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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Your chance to assert wrong in a big way.
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Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 3/28/2013 11:10 PM
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Start now telling me that Florida Gulf Coast University should be ranked worse than #16.

It's what you do
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/28/2013 11:31 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Start now telling me that Florida Gulf Coast University should be ranked worse than #16.

It's what you do 


Right on my Man!  Absolutely 100 per cent correctmento. You'll get no argument from me. And, if they make it to the Final Four, they'll be at a minimum the 4th best team in the nation.  I'm not sure why to some folks this simple concept is so controversial.  You win when it counts and you are better than the team that lost when it counted.  It seems intuitively obvious to me.  Yes, OHIO was #16 or better last year.
Last Edited: 3/28/2013 11:32:16 PM by OhioCatFan
whocaresgobobcats
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Posted: 3/28/2013 11:39 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Start now telling me that Florida Gulf Coast University should be ranked worse than #16.

It's what you do 


Right on my Man!  Absolutely 100 per cent correctmento. You'll get no argument from me. And, if they make it to the Final Four, they'll be at a minimum the 4th best team in the nation.  I'm not sure why to some folks this simple concept is so controversial.  You win when it counts and you are better than the team that lost when it counted.  It seems intuitively obvious to me.  Yes, OHIO was #16 or better last year.


because one and done tournament results are random and flawed.
Last Edited: 3/28/2013 11:40:11 PM by whocaresgobobcats
JSF
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Posted: 3/28/2013 11:39 PM
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I see you two seized that chance. With gusto!
ClevelandCat '11
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Posted: 3/29/2013 12:57 AM
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So Wichita State who beat a suspect Pittsburgh, and overrated Gonzaga and another cinderella team in LaSalle is better than Regular Season outright Big Ten Champ Indiana? Mmmmkay. Its not taking away from a team that goes on a great run in the tournament and earned their way there to say that they may of won games at the right time and werent the better team overall. Was the USA Hockey team better than the Soviets (who absolutely curbstomped the NHL all stars previous to the 1980 Olympics)? No they were not. They took their chance, won the game, but an upset win doesnt all of the sudden make an underdog the superior team. Thats what makes sports and the NCAA tournament special, the best team doesnt always win, just the team that played best that day and sometimes miracles happen. A lesser team winning is what makes it an upset in the first place, or else they would of been favored the whole time.
ClevelandCat '11
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Posted: 3/29/2013 1:03 AM
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ColumbusCat '11 wrote:expand_more
So Wichita State who beat a suspect Pittsburgh, and overrated Gonzaga and another cinderella team in LaSalle is better than Regular Season outright Big Ten Champ Indiana? Mmmmkay. Its not taking away from a team that goes on a great run in the tournament and earned their way there to say that they may of won games at the right time and werent the better team overall. Was the USA Hockey team better than the Soviets (who absolutely curbstomped the NHL all stars previous to the 1980 Olympics)? No they were not. They took their chance, won the game, but an upset win doesnt all of the sudden make an underdog the superior team. Thats what makes sports and the NCAA tournament special, the best team doesnt always win, just the team that played best that day and sometimes miracles happen. A lesser team winning is what makes it an upset in the first place, or else they would of been favored the whole time.


Also by this logic, Liberty is better than Kentucky, Maryland, Iowa and Ohio.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 3/29/2013 1:07 AM
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Bill Russell-played on 11 NBA championship teams in 13 years and 2 of 3 years he coached Boston Celtics, they were champs.     “It’s simple, the best team always wins.”

It's amazing the way some of you deny reality.

Get into it. 

In fact, make that argument that the team that loses the key moment game is the better team and should be ranked higher.

Get into it.



I'm sure Herb Brooks believed that his team was #2.
Pataskala
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Posted: 3/29/2013 7:10 AM
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By the same token you could argue that G-town and SDSU were overrated.  The rankings are supposed to reflect how teams compare to other teams overall for the entire season, not how they do in a handful of games during March.  There's an argument to be made that they should be ranked high.  Unlike Ohio last season, they have a quality win over MiamiF back in November.  But they also lost to three NCAA tourney teams -- VCU, Iowa St and Duke -- plus two bad losses to Maine(?!) and St. John's (yes, they're Big East, but they finished 11th in a 16-team league and were 17-16).  And they were only 13-5 in an incredibly soft league; only FGCU and Mercer had winning records in the ASC, so it's even worse than the MAC.  I think Ohio was ranked just about right at the end of last season (25th in the Coaches Poll).  FGCU should probably be top 25 but I wouldn't necessarily say they're one of the top 16.
colobobcat66
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Posted: 3/29/2013 7:38 AM
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And I used to think accountants are logical. Comparing An NBA championship where teams play multiple game series to determine champions are way different than one and done NCAA champions. And NCAA championships are not round-robin affairs like Olympic hockey. NCAA championships just shows who can win 6 or 7 games in a row over whomever they happen to be playing on the next night and has not so much to do with relative strengths and weaknesses against the whole field of teams. The results can be so different depending in bracket, location , travel, officiating , etc as to label blanket statements like Monroe makes almost comical except that he believes them.
colobobcat66
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Posted: 3/29/2013 7:46 AM
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Monroe's logic also says that undefeated football teams should be ranked regardless of SOS, much like Ohio was after 7 games last year. Enough people agreed with that logic to actually rank Ohio 25th or so, but they certainly weren't the 25th best team by any metric known to man except they had won 7 games so they must be good. How did that work out for Notre Dame last year?
Bobcat110alum
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Posted: 3/29/2013 7:52 AM
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I don't think we can fairly assess this years' crop of mid-majors until the tournament is actually over. If any of them actually advance to the Final Four, or win the title, yes there's an argument for them being up there. I just don't think it's as black and white as you guys are saying. It really depends on the year, the crop of teams in the tournament, their specific level of competition in the tournament, etc. 
Bobcat110alum
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Posted: 3/29/2013 7:53 AM
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That being said, if Wichita State beats OSU and FGCU moves on, they deserve to at least be in the Top 20 at the end of the year.
colobobcat66
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Posted: 3/29/2013 8:25 AM
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How appropriate - A USA headline article today Bracket Briefing/why the best team doesn't win in the Dance. http://m.usatoday.com/article/sports/2030263
Last Edited: 3/29/2013 8:37:30 AM by colobobcat66
Ohio69
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Posted: 3/29/2013 8:34 AM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
How appropriate - A USA headline article today Bracket Breaker- why the best team doesn't win in the Dance


America doesn't have a sport where the best team wins the championship.  The NFL playoffs are a tournament.  Same with NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS, and etc.  And in college football the best team is decided by votes.

So, I find this discussion just plain silly.

You want a sport where the best team wins a championship then start watching European soccer.
Last Edited: 3/29/2013 8:34:41 AM by Ohio69
colobobcat66
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Posted: 3/29/2013 8:38 AM
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No thanks, I will not be watching European soccer
nam1975
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Posted: 3/29/2013 8:52 AM
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Soccer?!

I think some still use it as a propaganda and recruiting tool for Communism.

See the big Mexico vs USA 0-0 match this week.

Sorry for the hijack vent.
Well,, not really.

Bobcat110alum
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Posted: 3/29/2013 8:57 AM
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That actually was a very important result, but if you don't bother to understand the intricacies of the game don't bash something you don't understand or care to understand.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 3/29/2013 9:11 AM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Start now telling me that Florida Gulf Coast University should be ranked worse than #16.

It's what you do


I'll start asserting that they should be ranked worse than #16 if you promise to keep up your end of the bargain and spend all of next year complaining about how they've failed to take the next step every time they lose and declare their new coach (and they'll have one) a failure if he doesn't make the tournament. 

Deal? Deal. 

Last Edited: 3/29/2013 9:12:13 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
nyghtmare
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Posted: 3/29/2013 9:22 AM
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Tyler Charles wrote:expand_more
That actually was a very important result, but if you don't bother to understand the intricacies of the game don't bash something you don't understand or care to understand.


It was like if we went to Duke and tied them on their court.
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 3/29/2013 9:31 AM
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Very interesting discussion (and at least it's not another in the neverending series of "we need to move out of the MAC threads"). 

Ultimately I agree with Monroe.  In a tournament such as this one, for the most part the very best teams are in and playing.  Given that, is there no more fairer way than actually playing your opponent on the basketball court?  It's far more fair than having coaches and computers decide who plays in the championship as they do in the BCS.  You want to prove your the best?  Great, beat your opponent in the game and advance in the tournament.  If you lose, oh well.  At least you were given the chance to win against your opponent and they beat you.  Seems fair to me; that's the nature of competition, by definition there are winners and losers.  Not everyone can win the championship. 

Perhaps the only way that's any fairer is the double elimination tournament they use in the College World Series but that's all I can think of that might be better.

Most importantly, Happy Easter to all of you and your families!  GO BOBCATS!!
Last Edited: 3/29/2013 9:42:06 AM by Mark Lembright '85
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 3/29/2013 9:41 AM
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I think most sports fans know the best team doesn't always win for a variety of reasons.

The truest way to determine a champion is round robin because everyone's strength of schedule is exactly the same. But even then, there are all kinds of things that can alter the standings.
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 3/29/2013 9:47 AM
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This thread signals that it's officially the offseason.

It's like a big pair of novelty scissors and giant red tape to welcome the silly and nonsensical.
west side cat
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Posted: 3/29/2013 9:52 AM
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So I guess by this logic then the 68 teams that make the tournament are the top 68 teams in the country, and the team that wins the NIT is ranked 69th......

And since G'town lost in the first round they should be ranked no higher than 33rd in the season's final rankings.
mf279801
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Posted: 3/29/2013 10:23 AM
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ColumbusCat '11 wrote:expand_more
So Wichita State who beat a suspect Pittsburgh, and overrated Gonzaga and another cinderella team in LaSalle is better than Regular Season outright Big Ten Champ Indiana? Mmmmkay. Its not taking away from a team that goes on a great run in the tournament and earned their way there to say that they may of won games at the right time and werent the better team overall. Was the USA Hockey team better than the Soviets (who absolutely curbstomped the NHL all stars previous to the 1980 Olympics)? No they were not. They took their chance, won the game, but an upset win doesnt all of the sudden make an underdog the superior team. Thats what makes sports and the NCAA tournament special, the best team doesnt always win, just the team that played best that day and sometimes miracles happen. A lesser team winning is what makes it an upset in the first place, or else they would of been favored the whole time.


This logic is waaaaaay too complicated for the thread's original poster to grasp. You're much better off just stringing together a (seemingly?) random series of words, some of them misspelled.
mf279801
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Posted: 3/29/2013 10:25 AM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
How appropriate - A USA headline article today Bracket Breaker- why the best team doesn't win in the Dance


America doesn't have a sport where the best team wins the championship.  The NFL playoffs are a tournament.  Same with NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS, and etc.  And in college football the best team is decided by votes.

So, I find this discussion just plain silly.

You want a sport where the best team wins a championship then start watching European soccer.


I'm not going to watch European-rules kickball.
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