Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Couch Coaches
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cbus cat fan
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Posted: 3/18/2013 10:18 PM
Redrustler, in reponse to what you said about me and the other posters who disagreed with your analysis, I would just refer you to their posts prior to this one. Take care.
Last Edited: 3/18/2013 10:19:21 PM by cbus cat fan
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 3/18/2013 10:43 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Just a bit of change of pace here...wasn't Bruce Webber run out of Illinois 'cause he couldn't win with "all that talent" JG inherited?  Oh, and isn't that the same Bruce Weber that is now at K-State and going to the dance?  Face it, sports are very unpredictable and every year you start out 0-0 hoping for the very best.  What happens from there on is purely up to Coaches AND players.  Could JC have done somethings different, I suppose so.  Could the players have done somethings different?  I suppose so.  Could things have been different?  I suppose so but they weren't.

The good news is JC is a coach who knows how to win.  I think we are better off with him than just about anybody in the MAC but Akron nio matter what happened this year.  As I said somewhere else, like them or not Akron has their program rolling and I think the two of us battle it out for the next few years!


Outstanding point about Bruce Weber!!  In fact, isn't Kansas State a 4 seed?   He did a great job this season and I'm sure the Kansas State fans are happy (so far).
OUBobcat13
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Posted: 3/18/2013 11:23 PM
I am here to "come clean" if you will. I have not been on the Jim Christian bandwagon from the beginning. From the day he was announced I didn't like the hire. As the season progressed, I didn't like him. I posted on here that he would never have another 20 win season. I have questioned his recruiting. I have questioned his game prep. I have questioned his in-game coaching decisions. I have questioned everything he has done. I have been a Couch Coach. I was angry that we did not win any "big games". We lost some bad games. I'm still not on the Coach Christian bandwagon.

That said, I am stating now that I am resigning my position as a Couch Coach. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Despite my gripes, there were many games in which we could have lost and pulled out. We were MAC East Co-champs. We will still finish with at-least 24 wins. Had we not beaten Akron by one point last year, I believe that expectations would not have been nearly as high as I had them for this season. I do not know that Groce and Co. would have had a different outcome. I have come to realize that I have to give Christian a few more years to prove that he belongs in Athens and can be a winner at Ohio, and I am stating tonight that I will do that.

Last season, our football team did not live up to my expectations. I am not questioning Solich or his staff, why should I question Christian? Sometimes good teams underperform. Sometimes mediocre teams over achieve. I have come to accept this...

So, Congrats to the team, Congrats to the Coaching staff, and Congrats to the fans that set MAC records for attendance and ticket revenue. I have been a Bobcat fan since the day I stepped on campus in the fall of 2000, and witnessing my first MAC East championship will not change my loyalty to the Green and White. Thanks!
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 3/19/2013 12:04 AM
OUBobcat13 wrote:expand_more
I am here to "come clean" if you will. I have not been on the Jim Christian bandwagon from the beginning. From the day he was announced I didn't like the hire. As the season progressed, I didn't like him. I posted on here that he would never have another 20 win season. I have questioned his recruiting. I have questioned his game prep. I have questioned his in-game coaching decisions. I have questioned everything he has done. I have been a Couch Coach. I was angry that we did not win any "big games". We lost some bad games. I'm still not on the Coach Christian bandwagon.

That said, I am stating now that I am resigning my position as a Couch Coach. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Despite my gripes, there were many games in which we could have lost and pulled out. We were MAC East Co-champs. We will still finish with at-least 24 wins. Had we not beaten Akron by one point last year, I believe that expectations would not have been nearly as high as I had them for this season. I do not know that Groce and Co. would have had a different outcome. I have come to realize that I have to give Christian a few more years to prove that he belongs in Athens and can be a winner at Ohio, and I am stating tonight that I will do that.

Last season, our football team did not live up to my expectations. I am not questioning Solich or his staff, why should I question Christian? Sometimes good teams underperform. Sometimes mediocre teams over achieve. I have come to accept this...

So, Congrats to the team, Congrats to the Coaching staff, and Congrats to the fans that set MAC records for attendance and ticket revenue. I have been a Bobcat fan since the day I stepped on campus in the fall of 2000, and witnessing my first MAC East championship will not change my loyalty to the Green and White. Thanks!


This is a good perspective. I think Coach Christian will do a good job, but I'm fine with those who are of the opposite opinion as long as they are open-minded about it. There are some things I think he did very well this year and some I'm concerned with, but one season ultimately isn't going to tell us a whole lot. Expectations next year will be much lower and we'll see how that turns out. As for now, I'm just hoping Ohio doesn't have another 1-of-20 3-point game and some Denver player doesn't go 7 for 7. We haven't won many big games, but it'd be nice if we could catch a break in one of them.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/19/2013 12:18 AM
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:expand_more
?  Oh, and isn't that the same Bruce Weber that is now at K-State and going to the dance? 
!


Outstanding point about Bruce Weber!!  In fact, isn't Kansas State a 4 seed?   He did a great job this season and I'm sure the Kansas State fans are happy (so far).


I did not say anything with the first quote but now a second one shown up. FOrget all the rest of the conversation and lets just digress and talk about this situation apart from the discussion.

There is a huge difference in those 2. Groce got a team in disarray with glaring holes, bad attitudes and lots of weakness' with regard to personnel, positions unfilled and mental toughness. THey lost their best player and only true middle to the NBA. He did what he could with it and made lemonade.

Weber got Frank Martins squad with strength at every position poised to make a pretty good run at a conference title. I do think he did a good job in getting them in system and letting them play but that team i s well balanced, smart, deep and talented with not many holes or glaring weakness.

2 really different situations.... ny repspected opinions  predict in 4 years Weber will be in the same boat he was in at Illinois or worse.

Holding Weber up as doing a great job in obtaining a 4 seed is a bit misleading. If he would have got them on a 2 line....that would have been a Great job as he would have taken them to a level above where they should have been.  There are already threads on their boards about his recruits.

We now return you to your regular mess......
cc-cat
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Posted: 3/19/2013 12:18 AM
Ozcat wrote:expand_more
cc cat - I agree with almost all of your points.  Well stated. 

I think you're just a little too hard on Groce.  I don't think a single player would think he "quit" on them.  You do not turn down $1.4M a year to coach a tradition rich school in the best basketball conference in the country.  I promise you that Coop understands why he left.


I completely agree.  I was just trying to be as obstinate and overly dramatic as the anti Christian crowd. 
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 3/19/2013 1:24 AM

No power forward underneath play, no chance.

bobcat2nc
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Posted: 3/19/2013 1:36 AM
cc cat wrote:expand_more
cc cat - I agree with almost all of your points.  Well stated. 

I think you're just a little too hard on Groce.  I don't think a single player would think he "quit" on them.  You do not turn down $1.4M a year to coach a tradition rich school in the best basketball conference in the country.  I promise you that Coop understands why he left.


I completely agree.  I was just trying to be as obstinate and overly dramatic as the anti Christian crowd. 


I made this same point in another thread some time back.  I Understand why Groce left but I didn't like it and I still don't.  He knew that his chance to go to such a good place was "time sensitive".  I am pretty sure that he also knew that this team was streaky last year and would be streaky this year.  As I said in my other post "we just do not know what would have happened if Groce would have stayed".  They only things we do know is that John Groce left, Jim Christian came, the Bobcats did not perform well in more games than we would have liked..even some that we won.

Each of us can make our own statements about the FACTS but mostly what has been purported to be FACT has been opinion.  

My opinion is that if it was certain that the Bobcats would  perform at or better in the NCAAs this year then it would be certain that Groce would also get an equal or better coaching job at the end of this year. Since it was not certain the only choice he had was to leave.

I also think it is unreasonable to expect a new coach to just throw out the ball to a bunch of veteran kids and  say.."ok just play like you did last year."  
bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/19/2013 11:00 AM
bobcat2nc wrote:expand_more
I also think it is unreasonable to expect a new coach to just throw out the ball to a bunch of veteran kids and  say.."ok just play like you did last year."  


Agree with that buyt listening to Jim Crews at SLU, that is exactly what he said he did. No speeches, no rah. Kids are teaching him the offense and defensive principles and variations in practice. Amazong if you get a chance to listen to him tell this story. He has been around but Majerus' kids are making him look like the genius he never was.
LongDistancebobcat
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Posted: 3/19/2013 11:05 AM
Why are they teaching him?  He was an assistant there last year.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/19/2013 11:11 AM
LongDistancebobcat wrote:expand_more
Why are they teaching him?  He was an assistant there last year.


Dunno

I was fascinated listening to him talk. He says they often just stop practice and tell him the correct way to run a play or what action Coach wanted off that particular screen.
bobcat2nc
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Posted: 3/19/2013 11:26 AM
Borna, 

Thanks again for adding your basketball junkie insights and connections to these threads.  I love the game of BB and watching the nuances, intricacies, and strategies of trying to bring together a bunch of players who all want the same end result but come from different places and have their own ideas of how to get there.   It can't be easy. It certainly is easy to make coaching adjustments from row a, section 213.  Hell, I do it every game but nobody listens-not even my wife.


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