Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Convocation Center to get 15.3 Million
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Deciduous Forest Cat
6/26/2023 8:06 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I have never been a fan of the plain grey block at each end of the floor and that goes back to when drab was cool. :)
THIS! horrible decision a long time ago to make the walls around the floor look like a public restroom.
They are functional though as they are acoustic block, hence the holes.

And I figured the bulk of this money will go to dorms. They have never had a real upgrade and their is still millions to be done on the Super structure of the building.
Yes, but going with a red brick look to coordinate with campus would have been much groovier than the gray semigloss.
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SBH
6/26/2023 9:30 AM
I wonder how many fans of other successful mid-major basketball programs are worried about the color and texture of the construction materials used in their 50-year-old arenas.

Is this why top big men are choosing the big bucks over the red bricks of athens?
Last Edited: 6/26/2023 9:32:55 AM by SBH
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Deciduous Forest Cat
6/26/2023 10:41 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
I wonder how many fans of other successful mid-major basketball programs are worried about the color and texture of the construction materials used in their 50-year-old arenas.

Is this why top big men are choosing the big bucks over the red bricks of athens?
probably.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
6/26/2023 10:42 AM
Yes, of course this qualifies as nitpicking, but it also qualifies as a low hanging fruit opportunity to do something unique and fix one of the few aesthetic flaws in an otherwise beautiful building.
Last Edited: 6/26/2023 10:45:12 AM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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BillyTheCat
6/26/2023 11:09 AM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Yes, of course this qualifies as nitpicking, but it also qualifies as a low hanging fruit opportunity to do something unique and fix one of the few aesthetic flaws in an otherwise beautiful building.
I can give you quite a few more examples of aesthetic flaws than acoustic block. Lets start with the water stains running down the asbestos tiles along the back walls of the interior.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
6/26/2023 11:20 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Yes, of course this qualifies as nitpicking, but it also qualifies as a low hanging fruit opportunity to do something unique and fix one of the few aesthetic flaws in an otherwise beautiful building.
I can give you quite a few more examples of aesthetic flaws than acoustic block. Lets start with the water stains running down the asbestos tiles along the back walls of the interior.
And the 6,000 empty seats.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
6/26/2023 1:05 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Yes, of course this qualifies as nitpicking, but it also qualifies as a low hanging fruit opportunity to do something unique and fix one of the few aesthetic flaws in an otherwise beautiful building.
I can give you quite a few more examples of aesthetic flaws than acoustic block. Lets start with the water stains running down the asbestos tiles along the back walls of the interior.
Those are character lines.
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CatsUp
6/26/2023 2:11 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Yes, of course this qualifies as nitpicking, but it also qualifies as a low hanging fruit opportunity to do something unique and fix one of the few aesthetic flaws in an otherwise beautiful building.
I can give you quite a few more examples of aesthetic flaws than acoustic block. Lets start with the water stains running down the asbestos tiles along the back walls of the interior.
And the 6,000 empty seats.
I’d bet half of those are attributable to people having to look at grey block the whole game.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
6/26/2023 2:40 PM
CatsUp wrote:expand_more
Yes, of course this qualifies as nitpicking, but it also qualifies as a low hanging fruit opportunity to do something unique and fix one of the few aesthetic flaws in an otherwise beautiful building.
I can give you quite a few more examples of aesthetic flaws than acoustic block. Lets start with the water stains running down the asbestos tiles along the back walls of the interior.
And the 6,000 empty seats.
I’d bet half of those are attributable to people having to look at grey block the whole game.
Jesus, I didn't think people liked bathroom tiles so much. Sorry.

It's freaking June, pardon me for being on topic. By all means, let's add a few more pages to our "laser-focused" portal thread where nothing ever happens, except some people find more creative ways to rip on our own players.
Last Edited: 6/26/2023 2:45:55 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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Alan Swank
6/29/2023 11:47 AM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Yes, of course this qualifies as nitpicking, but it also qualifies as a low hanging fruit opportunity to do something unique and fix one of the few aesthetic flaws in an otherwise beautiful building.
I can give you quite a few more examples of aesthetic flaws than acoustic block. Lets start with the water stains running down the asbestos tiles along the back walls of the interior.
And the 6,000 empty seats.
I’d bet half of those are attributable to people having to look at grey block the whole game.
Jesus, I didn't think people liked bathroom tiles so much. Sorry.

It's freaking June, pardon me for being on topic. By all means, let's add a few more pages to our "laser-focused" portal thread where nothing ever happens, except some people find more creative ways to rip on our own players.
Speaking in general terms and not OU specific but with NIL and the portal, can any fan base really claim that they're "our players" any longer? I know many folks who just aren't feeling the connection these days.
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AZBobcat
6/29/2023 12:11 PM
If a guy has a good year, he’ll go to a power five. If a guy doesn’t play, he’ll go somewhere where he gets minutes. The only guys you’ll keep are guys who play, but aren’t stars. There’s no experience of seeing a player start as a freshman, develop, and be the man as a senior. The big criticism of the pros, by college fans, has always been “you’re rooting for laundry.” This is rooting for laundry on steroids, when every player is a free agent every offseason. The connection to Ohio University is tenuous at best. What’s the point of it all?

Re: the gray bricks, I remember it catching my eye on TV before I even attended OU, and it makes me happy every time I see they’re still there. Yes, they’re weird, but they’re “our” weird. I say keep them.
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shabamon
6/29/2023 12:39 PM
AZBobcat wrote:expand_more
Re: the gray bricks, I remember it catching my eye on TV before I even attended OU, and it makes me happy every time I see they’re still there. Yes, they’re weird, but they’re “our” weird. I say keep them.
Kind of like the floor scoreboards. Which I wish were still there in addition to the center-hung board.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
6/29/2023 12:48 PM
AZBobcat wrote:expand_more
If a guy has a good year, he’ll go to a power five. If a guy doesn’t play, he’ll go somewhere where he gets minutes. The only guys you’ll keep are guys who play, but aren’t stars. There’s no experience of seeing a player start as a freshman, develop, and be the man as a senior. The big criticism of the pros, by college fans, has always been “you’re rooting for laundry.” This is rooting for laundry on steroids, when every player is a free agent every offseason. The connection to Ohio University is tenuous at best. What’s the point of it all?

Re: the gray bricks, I remember it catching my eye on TV before I even attended OU, and it makes me happy every time I see they’re still there. Yes, they’re weird, but they’re “our” weird. I say keep them.
Does the data actually support this? Everybody insists the sky is falling. We lost nobody this past year. Did nobody play well?
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shabamon
6/29/2023 12:54 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
If a guy has a good year, he’ll go to a power five. If a guy doesn’t play, he’ll go somewhere where he gets minutes. The only guys you’ll keep are guys who play, but aren’t stars. There’s no experience of seeing a player start as a freshman, develop, and be the man as a senior. The big criticism of the pros, by college fans, has always been “you’re rooting for laundry.” This is rooting for laundry on steroids, when every player is a free agent every offseason. The connection to Ohio University is tenuous at best. What’s the point of it all?

Re: the gray bricks, I remember it catching my eye on TV before I even attended OU, and it makes me happy every time I see they’re still there. Yes, they’re weird, but they’re “our” weird. I say keep them.
Does the data actually support this? Everybody insists the sky is falling. We lost nobody this past year. Did nobody play well?
More than half of the conference POTY winners across the nation who 1) still have eligibility and 2) come from a non-P6 conference transferred this year.

Our two best players this year were a guy in his final year of eligibility and a guy who had already transferred once. Going forward I'd be warry of anyone on our team who arrived as a freshman and earns a high MAC honor before they exhaust their eligibility.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
6/29/2023 1:25 PM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
If a guy has a good year, he’ll go to a power five. If a guy doesn’t play, he’ll go somewhere where he gets minutes. The only guys you’ll keep are guys who play, but aren’t stars. There’s no experience of seeing a player start as a freshman, develop, and be the man as a senior. The big criticism of the pros, by college fans, has always been “you’re rooting for laundry.” This is rooting for laundry on steroids, when every player is a free agent every offseason. The connection to Ohio University is tenuous at best. What’s the point of it all?

Re: the gray bricks, I remember it catching my eye on TV before I even attended OU, and it makes me happy every time I see they’re still there. Yes, they’re weird, but they’re “our” weird. I say keep them.
Does the data actually support this? Everybody insists the sky is falling. We lost nobody this past year. Did nobody play well?
More than half of the conference POTY winners across the nation who 1) still have eligibility and 2) come from a non-P6 conference transferred this year.

Our two best players this year were a guy in his final year of eligibility and a guy who had already transferred once. Going forward I'd be warry of anyone on our team who arrived as a freshman and earns a high MAC honor before they exhaust their eligibility.
That's a far cry from what AZBobcat said. The data you shared is that half of the POTY in non-P6 conferences transferred. Your data refers to the top 1% of performers (assume 10 teams per conference and 10 roster spots for the rough math).

AZBobcat said that anybody who has a good year will transfer. Obviously subjective, but we held onto guys who had good years, right? If "good" means all conference, then yeah -- we're gonna struggle to hold onto those guys.

Maybe you all are right, but to me the jury's out. Non power conference teams are gaining from the portal, as well. I'm just not convinced that when the dust settles this is going to be a "what's the point of it all?" caliber change to things. We're so early into this, that we just don't know what the status quo will end up looking like.

But look at the All MAC teams last year. 4 of 5 guys on the 1st team transferred to the MAC. 2 of 5 on the 2nd team. Emoni Bates on the 3rd team, Jaylin Hunter, Leon Ayers, Anderson Mirambeaux, Kaleb Thornton, Lamar Norton Jr, all got honorable mention and transferred to the MAC. And the only member of the all-Freshman team to transfer transferred to another MAC school.

The MAC loses some good players, it gets some good players. Hard for me to conclude there's no point in supporting Ohio basketball anymore.
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shabamon
6/29/2023 1:46 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
If a guy has a good year, he’ll go to a power five. If a guy doesn’t play, he’ll go somewhere where he gets minutes. The only guys you’ll keep are guys who play, but aren’t stars. There’s no experience of seeing a player start as a freshman, develop, and be the man as a senior. The big criticism of the pros, by college fans, has always been “you’re rooting for laundry.” This is rooting for laundry on steroids, when every player is a free agent every offseason. The connection to Ohio University is tenuous at best. What’s the point of it all?

Re: the gray bricks, I remember it catching my eye on TV before I even attended OU, and it makes me happy every time I see they’re still there. Yes, they’re weird, but they’re “our” weird. I say keep them.
Does the data actually support this? Everybody insists the sky is falling. We lost nobody this past year. Did nobody play well?
More than half of the conference POTY winners across the nation who 1) still have eligibility and 2) come from a non-P6 conference transferred this year.

Our two best players this year were a guy in his final year of eligibility and a guy who had already transferred once. Going forward I'd be warry of anyone on our team who arrived as a freshman and earns a high MAC honor before they exhaust their eligibility.
That's a far cry from what AZBobcat said. The data you shared is that half of the POTY in non-P6 conferences transferred. Your data refers to the top 1% of performers (assume 10 teams per conference and 10 roster spots for the rough math).

AZBobcat said that anybody who has a good year will transfer. Obviously subjective, but we held onto guys who had good years, right? If "good" means all conference, then yeah -- we're gonna struggle to hold onto those guys.

Maybe you all are right, but to me the jury's out. Non power conference teams are gaining from the portal, as well. I'm just not convinced that when the dust settles this is going to be a "what's the point of it all?" caliber change to things. We're so early into this, that we just don't know what the status quo will end up looking like.

But look at the All MAC teams last year. 4 of 5 guys on the 1st team transferred to the MAC. 2 of 5 on the 2nd team. Emoni Bates on the 3rd team, Jaylin Hunter, Leon Ayers, Anderson Mirambeaux, Kaleb Thornton, Lamar Norton Jr, all got honorable mention and transferred to the MAC. And the only member of the all-Freshman team to transfer transferred to another MAC school.

The MAC loses some good players, it gets some good players. Hard for me to conclude there's no point in supporting Ohio basketball anymore.
From a competitive standpoint, it's probably true. These things will even out. If such kids think Ohio University can help them and they help the program win in return, I'm all for it. Give me Walter Offutt all day every day.

The issue I have is that, as a fan, I don't hold Walter Offutt in the same high regard as DJ Cooper. Are we ever going to see an all time great who begins and completes his college journey entirely at Ohio? To be honest, I don't want to get my hopes up and get excited for three more years of AJ Brown, a guy who has the potential to be one of the top 10 scorers in school history, who is not from the region and has a younger brother committed to the big school in his home state. I think the sport loses something when that is gone. Isn't it cool that we have Gary Trent in our history (I'm making an exception for guys who leave for the pros early; Trent could have transferred almost anywhere after his freshman year in today's landscape)? Isn't it cool that Miami has Szczerbiak and Harper? Ball State has Bonzi? Weber State has Dame?

Look at Grant Nelson who is leaving North Dakota State after three years for Alabama. If he stays at NDSU, he's a jersey in the rafters guy. In a year's time if he's drafted, Alabama gets all the credit and NDSU is the afterthought. I don't want Ohio to become the stepping stone or he afterthought.
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OhioCatFan
6/29/2023 3:16 PM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
Look at Grant Nelson who is leaving North Dakota State after three years for Alabama. If he stays at NDSU, he's a jersey in the rafters guy. In a year's time if he's drafted, Alabama gets all the credit and NDSU is the afterthought. I don't want Ohio to become the stepping stone or he afterthought.
My thoughts, exactly.

I'm guessing that in the NIL world in the non-P6 universe there will be a handful of coaches who will defy the odds and hang on to exceptional talent and have seasoned senior-laden teams that can compete well in the NCAA tournament and advance to the Elite 8 and occasionally Final Four rounds. This will probably be due to a combination of selective recruiting, superb locker room and off-the-court (or field) interactions with players, and an above average G5 NIL pool. I'm hoping that Boals and TA will be coaches like that with resources like that. Perhaps donations from deep-pocket athletically oriented alumni that used to go for such things as the IPC/MPC will now be funneled into the NIL Collective.

[A side note: It seems to me that these NIL Collectives are not really in the spirit of NIL, unless they actually involve using the name, image or likeness of the recipient for some kind of advertising. Otherwise, they are just outright payments to players for simply being a player at a school and would constitute a defacto salary. I'm sure legal minds better than mine will figure this all out, but I do wonder about it.]
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GoCats105
6/29/2023 5:28 PM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
If a guy has a good year, he’ll go to a power five. If a guy doesn’t play, he’ll go somewhere where he gets minutes. The only guys you’ll keep are guys who play, but aren’t stars. There’s no experience of seeing a player start as a freshman, develop, and be the man as a senior. The big criticism of the pros, by college fans, has always been “you’re rooting for laundry.” This is rooting for laundry on steroids, when every player is a free agent every offseason. The connection to Ohio University is tenuous at best. What’s the point of it all?

Re: the gray bricks, I remember it catching my eye on TV before I even attended OU, and it makes me happy every time I see they’re still there. Yes, they’re weird, but they’re “our” weird. I say keep them.
Does the data actually support this? Everybody insists the sky is falling. We lost nobody this past year. Did nobody play well?
More than half of the conference POTY winners across the nation who 1) still have eligibility and 2) come from a non-P6 conference transferred this year.

Our two best players this year were a guy in his final year of eligibility and a guy who had already transferred once. Going forward I'd be warry of anyone on our team who arrived as a freshman and earns a high MAC honor before they exhaust their eligibility.
That's a far cry from what AZBobcat said. The data you shared is that half of the POTY in non-P6 conferences transferred. Your data refers to the top 1% of performers (assume 10 teams per conference and 10 roster spots for the rough math).

AZBobcat said that anybody who has a good year will transfer. Obviously subjective, but we held onto guys who had good years, right? If "good" means all conference, then yeah -- we're gonna struggle to hold onto those guys.

Maybe you all are right, but to me the jury's out. Non power conference teams are gaining from the portal, as well. I'm just not convinced that when the dust settles this is going to be a "what's the point of it all?" caliber change to things. We're so early into this, that we just don't know what the status quo will end up looking like.

But look at the All MAC teams last year. 4 of 5 guys on the 1st team transferred to the MAC. 2 of 5 on the 2nd team. Emoni Bates on the 3rd team, Jaylin Hunter, Leon Ayers, Anderson Mirambeaux, Kaleb Thornton, Lamar Norton Jr, all got honorable mention and transferred to the MAC. And the only member of the all-Freshman team to transfer transferred to another MAC school.

The MAC loses some good players, it gets some good players. Hard for me to conclude there's no point in supporting Ohio basketball anymore.
From a competitive standpoint, it's probably true. These things will even out. If such kids think Ohio University can help them and they help the program win in return, I'm all for it. Give me Walter Offutt all day every day.

The issue I have is that, as a fan, I don't hold Walter Offutt in the same high regard as DJ Cooper. Are we ever going to see an all time great who begins and completes his college journey entirely at Ohio? To be honest, I don't want to get my hopes up and get excited for three more years of AJ Brown, a guy who has the potential to be one of the top 10 scorers in school history, who is not from the region and has a younger brother committed to the big school in his home state. I think the sport loses something when that is gone. Isn't it cool that we have Gary Trent in our history (I'm making an exception for guys who leave for the pros early; Trent could have transferred almost anywhere after his freshman year in today's landscape)? Isn't it cool that Miami has Szczerbiak and Harper? Ball State has Bonzi? Weber State has Dame?

Look at Grant Nelson who is leaving North Dakota State after three years for Alabama. If he stays at NDSU, he's a jersey in the rafters guy. In a year's time if he's drafted, Alabama gets all the credit and NDSU is the afterthought. I don't want Ohio to become the stepping stone or he afterthought.
If we don't want Ohio to become that, we (collective we: Ohio University, the AD, donors, fans, everyone) would have to step up our game in a serious way. Who do we want to be? A middling mid-major who gets to the dance every so often, or someone who dominates their league year-in, year-out? We've had this dilemma for years, but now that the portal and NIL have changed things it's almost like people (not you, shab) are finally realizing "oh no this could get worse before it gets better."

The competitive balance has shifted in a big, big way where Ohio and schools like Ohio are going to become feeder schools for larger programs with more dollars to give. It sucks, but that's the way it is.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
6/29/2023 5:47 PM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
The issue I have is that, as a fan, I don't hold Walter Offutt in the same high regard as DJ Cooper. Are we ever going to see an all time great who begins and completes his college journey entirely at Ohio? To be honest, I don't want to get my hopes up and get excited for three more years of AJ Brown, a guy who has the potential to be one of the top 10 scorers in school history, who is not from the region and has a younger brother committed to the big school in his home state. [/QUOTE]I mean, I hear you. But I just don't get how one justifies restricting transfers given what you're saying. I mean, basically you're saying that AJ Brown might want to go play basketball with his brother. Is it somehow consistent with the NCAAs mission to keep that from happening? How does one justify it?


I think the sport loses something when that is gone. Isn't it cool that we have Gary Trent in our history (I'm making an exception for guys who leave for the pros early; Trent could have transferred almost anywhere after his freshman year in today's landscape)? Isn't it cool that Miami has Szczerbiak and Harper? Ball State has Bonzi? Weber State has Dame?
100% agree. The sport loses something. But I think I disagree with the premise. Would Trent have transferred if he wouldn't have had to sit out a year? If so, that sort of sucks. It basically means that players only stay at Ohio because of a contractual obligation.

Which is kind of the core issue here. The root of people's issues here are really about the "fan experience." And we're fans, so that makes sense. But the problem is that this is amateur athletics and the NCAA claims their mission is to educate first. Where does the fan experience fit into that mission, exactly? Certainly it's not a legally justifiable reason to restrict the freedom of an individual to study where they'd like.

Pro sports has a solution to this: employment. And that employment's structured with set duration contracts. Without that, I don't think the NCAA's going to have much of a leg to stand on if they try and restrict student movement. There aren't restrictions on a Chemistry Major's ability to transfer from one school to another, even if they're on scholarship. Hard to treat basketball players differently.

[QUOTE=shabamon]
Look at Grant Nelson who is leaving North Dakota State after three years for Alabama. If he stays at NDSU, he's a jersey in the rafters guy. In a year's time if he's drafted, Alabama gets all the credit and NDSU is the afterthought. I don't want Ohio to become the stepping stone or he afterthought.
NDSU is an afterthought to who? Grant Nelson? I don't think so. What's the actual significance of "all of the credit" that Alabama gets?
Last Edited: 6/30/2023 7:51:02 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
6/29/2023 5:59 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
The competitive balance has shifted in a big, big way where Ohio and schools like Ohio are going to become feeder schools for larger programs with more dollars to give. It sucks, but that's the way it is.
That's the way everybody assumes it is, but I am not ready to accept it's true. Is that how Florida Atlantic went to the Final Four? Did UConn raid a bunch of mid-majors for talent, or did they build a team of a bunch of upper classmen and win with experience? How did San Diego State build their team? Of the final four teams, only Miami was a big portal player.

I do think college basketball has changed dramatically, but not the way people here think. Continuity matters. Experience matters. That's been true for a while now. VCU, Wichita State, Creighton, Loyola Chicago -- they all rose in the ranks during a time that the P5 had to deal with one and dones and lack of continuity. I don't think that's a coincidence.

P5 teams who lean heavily into the portal now have more continuity challenges. The Miami Heat with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh took a year to gel and win a championship. The Suns are full of All Stars. Anybody want to bet on them to win this year?

If big programs want to go shopping in the portal for short term transfers and couple them with one and done players, go for it. They will in the short term, because this is a shiny new tool. But the jury is still very much out on whether or not it's going to lead to wins.
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