in details of Conference alignment and teams without really thinking what  the end result is to look like.  My guess is there will be 5 major Conferences with 14-16 teams each.  So, we are talking 70-80 schools.  After that, the other 50 or so will be left to do what they want (some kind of glorified D1-A or something).  Bottom line is PROBABLY no MAC teams ends up in the 70-80 schools the big guys want to include in their neighborhood.

Sorry guys...

This is exactly right. 

If the MAC were to proactively go after the out-in-the-cold Conference USA teams, it'd be akin to the band playing on while the ship sank. 

The fact of the matter is, there have now been several rounds of conference realignment, and not once has a MAC team been mentioned as a serious candidate. Conference USA has looked to the Sun Belt for replacements over the MAC, and I think that tells us all we need to know. It's just not gonna happen for us, or other schools at our level when it comes to major college football. We're about to be out in the cold, even more so than we are in the current system. 

I really, truly believe that Ohio University should give serious thought to re-allocating a large chunk of football money to basketball. Our best chance to have a nationally recognized athletic program is to follow the Butler/VCU/Gonzaga model, and in my mind that involves de-emphasizing football. The fact that the major conferences are already in the process of de-emphasizing programs of our size just makes the decision that much easier. 

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Posted: 12/14/2012 7:17 PM
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I think a lot of us are getting caught up in details of Conference alignment and teams without really thinking what  the end result is to look like.  My guess is there will be 5 major Conferences with 14-16 teams each.  So, we are talking 70-80 schools.  After that, the other 50 or so will be left to do what they want (some kind of glorified D1-A or something).  Bottom line is PROBABLY no MAC teams ends up in the 70-80 schools the big guys want to include in their neighborhood.

Sorry guys...

This is exactly right. 

If the MAC were to proactively go after the out-in-the-cold Conference USA teams, it'd be akin to the band playing on while the ship sank. 

The fact of the matter is, there have now been several rounds of conference realignment, and not once has a MAC team been mentioned as a serious candidate. Conference USA has looked to the Sun Belt for replacements over the MAC, and I think that tells us all we need to know. It's just not gonna happen for us, or other schools at our level when it comes to major college football. We're about to be out in the cold, even more so than we are in the current system. 

I really, truly believe that Ohio University should give serious thought to re-allocating a large chunk of football money to basketball. Our best chance to have a nationally recognized athletic program is to follow the Butler/VCU/Gonzaga model, and in my mind that involves de-emphasizing football. The fact that the major conferences are already in the process of de-emphasizing programs of our size just makes the decision that much easier. 



Have to say I tend to agree. Just as I was getting excited about football the last few years......

We have the ability to stay on the big stage w/basketball. We may need to make that choice.

Being a top contender on a second tier football arrangement could be fun - better chance of winning it all!

OUr hockey club team is not NCAA/Div 1 etc. - But that sure is a fun and great experience! Tickets cheap too............


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Posted: 12/14/2012 10:33 PM
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For basketball, I think we're in a good position.  The tournament allows us a shot at the national every year, so I don't really see the need to jump ship.  Besides, we're a couple title games of being in the NIT every year.

For football, I want to see what way it comes.  Do I want us to perform on the highest level?  Yes I do.  But if it means turning into a corrupt semi-pro team that has little to do with the university, I could care less about going there.  If the big schools separate from the NCAA and want to hoard the money to themselves, let them go.  I don't want to see our great University to turn into an Auburn or USC.  I wouldn't be against 1-AA.  The playoffs are a lot of fun to watch and everybody has a shot at the beginning to win it all.  They still have some great fanbases and actually give a damn about the "student athlete aspect." 
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Posted: 12/15/2012 8:23 PM
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CBS Sports story on Big East seeking new members, mentions MAC. I am not sure joining the Titanic of conferences is what we are looking for, but at least we are drawing some attention.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/21406426/big-east-football-still-has-options-amid-breakup-from-basketball-schools
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Posted: 12/15/2012 9:02 PM
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I agree with OCF.  If we really do well the region will take notice and follow.  By doing well I mean that we have to get more wins versus better teams.  Ohio A&M has done a great job of selling itself as the only university in this state.  The better we become the more people follow us.  People in the region have no problem spending money and going to C-bus to see a game, even though they never attended that school.  Why, because for years they have sold themselves as "THE" Ohio State University.  If we have an attractive product, people will come.  But don't kid yourselves, even if we drop to D-IAA/FBS in football people in the region WILL NOT come to Athens for b-ball games unless we seriously upgrade the program and start winning consistently.  I live in the region (Upper Ohio Valley) and even after last year's run in b-ball we are still viewed as an afterthought in the community.  And finally, if you don't want us to be Auburn or whoever and remain pure (whatever that means), then why not drop to D-III across the board and quit kidding ourselves.
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