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Topic: Shaka & Groce
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GroverBall
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Posted: 3/21/2013 10:47 AM
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I liked BL's Sense of Shame's comparison of Ohio and VCU and today I ran across this quote from Shaka:

“I stayed at VCU first and foremost because of our players,” he said. “I love our guys and I love coaching them and working with them. I really couldn’t see, especially after the year we went to the Final Four, going in the locker room literally a few days later and saying, `Hey, guys, thanks, but I’m out of here.’ That just didn’t make much sense.”

Which begs this question:

Does anybody think JG would have stayed had we beaten UNC and then Kansas to reach the Final Four?

And just for argument's sake let's pretend Ohio would have dangled the type of big money at JG that VCU dangled at Shaka.

I know, I know, this is all irrelevant fantasy land stuff but the season is over and I'm not quite ready to stop thinking about Ohio hoops.
OUbobcat9092
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Posted: 3/21/2013 11:14 AM
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GroverBall wrote:expand_more
I liked BL's Sense of Shame's comparison of Ohio and VCU and today I ran across this quote from Shaka:

“I stayed at VCU first and foremost because of our players,” he said. “I love our guys and I love coaching them and working with them. I really couldn’t see, especially after the year we went to the Final Four, going in the locker room literally a few days later and saying, `Hey, guys, thanks, but I’m out of here.’ That just didn’t make much sense.”

Which begs this question:

Does anybody think JG would have stayed had we beaten UNC and then Kansas to reach the Final Four?

And just for argument's sake let's pretend Ohio would have dangled the type of big money at JG that VCU dangled at Shaka.

I know, I know, this is all irrelevant fantasy land stuff but the season is over and I'm not quite ready to stop thinking about Ohio hoops.


Irrelevant fantasy land in which Ohio would have been able to offer $1.3 million to Groce...
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 3/21/2013 11:34 AM
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It also remains to be seen if Shaka is at VCU for the long haul. As I recall, he got on a plane to Illinois last year. 
redrustler
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Posted: 3/21/2013 3:43 PM
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As I recall, he got on a plane to Illinois last year.

As much as I like JG, Shaka has done more at VCU than Groce did at O.U., at least in terms of success over a longer period of time. My guess would be that if Illinois said something that Shaka wanted to hear, he would have moved. That he flew on a plane, and then went back to VCU tells me that Illinois did not sweeten the pot enough.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/21/2013 9:03 PM
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redrustler wrote:expand_more
As I recall, he got on a plane to Illinois last year.

As much as I like JG, Shaka has done more at VCU than Groce did at O.U., at least in terms of success over a longer period of time. My guess would be that if Illinois said something that Shaka wanted to hear, he would have moved. That he flew on a plane, and then went back to VCU tells me that Illinois did not sweeten the pot enough.


Or, that he was just testing the waters and decided that he really liked it where he was.  Not everyone puts the almighty dollar at the top of his or her priority list.  
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 3/21/2013 10:18 PM
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I think as soon as Ohio beat South Florida, JG was out of Ohio no matter what Ohio did after that.  He wasn't staying; Ohio was merely a stepping stone.
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 3/21/2013 10:31 PM
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Is it possible Shaka is waiting on the Duke job?
bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/21/2013 10:38 PM
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Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
Is it possible Shaka is waiting on the Duke job?
NOt if Groce gets there first. Seriously. ....I have felt this in my bones. 6th sense. It is all about timing.
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 3/21/2013 10:39 PM
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Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
Is it possible Shaka is waiting on the Duke job?


Ditto for Groce (at least in his mind)?

You beat me, Borna!  :). 
Last Edited: 3/21/2013 10:40:36 PM by Mark Lembright '85
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 3/21/2013 10:39 PM
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bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Is it possible Shaka is waiting on the Duke job?
NOt if Groce gets there first. Seriously. ....I have felt this in my bones. 6th sense. It is all about timing.


Woah. That would be something else. And quite a feather in Ohio's cap.
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 3/21/2013 10:43 PM
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Hey , maybe Groce will be our Urban Meyer or Nick Saban (I know, different sport).
mid70sbobcat
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Posted: 3/21/2013 10:43 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
As I recall, he got on a plane to Illinois last year.

As much as I like JG, Shaka has done more at VCU than Groce did at O.U., at least in terms of success over a longer period of time. My guess would be that if Illinois said something that Shaka wanted to hear, he would have moved. That he flew on a plane, and then went back to VCU tells me that Illinois did not sweeten the pot enough.


Or, that he was just testing the waters and decided that he really liked it where he was.  Not everyone puts the almighty dollar at the top of his or her priority list.  


Per Wikipedia he makes $1.2 million a year. How much does someone need to be content? And he's obviously a fairly intelligent guy .. he went to Kenyon. And that's where the Ohio connection comes into play. Who was his coach at Kenyon?  Billy Brown ....

And later Shaka went onto his first coaching gig at California (Pa) .. under who? Billy Brown.

His wife graduated from both Harvard and Northwestern. So this guy and wife are sharp.

He may stay at VCU .. who knows. But why leave? He makes good $$$. He's establishing a great program in his 4 years there so far.

After graduating from high school, Smart attended Kenyon College, a liberal arts school in Ohio. On the ESPN program Pardon the Interruption, Smart credited his personal relationship with then head coach Bill Brown as the reason for his decision. As a member of the Kenyon College basketball team, he was an all-conference selection as a senior and is the school's career assists leader (542).[6] Smart was named a member of the 1999 USA TODAY All-USA Academic Team.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaka_Smart
GraffZ06
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Posted: 3/21/2013 10:52 PM
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bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Is it possible Shaka is waiting on the Duke job?
NOt if Groce gets there first. Seriously. ....I have felt this in my bones. 6th sense. It is all about timing.


I'm not positive I can like Duke anymore than I already do, but if that hire happens my fandom wouldn't skip a beat post Coach K. 
bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/21/2013 10:53 PM
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good stuff

I met a counselor at Richmond HS a while back, said she was a swimmer, I let out a little gasp. The person with me said "what s that about". I said .....you are in the presence of a National Champion.... person says.."how do you know"... ;hmmmmm National Champ Kenyon Swimmer is redundant.

Shaka's j;ourney is pretty spectacular. He is smart.....and he is also a very nice guy. Eveeryone I have met that talks about him loves sitting and sharing time. Truly nice guys in that profession are hard to find. ...don t know much about Kenyon but I have yet to meet anyone from there I have not liked as a person and felt like was a truly great human. He represents his school well.....and talks it up often.
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 3/21/2013 10:57 PM
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bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
good stuff

I met a counselor at Richmond HS a while back, said she was a swimmer, I let out a little gasp. The person with me said "what s that about". I said .....you are in the presence of a National Champion.... person says.."how do you know"... ;hmmmmm National Champ Kenyon Swimmer is redundant.

Shaka's j;ourney is pretty spectacular. He is smart.....and he is also a very nice guy. Eveeryone I have met that talks about him loves sitting and sharing time. Truly nice guys in that profession are hard to find. ...don t know much about Kenyon but I have yet to meet anyone from there I have not liked as a person and felt like was a truly great human. He represents his school well.....and talks it up often.


People like that you really root for.
mf279801
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Posted: 3/22/2013 2:09 PM
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mid70sbobcat wrote:expand_more
...Per Wikipedia he makes $1.2 million a year. How much does someone need to be content? ...


A lot of times its not about the money per se, but about being the best, and other recognizing that you're the best (i.e. the salary as a form of competition, not as a way to greater consumption/standard of living/etc)
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 3/27/2013 9:58 AM
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Shaka got to get paid, son.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/27/2013 11:33 AM
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Whoa!!!  Hold on a moment folks . . . this speculation about coaches moving into jobs that aren't open is getting a little ridiculous in IMHO.  First, JG is about two subpar seasons from getting the axe.  Who knows how well he'll do at Illinois.   Second, Shaka may be a lifer at VCU.   I suspect with his Ohio background (Kenyon and Akron) that O$U fans think he secretly desires to coach the Buckeyes.  And look at this, Shaka is renegotiating his contract at VCU but not asking for more salary but for more enhancements to the program and things that will help recruitment.  It doesn't sound like a guy who places the personal accumulation of wealth at the top his list.

Edit:  Following a legend is not easy and is something many coaches will shy away from. 
Last Edited: 3/27/2013 11:36:43 AM by OhioCatFan
Chicken George
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Posted: 3/27/2013 11:54 AM
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THis is water under the bridge, but...

I remember meeting JG father while staying at the team hotel last year and I asked him a totally inappropriate question after hanging around him a few days, "I know you probably can't comment, but do you think John will leave Ohio after this great season?"

I expected his father to avoid this question, but he quickly answered that while he wasn't 100% sure, he couldn't imagine John leaving this group of Seniors and had talked openly about turning OHIO into the next Butler, VCU, Duke, etc...  He went onto say that he didn't know what would happen, but if he had to bet, he thought John was leaning towards staying. 

Not sure if his father was just telling me what I wanted to hear, or if he was being honest.  John took the most travelled road, the safer road and the road 99% of Americans would take.  But I love the guys who want to be the trail blazers and wish to be Ohio's 1st John Groce, instead of trying to one day be like Duke's Mike K.  Rarely happens, but I love the guys who want to be their own men, versus taking the more guaranteed route.  Then again, I've always been a little weird.
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Posted: 3/27/2013 1:17 PM
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Chicken George wrote:expand_more
he wasn't 100% sure, he couldn't imagine John leaving this group of Seniors and had talked openly about turning OHIO into the next Butler, VCU, Duke, etc... 


Sounds like he probably handicapped it about right, when you take into account how many people told Illinois "no" before making it down their wish list to Groce, it really was only going to be a perfect job like that to draw him away. Unfortunate, but that's exactly what happened.
KyleWvr13
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Posted: 3/28/2013 1:00 AM
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Shaka is staying for the long haul.  He turned down UCLA and signed an extension with VCU until 2023.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/910... type="_moz" />
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Posted: 3/28/2013 1:37 AM
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mf279801 wrote:expand_more
...Per Wikipedia he makes $1.2 million a year. How much does someone need to be content? ...


A lot of times its not about the money per se, but about being the best, and other recognizing that you're the best (i.e. the salary as a form of competition, not as a way to greater consumption/standard of living/etc)


I believe the "happiness" measure levels off around 70k a year.
davepi2
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Posted: 3/28/2013 5:16 AM
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It is possible Groce might have stayed at Ohio for at least one more year with wins over north carolina and kansas. Afterall the Illinois job might have been filled by someone else if Ohio had kept winning.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/28/2013 9:54 AM
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Chicken George wrote:expand_more
THis is water under the bridge, but...

I remember meeting JG father while staying at the team hotel last year and I asked him a totally inappropriate question after hanging around him a few days, "I know you probably can't comment, but do you think John will leave Ohio after this great season?"

I expected his father to avoid this question, but he quickly answered that while he wasn't 100% sure, he couldn't imagine John leaving this group of Seniors and had talked openly about turning OHIO into the next Butler, VCU, Duke, etc...  He went onto say that he didn't know what would happen, but if he had to bet, he thought John was leaning towards staying. 

Not sure if his father was just telling me what I wanted to hear, or if he was being honest.  John took the most travelled road, the safer road and the road 99% of Americans would take.  But I love the guys who want to be the trail blazers and wish to be Ohio's 1st John Groce, instead of trying to one day be like Duke's Mike K.  Rarely happens, but I love the guys who want to be their own men, versus taking the more guaranteed route.  Then again, I've always been a little weird.


Thanks for sharing this conversation, CG.  Like you, I admire the guys who take the road less traveled.   For the record, Bill Hess and Jim Snyder were those types of men and were my early coaching heros as a kid. 
Bleed Green & White
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Posted: 3/28/2013 2:02 PM
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While it's fun to compare Groce to Smart, Stevens, and even Mark Few and wishing he'd follow their paths, it would be like comparing oranges to grapefruits.

Oranges are sweet and juicy and are easily eaten & enjoyed by the masses.  Grapefruits on the other hand are sour, awkward, and take some effort and determination to eat & enjoy.

VCU, Butler, and Gonzaga are oranges; Ohio is a grapefruit.


Smart, Stevens, and Few came into established programs and made them great.  

Groce came into a floundering program and made it good.  While I would have loved to see him stay, it wouldn't have guaranteed Ohio taking the next step.

Athens, as much as I truly love it, is not comparable to Indy or Richmond or Champagin-Urbana.  I'm sure that's another thing to consider.

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