It would depend on how well Christian would have navigated the Big 12, because Groce would still be here and probably be on the hot seat (on BobcatAttack) for being unable to surpass Akron.

Interesting opinion, but Butler made two national title games with a coach like that. Anyway, I saw plenty of times on camera where JC got in his players faces. 

Remember when people complained about Groce getting too excited?



Now you're just trolling.

Being at or near the top of the MAC next year does not sound unreasonable, significantly because the conference is so bad this year...may be the same next year.

Putting a greater emph on winning conference games vs. non-conference games?  Really?  I find this dichotomy to be very strange.  Shouldn't there be strong emphasis on winning the next game, regardless of what type of game it is?

I apologize if this was meant as a joke, but if it was serious, this is bad.

That's like saying "these bouncers being slugged in the face NEVER would have happened on Christian's watch." You can't honestly think that Groce would have somehow prevented this.

Cool, so he would have prevented it...as long as it happened within the last 18 days.

FOr a fair amount of his tenure Groce had strict control of his players social media. From banning the guys from comments and pix early in his tenure with the MoPears incendent to putting cellphones in a box the night before games he had a pretty tight policy on social media interaction the entire time he was here. The prior administration had a much tighter reign on downtown antics and a much better relationship the proprietors giving them the ability to defuse a lot of what could happen on Court Street before it did....but then they did not recruit the character and family backgrounds that Groce tends to.

just an observation to clarify the repartee.

What a complicated couple of threads. 

First of all, every coach will have a different flavor ranging from Bob Knight/Bob Huggins to a Jimmy Valvano and everything in between.  Obviously, Groce is on the Valvano side of the ledger and JC leaning towards the other side.  As an athlete my primary coach was total vanilla.  Good guy, solid coach, but a man of little emotion and few words.  He was solid, knowledgable and consistent, but my personal preferance would've been someone with a little more rah-rah.  But you ask 100 different people and everyone will want a different flavor.

Secondly, I'm not so sure JG would've done any better this year than JC has this year.  You always wonder if the lockerroom will still listen after 3-4 trips around the block with the same voice/same guys?  You wonder if the rah-rah type coach can pull out the same, "it's us against world" speeches and if they would still work the 2nd or 3rd time around, hence why so few teams repeat?

I think JC will have a much small standard deviation with his style, than with a JG style.  I think solid JC types will have more 20 win seasons than a JG will, but JG will have more ocassional Sweet 16 runs/wins over big programs and dramatic MAC Championship runs. On the other hand,  I think JC will have fewer "dud" seasons than a JG.  

Finally, I think JC was a solid hire.  A lower risk/moderate to high reward type coach.  Getting the young up-n-coming assistant is more of a high risk/unknown reward type higher.  Occassionally you'll hit a JG, then you may hit a couple total flops who go nowhere.    I don't think you'll ever see JC coaching Duke or IU one day, but neither do I think he'll fall to being an assistant either, hence my saying his reward ratio is capped out at something like he did at Kent State.  Lots of solid winning, but little/no big-time winning.  On the other hand, I think you may see JG coaching Duke/IU or even the Pacers one day, then again he may end up  falling back to say the A-10.  If anything in recent memory, JC is probably a higher grade of a Larry Hunter.  Solid types, but their niche is going to be in these mid-major conferences.

In the end, JC was a lower risk hire than a Boals or any other assistant who you didn't know what you were going to get out of them.  With JC, you're getting what you thought you were going to get.  Not great, but good to very good.  With a Boals type you could've got anything from Terrible-to-the Next JG--no way of knowing which one.That was a philosophical choice JS had to make and I can't say that I wouldn't have made the same decision had I been in his shoes. 

With all this said, I think JC is who he is personality and style wise and you pretty much can expect winning 17+ games a year with him.  Like buying a Honda Accord or Toyota Camery--few frills or Wow-factor, but very reliable.  It retrospect, it appears JG developed into a Lexus.  Hunter was a Chevy or Ford and TOS was a _____.  Will he produce some historic wins or NCAA runs, well that hasn't been his track record, but he'll probably also ensure we won't be at the bottom of MAC East Standings at any point like JG and TOS threw in as well. 

No.

It was a crappy MAC conference last year, too...and Groce lost 5 MAC games.  This team struggles big time on the road...just like last year's team.  Who was last season's signature win in the regular season, Northern Iowa?  They only lost 14 games last year.  Let's not forget, last year's team lost at EMU, Kent, BG, and Toledo.  We finished third in a less-than-spectacular MAC before we got hot.

Let's not get carried away (too late for many) with the expectations here.  Is this a talented team?  Yes.  Does it have experience?  Yes.  Can it play at a high enough level to beat top 25 teams?  Sure.  But it's also a flawed team, with the same flaws as last year's team.  We rely on perimeter shooting way too much to be consistently great. 

There is no way, NONE, that you can say with John Groce this year we would be any better than a 1-loss MAC team, needing to win in Cleveland to get an 11-13 seed in the NCAA tourney.  

Some of you need to stay away from the keyboard while drinking.

This!



And this. 

As proven over and over with stats posted by others, if we shoot well, we can play with anyone.  If we don't, we struggle/lose.  Neither Groce nor Christian are taking the shots. And from what I saw, as an example, Kellogg had clear looks to start the game.  When he missed his first three, I turned to my son and said it could be a long night.  Not calling out Nick, just an example of having shots fall or not.  So here's a news flash.  We shoot like we did Saturday versus Akron on Wednesday and we will lose.  I it won't matter if Groce, Christian or Nee is coaching.