Is he a good coach on the Mac level?  Yes

Is better than most on the MAC level?  Yes

Does that matter to me if he's too simple to coach his way into competing on a national level the way Groce clearly proved he could?  Absolutely matters not one bit!

Did I have a problem with Groce's team playing soft throughout the course of a season. Absolutely yes

Does that matter to me when Groce has Ohio's name ringing out across the nation in march?  Absolutely not one bit!

Would I prefer that Groce finish 2nd, 3rd or even lower in the regular season as long as he advances in the big dance.  Yes!

Would i prefer we continually dominate the Mac and get run off the court in the 1st round of the big dance to my previous scenario?  Absolutely not

Is the Groce scenario I mentioned the optimum for what I'd want.  No!

Will Christian teams in the future be better than this one under his guidance?  The team may not be the product on the floor most likely will be....until we play teams that are on the national stage.

These are the main points that have been brought up so far and mainly what I want to be clear about.

EVERY single team in the big dance has to take how they match up into account for every team they play against so I don't want to hear this nonsense of "if this wouldn't have happened and if this did happen...."

The ONLY thing that stands up to time is who did it and who didn't do it.

Sometimes (as in most times) you win because you are better than even your own fans give you credit for being.

Groce has a track record of being just that.  Christian has track record of not.  That speaks to being able to coach your way into a win even talent suggests you aren't better.

That's why I use the term "dime a dozen coach" he's a retread with no proven ability to ever win a game unless his team is better or the other team has an off night. To his credit he can recruit very well on the MAC level as far as inside talent goes.

Sidenote*   Ask anyone on the national landscape about Ohio's loss to BGSU last January as they prepared for their sweet 16 game..see what response you get.  That should tell you how much that matters.

If you want a coach/team that dominates a conference that doesn't register a pebble's worth of a ripple in the ocean that is the the college basketball scene only to get wasted whenever the national spotlight shines then that's your choice.

I don't have such low expectations however.

That is why I stated that Christian should have maintained what Groce did with these seniors instead of trying to put his stamp on this year's team.   I would be saying something very different if Christian had taken over a program that was similar to the one that Groce took over.


I hope this clears things up --- all are free to disagree of course.


P.S. no...none of knows for a fact that this team won't have another special run in March ...we'll have to wait and see if my words prove prophetic.


Only to have those people who insist it's 100% about the match up (just provide me with proof that Belmont and Memphis would have kicked Michigan and South Florida's butt too if you don't mind)

Then that's truly sad on at least a few different levels  :-)

Gonna be a long next 10 years for Wilson Record Holder and his brethren railing against a coach who is currently 20-7 and 10-1 in the MAC and who has a track record of repeating that type of result.

Long......

First, your original post was diffuse, rambling.

Second, what are you talking about?

It was too address several different viewpoints that were expressed about Groce, Christian and the basketball team (namely the seniors) that were expressed by several different posters.

If you can find a way that addresses several different viewpoints and opinions about several topics and subtopics that is covered in one posting then please have at it.

I believe I even mention the intent of my post about halfway through said posting.

I can either pick out every single person's viewpoint and reply to it individually or I can post the way  I just did.


Take from it what you will. Leave behind what you won't

Just like last year... this team has the same players.
Just like last year... when the 3-pointers don't fall in we tend to lose bad.
Just like last year... when the 3-pointers don't fall in we don't make the seemingly proper changes to get better or closer looks at the basket.
Just like last year... we had 20 wins going into the Bracketbuster.

Just like last year... we have had huge expectations and with each loss comes huge disappointment.


Unlike last year... we have only 1 MAC loss (compared to 4 at this point last year) (that loss is a legit bubble team).
Unlike last year... we are in position to win the MAC Regular season title.


Unlike last year... I am confident we will make the MAC Championship game.  That will put us 1 game and win away from the Big Dance...

And if that's supremely disappointing to you, you should become a fan of one of the following:

Duke
Kansas
Kentucky