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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Coach Groce wishes three Illini players well in their future endeavors...
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Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 4/1/2013 1:58 PM
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bornacatfan
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Posted: 4/1/2013 3:10 PM
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Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more


I think we call it "getting Asowned" around here.

Big discussion between the group that thinks it is horrible and the group that thinks it is neccessary on their board.

Interesting how they use words .....whe4n Discussing Iowa in the NIT vs being in the NCAA there was an interesting post talking about always striving for the NCAA berth vs the learning expereince of the NIT for a younger team....one poster said ..."you always strive for the NCAA even if you get Akroned in the first round"

Asown caught a break when Stevie Fresh headed out for his record career allowing 44 to return for his 4th and final playing season.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 4/1/2013 4:05 PM
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it was a little different with Sayles as he had already earned his bachelors degree and the Illini 3 are sophomores but I see your point. Maybe getting "Jacobsed" is a more accurate term.
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Posted: 4/1/2013 4:09 PM
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Well we saw how JG could do with Webers guys, so we will now get to see what he does with his players. It might take a year or so, but I'm guessing that he will do better than OK.
Ohio69
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Posted: 4/1/2013 6:50 PM
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Beating my dead horse:  Why do these kids have to sit out a year again?


Pataskala
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Posted: 4/1/2013 8:44 PM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Beating my dead horse:  Why do these kids have to sit out a year again?


According to the story they asked to transfer, so they'll have to sit unless they get some kind of waiver (e.g., family emergency or some kind of special need).  It's not like they were big producers off the bench; the three combined for less than 2 pts a game.
Last Edited: 4/1/2013 8:47:02 PM by Pataskala
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Posted: 4/1/2013 9:54 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Beating my dead horse:  Why do these kids have to sit out a year again?


According to the story they asked to transfer, so they'll have to sit unless they get some kind of waiver (e.g., family emergency or some kind of special need).  It's not like they were big producers off the bench; the three combined for less than 2 pts a game.
By that logic, you would be OK with JC getting rid of Kadeem?
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Posted: 4/1/2013 10:07 PM
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This is one of the worst things about college basketball.  The kids then have to sit out a year when they are forced out.  I think the NCAA as a whole needs to do a better job of making sure teams are not doing this to players.  It is one of the dark secrets that casual fans do not see.  
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Posted: 4/1/2013 10:09 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Beating my dead horse:  Why do these kids have to sit out a year again?


According to the story they asked to transfer, so they'll have to sit unless they get some kind of waiver (e.g., family emergency or some kind of special need).  It's not like they were big producers off the bench; the three combined for less than 2 pts a game.


Your thinking is what is exactly wrong with the situation.  They didn't fit Groce's system so he cuts them from scholarship?  These are student athletes...not professionals.
colobobcat66
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Posted: 4/2/2013 5:54 AM
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How about still retaining them on scholarship to stay at the school, unable to play, as long as they are making academic progress for a total of 4 years. It costs the school, but doesn't count against schollie count of 13. The kid is protected against being dumped and the school pays for making mistake on the player.
colobobcat66
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Posted: 4/2/2013 8:56 AM
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And Huggy Bear is losing 3 at WVU as well. Must be something in the water.
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Posted: 4/2/2013 9:14 AM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
How about still retaining them on scholarship to stay at the school, unable to play, as long as they are making academic progress for a total of 4 years. It costs the school, but doesn't count against schollie count of 13. The kid is protected against being dumped and the school pays for making mistake on the player.


I can't imagine that many kids wanting to take advantage of that. Imagine being a college kid who can play basketball well enough to get a scholarship at Illinois. Wouldn't you want to continue your career somewhere, even if not as prestigious of a place? Crazy that you can be cut by a new coach coming in and then you have to transfer AND sit out a year to continue playing. It's just not right. 
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 4/2/2013 10:04 AM
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the123kid wrote:expand_more
This is one of the worst things about college basketball. The kids then have to sit out a year when they are forced out. I think the NCAA as a whole needs to do a better job of making sure teams are not doing this to players. It is one of the dark secrets that casual fans do not see.



Whats not fair is if they were DI baseball players they could play tomorrow. Hmm, guess they changed that one when they did the APR thing. That's good to know. Sorry for the misinformation
Last Edited: 4/3/2013 5:41:51 AM by BillyTheCat
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Posted: 4/2/2013 10:21 AM
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the123kid wrote:expand_more
This is one of the worst things about college basketball.  The kids then have to sit out a year when they are forced out.  I think the NCAA as a whole needs to do a better job of making sure teams are not doing this to players.  It is one of the dark secrets that casual fans do not see.  


You're right, this sucks, but I guess I understand why the rule is this way. Obviously, when a kid transfers because he doesn't like the coach or his teammates or wants to go to a winning program, the NCAA wants to make sure those players have to sit out a year first so players can't just transfer any time they decide there is somewhere better they could play. You could try to make an exception for players who are sort of forced out of programs but that's going to be really hard to determine. Some of these players leave on their own decision because they realize they're not going to play as much as they want. It would be hard to pick and choose who has to sit out a year and who doesn't.
nam1975
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Posted: 4/2/2013 8:50 PM
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I guess they asked to transfer?

Or did they not have their annual scholarships renewed?
Does B ball work like football in this manner?

SEC football does not renew kids all the time, but most of those kids end up at 1-AA...or whatever they call it. The B1G continues to be vocal anti on this practice.






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Posted: 4/2/2013 9:21 PM
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Typically a coach has one chance to revamp his roster; after his first year.  it is not uncommon for the new coach to urge players he did not personally recruit, but were recruited by the previous coach, to move on.  Technically, you could say he doesn't have to show loyalty to those kids as they weren't "his".  It doesn't make recruiting easier if you run off kids you recruited.  That will be used against you.  Huggins obviously doesn't care, but , otherwise, you don't usually see this from established coaches.  I wondered if JC would keep all his inherited players.  Still not sure he will keep Green on the roster.  Also, their academic standing makes a difference.  If somebody leaves in bad academic standing, it hurts your APR.  Losing those academically eligible does not hurt as much.
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Posted: 4/2/2013 9:55 PM
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HeHateMiami wrote:expand_more
How about still retaining them on scholarship to stay at the school, unable to play, as long as they are making academic progress for a total of 4 years. It costs the school, but doesn't count against schollie count of 13. The kid is protected against being dumped and the school pays for making mistake on the player.


I can't imagine that many kids wanting to take advantage of that. Imagine being a college kid who can play basketball well enough to get a scholarship at Illinois. Wouldn't you want to continue your career somewhere, even if not as prestigious of a place? Crazy that you can be cut by a new coach coming in and then you have to transfer AND sit out a year to continue playing. It's just not right.
. I can't either but it being in place would shut up all the folks in here and other boards that think it's a travesty that the coaches don't honor the scholarships for 4 years . If its just the school they want to attend let them do it. Oh it probably wouldn't shut them up because they just want to bitch about the inequities in the world.
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Posted: 4/2/2013 11:23 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
This is one of the worst things about college basketball.  The kids then have to sit out a year when they are forced out.  I think the NCAA as a whole needs to do a better job of making sure teams are not doing this to players.  It is one of the dark secrets that casual fans do not see.  



Whats not fair is if they were DI baseball players they could play tomorrow.



uh. no.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 4/2/2013 11:33 PM
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Interesting discussion.

Groce meets with players periodically during the year in a formal meeting complete with stats, goals, expectations and progress reports. I got to think that kids knew where  they stood well before they came into that office for the year end review. Groce makes it very clear that schollies are renewed yearly.


As for me.....I like the one year rule for a lot of reasons but let's just step back and look at it from a different perspective. You are being asked to leave the program ( I know it says that you actially asked to be let out) that you commmitted to now that the coach who got you to commit is gone. Now you havea chance to get another year of edjumikations on someone else's dime. YOu have a year to get to know the new coach, new teamies, a new system and a year to fix what was keeping you on the beinch in the first place. A year more of maturity and a year to get used to your new surroundings, new profs and department heads, new campus and all the surroundings of a new school. You also have to figure out what credits are going to transfer and where you are in their program compared to the one you came from. I do not see the downside if I am an athlete looking for a place to land that actually wants me and will play me. Assuming you were good enough to make a B1G roster youshould have some choices even thought there are now 500 plus transfers a year for 341 schools.

It is not a bad thing by any means. Players want to play but players want a lot of things, I think it is better in the bigger picture that they get a year to get things in order. They do not know it...... but in the bigger scheme...it really is better..... I'd take it in a minute.....and I would tell my kid to do the same in a heartbeat.

Ibby is an all B1G Academic team honoree. I hope he is smart enough to take a ride where he is challenged academically and can build his game.
OUVan
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Posted: 4/3/2013 8:01 AM
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Why not have two levels of transfers.  Every year at season end the coach would file a list of scholarships that are being renewed.

1.  Kids that are not having scholarship renewed are free to transfer without sitting out a year.
2.  Kids that are offered renewals but want to transfer have to sit out the year.
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Posted: 4/6/2013 11:39 AM
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OUVan wrote:expand_more
Why not have two levels of transfers.  Every year at season end the coach would file a list of scholarships that are being renewed.

1.  Kids that are not having scholarship renewed are free to transfer without sitting out a year.
2.  Kids that are offered renewals but want to transfer have to sit out the year.


Splendid, simple.
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Posted: 4/6/2013 6:01 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Why not have two levels of transfers.  Every year at season end the coach would file a list of scholarships that are being renewed.

1.  Kids that are not having scholarship renewed are free to transfer without sitting out a year.
2.  Kids that are offered renewals but want to transfer have to sit out the year.


Splendid, simple.


Or why not just let kids transfer without sitting out regardless of the reason, but the school can put together a list of say 10% or 20% of D1 schools where the kid can't transfer without sitting a year.  That would help do away with situations where kids are pressured into asking to transfer because the coach isn't going to play them that much.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 4/6/2013 6:56 PM
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It is really is better the way it is... too much messing with something that is not broke. IMHO. Messing with it would way open Pandora;s box....AAU team mates would take the situation that exists in transfers in HS to a whole new level. LEave it how it is....If anything address the rule on the back end with the incoming coaches who prune their rosters.

There are already almost 500 kids transferring a year with the one year rule. WOuld be interesting to see how many of those have nothing to do with the coaching changes. I got to think the kids have got to figure out how to commit to  a University while ADs figure out how to retain players in a coaching change
OUVan
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Posted: 4/8/2013 11:59 AM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Or why not just let kids transfer without sitting out regardless of the reason, but the school can put together a list of say 10% or 20% of D1 schools where the kid can't transfer without sitting a year.  That would help do away with situations where kids are pressured into asking to transfer because the coach isn't going to play them that much.


Because that would create choas every year.  You'd never know what you need to recuit from year-to-year if it were too easy to transfer.   And it would undoubtably lead to surreptitious recruiting of good mid-major players by big programs.   There has to be a safeguard against willy-nilly transfering IMO.
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Posted: 4/8/2013 12:03 PM
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OUVan wrote:expand_more
Because that would create choas every year.  You'd never know what you need to recuit from year-to-year if it were too easy to transfer.   And it would undoubtably lead to surreptitious recruiting of good mid-major players by big programs.   There has to be a safeguard against willy-nilly transfering IMO.


And were that rule not in place we may very well have seen DJ in Orange for his final 3 years rather than just that All Star game. Now that it is said and done and the offending coach chastised and let go it may still come out anyway.
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