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Topic: Overreacting a Bit
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brownjake43
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Posted: 12/5/2012 10:07 PM
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Just looking on different sites to see the reactions to the game tonight, at first I was with everyone else, and completely irate. Then I saw people's messages saying how dumb people were to want to play more teams like Memphis. Then I saw more messages saying how dumb people were to think we could be in the top 25. Ok we had an awful game, absolutely horrendous. But you cant honestly believe we cant play with the big boys. Did you guys watch the tournament last year at all? How about these guys Freshman year? Watch any of the OU-Louisville game last year early in the season? Seriously I have no clue how OU fans can say they dont think we should schedule teams like Memphis. Because now that we only had one scheduled and played so bad, we dont have another chance to redeem ourselves at all, and that sucks. And if we want to have a consistently good teams we got to play good teams because players want to play against the best and that helps you recruit. 

New poster by the way. Might post a little more often, I hope people on this board as some of the biggest fans continue to go to games!
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/5/2012 10:11 PM
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brownjake43 wrote:expand_more
Just looking on different sites to see the reactions to the game tonight, at first I was with everyone else, and completely irate. Then I saw people's messages saying how dumb people were to want to play more teams like Memphis. Then I saw more messages saying how dumb people were to think we could be in the top 25. Ok we had an awful game, absolutely horrendous. But you cant honestly believe we cant play with the big boys. Did you guys watch the tournament last year at all? How about these guys Freshman year? Watch any of the OU-Louisville game last year early in the season? Seriously I have no clue how OU fans can say they dont think we should schedule teams like Memphis. Because now that we only had one scheduled and played so bad, we dont have another chance to redeem ourselves at all, and that sucks. And if we want to have a consistently good teams we got to play good teams because players want to play against the best and that helps you recruit. 

New poster by the way. Might post a little more often, I hope people on this board as some of the biggest fans continue to go to games!


Welcome aboard.  I couldn't agree with you more. We need some more level-headed fans of your type.  Please post often.
JSF
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Posted: 12/5/2012 10:31 PM
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Please understand my thread was born of angry sarcasm.
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 12/5/2012 10:33 PM
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I agree.  

I guess UMass and Oklahoma give us a chance at some redemption.  (Not that I'm overlooking Oakland or any of our other opponents.)
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/5/2012 10:57 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
Please understand my thread was born of angry sarcasm.


You're as bad as I am at being misunderstood in this regard.  As a sarcastic SOB in my own right, I totally missed your sarcasm, so I'm glad you pointed it out.  I think I was so angry when I read your post that my sarcasm detector was overwhelmed by noise in the circut.  
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/5/2012 11:59 PM
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Didn't see it but if we played as soft and passive as many say, well, last year's results don't mean squat.  Squat and I'd be pretty irate.  Chance to show up--blown.
Ohio69
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Posted: 12/6/2012 9:23 AM
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Welcome to the rollercoaster dude.
cc-cat
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Posted: 12/6/2012 10:08 AM
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RE: Memphis - To paraphrase Yogi Berra - 60% of basketball is about match-ups and the other 60% is shooting.  We have shot poorly the past two games (losses).  If we shoot poorly, we struggle.  We especially struggle if we can not out "athletic" the other team.   Last year in the tournament we shot pretty well, and were able to match-up athletically (except against UNC - where the shooting almost pulled us out).  Against Memphis, they simply had the athletes that would not allow us to overcome our shooting. 

Not sure how Oklahoma is on the "athletic" gauge. 
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/6/2012 10:17 AM
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Disagree on them having better athletes than we had.  I believe Coach Christian's post-game comments (paraphrase) : "We play that sloppy and we'll make almost any team look like great athletes." 

Edit: In context JC seemed to be referring specitically to our sloppy passing which led to many easy steals and fast break baskets.  In essence he was not willing to attribute those steals to Memphis' athleticism as much as to our sloppy passing. 
Last Edited: 12/6/2012 10:22:00 AM by OhioCatFan
Chuck_IV
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Posted: 12/6/2012 10:22 AM
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While I agree with the OP, remember there IS one glaring change between this year and last.... the coach.

The one thing I noticed last night was that when we started to play stupid, last year Groce would try to reign in the stupidity a bit. That's not to say he was successfull all the time, but it would usually help. I saw none of that last night. We started playing stupid later in the first half and it seemed like the same issues contiued in the second half.
Last Edited: 12/6/2012 10:23:34 AM by Chuck_IV
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/6/2012 10:28 AM
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I could be wrong here, but I got the impression that JC kind of wanted this team to suffer the consequences of playing stupid, as you put it.  I think he may be dealing with some attitudes that need a bit of adjustment.  I'm not saying that he tried to lose the game, just that he wasn't in crucial game coaching mode but more hard knocks schooling mode. 
brownjake43
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Posted: 12/6/2012 10:29 AM
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I did not see Groce do this much at all. When we start to play really bad offensively then it basically comes down to the Cooper Factor, and if he works his magic then we get back in the flow, if he doesn't then we lose. People are forgetting we did lose 7 games last year, and 6/7 were to lesser competition (unless you want to take out Akron) then 5/7. This was an awful loss, but I like our chances at getting back on our feet and finishing with a better record than we had last year at 25-6. That will still mean we have to win the MAC tournament though. 
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 12/6/2012 10:40 AM
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cc cat wrote:expand_more
RE: Memphis - To paraphrase Yogi Berra - 60% of basketball is about match-ups and the other 60% is shooting.  We have shot poorly the past two games (losses).  If we shoot poorly, we struggle.  We especially struggle if we can not out "athletic" the other team.   Last year in the tournament we shot pretty well, and were able to match-up athletically (except against UNC - where the shooting almost pulled us out).  Against Memphis, they simply had the athletes that would not allow us to overcome our shooting. 

Not sure how Oklahoma is on the "athletic" gauge. 


Exactly.
Ozcat
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Posted: 12/6/2012 2:07 PM
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I thought Memphis was much more athletic than we were.  They were able to matchup and contain every player on our roster other than DJ.  Remember, they were ranked #16 before the season started.  They've got loads of talent, and they had a big man that we had no answer for.  Not too mention that they had some serious wingspan out there.  They were very long.  They turned us into a jump shooting team, and we had a terrible shooting performance.  Not the recipe for success.

This team will struggle against any team that has a legitimate big man (6'8"+, 235+).  Jon is an above average defender, and he played well last night, but he doesn't have the mass to bang with guys as big as Goodwin.  The good news is that the MAC doesn't really have any guys who fit this bill (don't give me Zeke - we tend to handle him pretty well).

I'm not worried about this team at all.  We're not, and never were, a top 25 team.  We're firmly in the 35-55 range.  If we play smart and sound basketball, we can play with anyone though.  And if the matchups are right, we can beat good teams.  Memphis was a bad matchup.  I watched Oklahoma play on Tuesday, and they appear to be a bad matchup as well.

We're still the class of the MAC.  Right there with Akron.  It'll be a good battle, but OUr goal of winning the MAC is still alive and well.
Last Edited: 12/6/2012 2:11:43 PM by Ozcat
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 12/6/2012 2:11 PM
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Ozcat wrote:expand_more
I thought Memphis was much more athletic than we were.  They were able to matchup and contain every player on our roster other than DJ.  Remember, they were ranked #16 before the season started.  They've got loads of talent, and they had a big man that we had no answer for.  Not too mention that they had some serious wingspan out there.  They were very long.  They turned us into a jump shooting team, and we had a terrible shooting performance.  Not the recipe for success.

This team will struggle against any team that has a legitimate big man (6'8"+, 235+).  Jon is an above average defender, and he played well last night, but he doesn't have the mass to bang with guys as big as Goodwin.  The good news is that the MAC doesn't really have any guys who fit this bill (don't give me Zeke - we tend to handle him pretty well).

I'm not worried about this team at all.  We're not, and never were, a top 25 team.  We're firmly in the 35-55 range.  If we play smart and sound basketball, we can play with anyone though.  And if the matchups are right, we can beat good teams.  Memphis was a bad matchup.  I watched Oklahoma play on Tuesday, and they appear to be a bad matchup as well.


Good analysis/summary, Oz.
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Posted: 12/6/2012 2:34 PM
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Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
I thought Memphis was much more athletic than we were.  They were able to matchup and contain every player on our roster other than DJ.  Remember, they were ranked #16 before the season started.  They've got loads of talent, and they had a big man that we had no answer for.  Not too mention that they had some serious wingspan out there.  They were very long.  They turned us into a jump shooting team, and we had a terrible shooting performance.  Not the recipe for success.

This team will struggle against any team that has a legitimate big man (6'8"+, 235+).  Jon is an above average defender, and he played well last night, but he doesn't have the mass to bang with guys as big as Goodwin.  The good news is that the MAC doesn't really have any guys who fit this bill (don't give me Zeke - we tend to handle him pretty well).

I'm not worried about this team at all.  We're not, and never were, a top 25 team.  We're firmly in the 35-55 range.  If we play smart and sound basketball, we can play with anyone though.  And if the matchups are right, we can beat good teams.  Memphis was a bad matchup.  I watched Oklahoma play on Tuesday, and they appear to be a bad matchup as well.


Good analysis/summary, Oz.


Analysis seems correct to me too -- in a way.  Last year, Louisville, South Florida and UNC had large guys that we had problems with and the games were all close games.  I'm curious about opinions on that.
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Posted: 12/6/2012 2:56 PM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
I thought Memphis was much more athletic than we were.  They were able to matchup and contain every player on our roster other than DJ.  Remember, they were ranked #16 before the season started.  They've got loads of talent, and they had a big man that we had no answer for.  Not too mention that they had some serious wingspan out there.  They were very long.  They turned us into a jump shooting team, and we had a terrible shooting performance.  Not the recipe for success.

This team will struggle against any team that has a legitimate big man (6'8"+, 235+).  Jon is an above average defender, and he played well last night, but he doesn't have the mass to bang with guys as big as Goodwin.  The good news is that the MAC doesn't really have any guys who fit this bill (don't give me Zeke - we tend to handle him pretty well).

I'm not worried about this team at all.  We're not, and never were, a top 25 team.  We're firmly in the 35-55 range.  If we play smart and sound basketball, we can play with anyone though.  And if the matchups are right, we can beat good teams.  Memphis was a bad matchup.  I watched Oklahoma play on Tuesday, and they appear to be a bad matchup as well.


Good analysis/summary, Oz.


Analysis seems correct to me too -- in a way.  Last year, Louisville, South Florida and UNC had large guys that we had problems with and the games were all close games.  I'm curious about opinions on that.


I think Offutt needs to play well in these types of games as he has the athleticism to compete. He had a bad night offensively (7 points on 3-12 shooting) and defensively against Memphis. In two of the three games you listed from last year, he had great games,

Louisville - Siva had a horrible game, 0-7 from the field. Cards shoot just 26% from three. Offutt with a so-so night (7 points). Ohio gets beat on the boards 42-34.
USF - Offutt scores 21 points on 7-9 shooting including 4-4 on threes. Ohio still got pounded on the boards 33-25.
UNC - Marshall was out for UNC. Ohio got hammered on the boards (63-30) but was offset by great night from Offutt. He was 10-18 (6-10 on threes) for 26 points. Kellogg helped by going 4-5 on threes.
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Posted: 12/6/2012 3:06 PM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Analysis seems correct to me too -- in a way.  Last year, Louisville, South Florida and UNC had large guys that we had problems with and the games were all close games.  I'm curious about opinions on that.

I didn't see the Louisville game, so I won't comment.  But, in my opinion, againt USF and UNC, the reason we did well was pretty simple - Offut shot the ball well.

Against USF (who I think we were just plain better than), their bigs held Keely, Ivo and Smith to a COMBINED 8 points.  We won that game because a) DJ and Offut played great games and b) USF couldn't knock down a 3 to save their life.  Our big guys were handled by their bigs most of that game.

Against UNC, Zeller and Henson ate us up.  We were competitive in that game because a) Offut played great and shot the ball well and b) OUr defense was able to turn them over like crazy, likely because they were missing the floor general to injury.  And, we are good at causing turnovers.

Offut was off last night.  Memphis knew we didn't have anything that resembled an inside game, so they locked down the perimeter.  DJ was able to create, but we know he's special.  Offut was able to slash, but could not finish and we had nobody able to help clean up underneath.  We lost the turnover margin for the first time in forever.  We won't win many games when that is the case, as it's a huge part of what we do.  And, I don't see this team winning very many rebounding battles.  It's not because we're lazy either.  It will be interesting to see if our guards start crashing the boards more.  I seem to remember JC's Kent teams rebounding very well, and they were typically guard oriented teams as well.
Ozcat
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Posted: 12/6/2012 3:11 PM
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In other news, it appears Ted and I are sharing a brain . . .
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Posted: 12/6/2012 11:12 PM
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Siva was playing first game back after injury
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Posted: 12/7/2012 1:38 AM
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We cannot rebound worth a damn.
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Posted: 12/7/2012 9:44 AM
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I watched the Memphis game and agree that OU played very poorly. Too many turnovers, poor passing, no inside game, etc. etc. I also thought that the referees were leaning to the Memphis side. I typically would not make a statement like that, however, I thought it was obvious in this game. Also, the CBS announcers were Memphis biased ( more so than the referees) and that was very annoying. Those observations are no incuses for the poor play. OU did not control the tempo of the game, like they did in the NCAA tournment last year. They played teams with more size and athleticism last year and won their games.

Sometimes it takes time for a new coach to adjust to his players and the players to the coach.
Still early to make adjustments and make the season a success.
brownjake43
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Posted: 12/7/2012 12:06 PM
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I agree the CBS announcers were obnoxious, they obviously have never seen us play before that game, they were acting as if we had no chance from the very beginning. They must have missed the tourny last year or something haha. 

But I still believe we can play with any team this year, one horrible game doesn't change my mind on that subject. UNC even without Kendall Marshall had 3 pro players out there and we took them to OT with our best player shooting 3-20. I do not see us losing to Oklahoma, and I see us going 25-6 in the regular season and winning the MAC tournament. Lets hope this was our bad week of the year similar to the Toledo/EMU week last year, it'd be nice to have that out of the way early. 
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Posted: 12/9/2012 10:40 PM
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Was at the game, and agree that we simply didn't match up well with Memphis.   Customer of mine is beat writer for Memphis and agreed, not that that means anything.   I'm not panicking, and think we are a solid 35-55 as Ozcat has stated.   We matched up well with Michigan in tourney last year, didn't match up here.   We should be alive and kicking in March barring football team injuries.  
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Posted: 12/9/2012 11:00 PM
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west side cat wrote:expand_more
We should be alive and kicking in March barring football team injuries.  


I think we will do better if we actually get some "football" injuries, of the "bruised" variety, from some inside banging.............
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