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Topic: Is this the year....
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FearLeon
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Posted: 2/10/2013 8:30 AM
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....a Mid-Major wins a National Championship?

There just isn't a dominant team this year. 
The field is wide, wide open. 

Pataskala
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Posted: 2/10/2013 9:40 AM
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I thought you were going to ask if this is the year the MAC gets two teams in the NCAA tourney.  Akron's RPI is at 54 and right now it looks like an upper 40 RPI gets an at-large bid.  If Akron wins out until the MACC game, they could be in line for one. 

Yeah, anything's possible this season.  There are five non-big 6 schools with top 20 RPIs (NM, Gonz, Butler, Colo St and Belmont), so they should get pretty good seeds (NM might be a 2).  All it takes is 6 wins at the right time.
shabamon
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Posted: 2/10/2013 11:36 AM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Yeah, anything's possible this season.  There are five non-big 6 schools with top 20 RPIs (NM, Gonz, Butler, Colo St and Belmont), so they should get pretty good seeds (NM might be a 2).  All it takes is 6 wins at the right time.


Gonzaga, New Mexico, and Butler could make a deep run in the tournament. I can't say I see it happening for Colorado State or Belmont. I also think UNLV and San Diego State could put a run together, too.
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Posted: 2/10/2013 12:33 PM
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Gonzaga, Butler and New Mexico are not midmajors.  If they are, then so is Miami (FL),  UNLV and a whole bunch of other schools.  Ohio is a midmajor, and it has very little in common with the schools listed above.  Their programs are closer to Duke or Georgetown than they are to Ohio and Northern ILL. 
Pataskala
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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:45 PM
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brucecuth wrote:expand_more
Gonzaga, Butler and New Mexico are not midmajors.  If they are, then so is Miami (FL),  UNLV and a whole bunch of other schools.  Ohio is a midmajor, and it has very little in common with the schools listed above.  Their programs are closer to Duke or Georgetown than they are to Ohio and Northern ILL. 


They're in non-big 6 conferences, so they fit the category, no matter how good they are.  Butler may leave in a couple years when the A10 replaces the Big Least.  But they're still considered "mid-major."  (Some have taken the MWC out because of their RPI this year.  I think that's foolish, and short-sighted.)
Buster
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Posted: 2/10/2013 2:56 PM
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Well, we already know Kron is in the #finalfour
JSF
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Posted: 2/10/2013 5:43 PM
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I think the reason things seem to wide open is because there are a lot of strong major programs who can win the title. Not to say a Gonzaga can't sneak in, but the top of the nation is very strong this year.
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Posted: 2/10/2013 9:00 PM
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Sorry Pataskala,  Please look at the Mid Major Top 25...you will not find either New Mexico or Butler listed, and it is not because they have suddenly become small colleges!    Even Seth Davis has said we should quit referring to the Zags and the Dogs as mid majors, and that the MWC is not a mid major conference.  I would further suggest that Missouri Valley Conference members such as Creighton are not mid majors either.

Actually, the whole "mid major" thing is outdated and inaccurate.  Not perfect, but a far more accurate differentiation, is 1-bid conferences vs. multi-bid conferences...
OU_Country
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Posted: 2/11/2013 10:47 AM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Gonzaga, Butler and New Mexico are not midmajors.  If they are, then so is Miami (FL),  UNLV and a whole bunch of other schools.  Ohio is a midmajor, and it has very little in common with the schools listed above.  Their programs are closer to Duke or Georgetown than they are to Ohio and Northern ILL. 


They're in non-big 6 conferences, so they fit the category, no matter how good they are.  Butler may leave in a couple years when the A10 replaces the Big Least.  But they're still considered "mid-major."  (Some have taken the MWC out because of their RPI this year.  I think that's foolish, and short-sighted.)


I've gotta ask - why does everyone use this phrase regarding the Big East?  As it relates to hoops, they've been the standard bearer for a very long time.  And I agree with bruce -- we are a midmajor (hate the term, but whatever), Butler and the Zags are not.

brucecuth wrote:expand_more
Sorry Pataskala,  Please look at the Mid Major Top 25...you will not find either New Mexico or Butler listed, and it is not because they have suddenly become small colleges!    Even Seth Davis has said we should quit referring to the Zags and the Dogs as mid majors, and that the MWC is not a mid major conference.  I would further suggest that Missouri Valley Conference members such as Creighton are not mid majors either.

Actually, the whole "mid major" thing is outdated and inaccurate.  Not perfect, but a far more accurate differentiation, is 1-bid conferences vs. multi-bid conferences...

I like this differentiation.  Now, find a way to get the networks to use this terminology.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 2/11/2013 11:20 AM
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I would not like the networks to propogate the idea that conferences are "1 bid" as that really seems like it would get inthe mind of the selection committee and give them an out when a conference champ with a great RPI falters in the tourney and ends up without the auto bid.

Bilas and Lunardi. saying "They are a 1 bid conference" and not entertaining the bubbleteams  because we have now given them the ability to do that is not a move forward for the NON Big 6 conferences and their members.
OU_Country
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Posted: 2/11/2013 12:45 PM
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bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
I would not like the networks to propogate the idea that conferences are "1 bid" as that really seems like it would get inthe mind of the selection committee and give them an out when a conference champ with a great RPI falters in the tourney and ends up without the auto bid.

Bilas and Lunardi. saying "They are a 1 bid conference" and not entertaining the bubbleteams  because we have now given them the ability to do that is not a move forward for the NON Big 6 conferences and their members.


Excellent point!
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Posted: 2/11/2013 2:45 PM
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We have this argument on here at least once a year about how to define "mid major."  I agree with the definition used by the Mid Major Top 25.  The Atlantic 10 and Mountain West are not included as mid majors.  I would argue that the Missouri Valley shouldn't either.  
bornacatfan
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Posted: 2/11/2013 6:23 PM
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Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
We have this argument on here at least once a year about how to define "mid major."  I agree with the definition used by the Mid Major Top 25.  The Atlantic 10 and Mountain West are not included as mid majors.  I would argue that the Missouri Valley shouldn't either.  


hmmmmm if those 3 conferences are not mid majors but high majors......

I am not a math major but subtract the big 6 and those 3  conferences and it seems like the band of width that constitutes MIDs is getting pretty narrow when you take out what is considered LOW major. 341 schools right?
anorris
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Posted: 2/11/2013 8:10 PM
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It's hard to delineate... I personally am fond of looking at the money - http://www.bbstate.com/info/schools-hoopsbudget.

I'd draw a line at around 3 million, perhaps another around 1.25 million for "low" if you want to delineate that. But there are exceptions to every rule for varying reasons. For example, the Ivy, which I would call solidly mid-major have tiny budgets since they don't award athletic scholarships.
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Posted: 2/12/2013 8:45 AM
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Pretty sure that OCF's last rank on the oil tender scow of his was "mid-major swabbie".
100%Cat
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Posted: 2/12/2013 8:46 AM
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To answer the original question: no. I’d love to see it, I thought Butler vs Duke was maybe the best chance to see that happen a few years back, but they came up just short. It’s extremely rare for a mid major program to reach the Elite 8, let alone the Final 4. Get to the Final 4 and you still have to win 2 more games for a national championship. A mid major beating likely 6 “Big 6” teams in a row…I don’t think it would happen this year. One or two games, playing a team a mid major matches up well with is one thing…six straight is another beast all together. It would take a great draw and probably some upsets across the given team’s bracket to make it possible. 
It took several key things for us to make the Sweet 16 last year. A good draw/matchup against Michigan, South Florida upset, then we’re a free throw away from the Elite 8 because UNC was missing their starting PG. All those factors only got us to the Sweet 16…4 more wins from a national title.
OU_Country
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Posted: 2/12/2013 10:14 AM
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100%Cat wrote:expand_more
To answer the original question: no. I’d love to see it, I thought Butler vs Duke was maybe the best chance to see that happen a few years back, but they came up just short. It’s extremely rare for a mid major program to reach the Elite 8, let alone the Final 4. Get to the Final 4 and you still have to win 2 more games for a national championship. A mid major beating likely 6 “Big 6” teams in a row…I don’t think it would happen this year. One or two games, playing a team a mid major matches up well with is one thing…six straight is another beast all together. It would take a great draw and probably some upsets across the given team’s bracket to make it possible. 
It took several key things for us to make the Sweet 16 last year. A good draw/matchup against Michigan, South Florida upset, then we’re a free throw away from the Elite 8 because UNC was missing their starting PG. All those factors only got us to the Sweet 16…4 more wins from a national title.


We were the made free throw away from three more wins from a national title.  (maybe you meant the same thing?)
OU_Country
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Posted: 2/12/2013 10:37 AM
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anorris wrote:expand_more
It's hard to delineate... I personally am fond of looking at the money - http://www.bbstate.com/info/schools-hoopsbudget.

I'd draw a line at around 3 million, perhaps another around 1.25 million for "low" if you want to delineate that. But there are exceptions to every rule for varying reasons. For example, the Ivy, which I would call solidly mid-major have tiny budgets since they don't award athletic scholarships.


There are a few schools with very big budgets, notably Auburn & Depaul that haven't gotten much in the way of ROI for awhile.
100%Cat
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Posted: 2/12/2013 11:44 AM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
To answer the original question: no. I’d love to see it, I thought Butler vs Duke was maybe the best chance to see that happen a few years back, but they came up just short. It’s extremely rare for a mid major program to reach the Elite 8, let alone the Final 4. Get to the Final 4 and you still have to win 2 more games for a national championship. A mid major beating likely 6 “Big 6” teams in a row…I don’t think it would happen this year. One or two games, playing a team a mid major matches up well with is one thing…six straight is another beast all together. It would take a great draw and probably some upsets across the given team’s bracket to make it possible. 
It took several key things for us to make the Sweet 16 last year. A good draw/matchup against Michigan, South Florida upset, then we’re a free throw away from the Elite 8 because UNC was missing their starting PG. All those factors only got us to the Sweet 16…4 more wins from a national title.


We were the made free throw away from three more wins from a national title.  (maybe you meant the same thing?)


Either way...a made free throw and 3 more wins or just 4 more wins past the Sweet 16.  Need 6 wins for a national title (7 if you're in a play-in game), we won 2.

Also factor in that for a mid major to do this, they also would likely have to win the conference tournament just to get in.  There's likely 3 more wins, so you're looking at needing to win 9 straight sudden death games.  Not likely to happen.
giacomo
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Posted: 2/12/2013 5:10 PM
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If you pay your coach more than a million dollars a year, you're not a mid major.
OUVan
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Posted: 2/12/2013 6:40 PM
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anorris wrote:expand_more
It's hard to delineate... I personally am fond of looking at the money - http://www.bbstate.com/info/schools-hoopsbudget.

I'd draw a line at around 3 million, perhaps another around 1.25 million for "low" if you want to delineate that. But there are exceptions to every rule for varying reasons. For example, the Ivy, which I would call solidly mid-major have tiny budgets since they don't award athletic scholarships.


That's a pretty good line.

By the way, if you think money spent doesn't directly affect success take a look at the MAC list and then take a look at the current MAC standings:

http://www.bbstate.com/info/schools-hoopsbudget&c=MAC
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Posted: 2/14/2013 1:08 PM
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Buster wrote:expand_more
Well, we already know Kron is in the #finalfour


BUSTER! You cant do that in the snack room, pal? 
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