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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: 2023 Transfer Portal
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100%Cat
7/14/2023 10:41 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Not all 2PA are created equal. I didn't get to watch a ton of Clayton last year, so I don't know, but those numbers don't actually say much about his ability in the post.

In fact, the fact that Boals increased his usage from three so substantially seems telling; if Clayton is an effective post player, why are his 3PA numbers ~2x his 2PAs? And, of course, not all 2PA are post touches -- so Boals has chosen to use him in the flow of the offense from behind the arc much, much more than he has in the post. That tells me something.

There's good NBA data available on types of FGA, but suspect that's not available for MAC players. Anybody know of a resource?
Maybe it had something to do with the guys we've had in the post on the roster since Clayton has been here (BVP/Dwight his freshman year, Dwight last year). We didn't NEED him in the post the last two years.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
7/14/2023 12:54 PM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
Not all 2PA are created equal. I didn't get to watch a ton of Clayton last year, so I don't know, but those numbers don't actually say much about his ability in the post.

In fact, the fact that Boals increased his usage from three so substantially seems telling; if Clayton is an effective post player, why are his 3PA numbers ~2x his 2PAs? And, of course, not all 2PA are post touches -- so Boals has chosen to use him in the flow of the offense from behind the arc much, much more than he has in the post. That tells me something.

There's good NBA data available on types of FGA, but suspect that's not available for MAC players. Anybody know of a resource?
Here's the link to looking at player's shot chart -> https://cbbanalytics.com/tools/shot-charts . Just type in Clayton's name. You'll see where all of his shots came from this past season. His 2PA all came in the paint. Further suggesting he has ability in the post and should play closer to the basket.

I don't doubt Boals encourages Clayton to shoot the 3. However, if he was satisfied with how Clayton was playing as a whole; why was he benched in favor of BRod (smaller and statistically less productive)? That should really tell you something.
Did we run post ups for Clayton? Again, didn't watch enough to know. But there's a different between a post touch and a shot taken from 3-5 feet. Shot charts are helpful (thanks for the link) but there's a big difference between a shot taken after a face up and drive and a true post touch.

And to be clear, I didn't say Boals was satisfied with how Clayton was playing. I just suggested that Boals is aware of Clayton's strength as a player.
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BillyTheCat
7/14/2023 1:32 PM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
Not all 2PA are created equal. I didn't get to watch a ton of Clayton last year, so I don't know, but those numbers don't actually say much about his ability in the post.

In fact, the fact that Boals increased his usage from three so substantially seems telling; if Clayton is an effective post player, why are his 3PA numbers ~2x his 2PAs? And, of course, not all 2PA are post touches -- so Boals has chosen to use him in the flow of the offense from behind the arc much, much more than he has in the post. That tells me something.

There's good NBA data available on types of FGA, but suspect that's not available for MAC players. Anybody know of a resource?
Here's the link to looking at player's shot chart -> https://cbbanalytics.com/tools/shot-charts . Just type in Clayton's name. You'll see where all of his shots came from this past season. His 2PA all came in the paint. Further suggesting he has ability in the post and should play closer to the basket.

I don't doubt Boals encourages Clayton to shoot the 3. However, if he was satisfied with how Clayton was playing as a whole; why was he benched in favor of BRod (smaller and statistically less productive)? That should really tell you something.
So, what your shot chart does not show, is how many of those shots in the paint were created off the dribble or cut, vs a post up.
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FJC31
7/14/2023 1:53 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Not all 2PA are created equal. I didn't get to watch a ton of Clayton last year, so I don't know, but those numbers don't actually say much about his ability in the post.

In fact, the fact that Boals increased his usage from three so substantially seems telling; if Clayton is an effective post player, why are his 3PA numbers ~2x his 2PAs? And, of course, not all 2PA are post touches -- so Boals has chosen to use him in the flow of the offense from behind the arc much, much more than he has in the post. That tells me something.

There's good NBA data available on types of FGA, but suspect that's not available for MAC players. Anybody know of a resource?
Here's the link to looking at player's shot chart -> https://cbbanalytics.com/tools/shot-charts . Just type in Clayton's name. You'll see where all of his shots came from this past season. His 2PA all came in the paint. Further suggesting he has ability in the post and should play closer to the basket.

I don't doubt Boals encourages Clayton to shoot the 3. However, if he was satisfied with how Clayton was playing as a whole; why was he benched in favor of BRod (smaller and statistically less productive)? That should really tell you something.
So, what your shot chart does not show, is how many of those shots in the paint were created off the dribble or cut, vs a post up.
LOL. He could be taking those shots blind-folded; it still doesn't change the fact he's more effective in the paint than outside of it.

Also, if you hover your mouse over the icons, the chart shows how close he was to the basket and the FG%. Clayton shot 62% (28/45) 0-2 ft. from the rim.
Last Edited: 7/14/2023 2:07:00 PM by FJC31
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
7/14/2023 2:41 PM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
Not all 2PA are created equal. I didn't get to watch a ton of Clayton last year, so I don't know, but those numbers don't actually say much about his ability in the post.

In fact, the fact that Boals increased his usage from three so substantially seems telling; if Clayton is an effective post player, why are his 3PA numbers ~2x his 2PAs? And, of course, not all 2PA are post touches -- so Boals has chosen to use him in the flow of the offense from behind the arc much, much more than he has in the post. That tells me something.

There's good NBA data available on types of FGA, but suspect that's not available for MAC players. Anybody know of a resource?
Here's the link to looking at player's shot chart -> https://cbbanalytics.com/tools/shot-charts . Just type in Clayton's name. You'll see where all of his shots came from this past season. His 2PA all came in the paint. Further suggesting he has ability in the post and should play closer to the basket.

I don't doubt Boals encourages Clayton to shoot the 3. However, if he was satisfied with how Clayton was playing as a whole; why was he benched in favor of BRod (smaller and statistically less productive)? That should really tell you something.
So, what your shot chart does not show, is how many of those shots in the paint were created off the dribble or cut, vs a post up.
LOL. He could be taking those shots blind-folded; it still doesn't change the fact he's more effective in the paint than outside of it.

Also, if you hover your mouse over the icons, the chart shows how close he was to the basket and the FG%. Clayton shot 62% (28/45) 0-2 ft. from the rim.

Clayton's 62% is below the NCAA average by 0.6%. He's basically replacement level from that range. Every player in the NCAA is a better shooter from 0-2 feet, and every coach would like to create more shots from 0-2 feet. If Boals can figure out how to get Clayton -- or literally anybody else -- shots from 0-2 feet that's a good strategy. I'm all for it.

But what's really relevant is whether or not those touches were designed post plays, or if the bulk of his opportunities from that range were from face ups, drives, put backs, in transition, etc. That Clayton was average at the rim doesn't mean he's a good post player.

What really jumps out to me about Clayton's shot chart is that from three he's a lights out shooter from the top of the key to the foul line extended on the right side of the court. He was 19 of 34 (56%) in that area. We should be drawing up plays to get him shots there a lot until that proves a fluke.
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FJC31
7/14/2023 3:32 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Not all 2PA are created equal. I didn't get to watch a ton of Clayton last year, so I don't know, but those numbers don't actually say much about his ability in the post.

In fact, the fact that Boals increased his usage from three so substantially seems telling; if Clayton is an effective post player, why are his 3PA numbers ~2x his 2PAs? And, of course, not all 2PA are post touches -- so Boals has chosen to use him in the flow of the offense from behind the arc much, much more than he has in the post. That tells me something.

There's good NBA data available on types of FGA, but suspect that's not available for MAC players. Anybody know of a resource?
Here's the link to looking at player's shot chart -> https://cbbanalytics.com/tools/shot-charts . Just type in Clayton's name. You'll see where all of his shots came from this past season. His 2PA all came in the paint. Further suggesting he has ability in the post and should play closer to the basket.

I don't doubt Boals encourages Clayton to shoot the 3. However, if he was satisfied with how Clayton was playing as a whole; why was he benched in favor of BRod (smaller and statistically less productive)? That should really tell you something.
So, what your shot chart does not show, is how many of those shots in the paint were created off the dribble or cut, vs a post up.
LOL. He could be taking those shots blind-folded; it still doesn't change the fact he's more effective in the paint than outside of it.

Also, if you hover your mouse over the icons, the chart shows how close he was to the basket and the FG%. Clayton shot 62% (28/45) 0-2 ft. from the rim.

Clayton's 62% is below the NCAA average by 0.6%. He's basically replacement level from that range. Every player in the NCAA is a better shooter from 0-2 feet, and every coach would like to create more shots from 0-2 feet. If Boals can figure out how to get Clayton -- or literally anybody else -- shots from 0-2 feet that's a good strategy. I'm all for it.

But what's really relevant is whether or not those touches were designed post plays, or if the bulk of his opportunities from that range were from face ups, drives, put backs, in transition, etc. That Clayton was average at the rim doesn't mean he's a good post player.

What really jumps out to me about Clayton's shot chart is that from three he's a lights out shooter from the top of the key to the foul line extended on the right side of the court. He was 19 of 34 (56%) in that area. We should be drawing up plays to get him shots there a lot until that proves a fluke.
My point of this discussion topic has never been about Clayton vs the rest of the NCAA; it's been about Clayton inside vs Clayton outside the arc. But sure, he shoots nearly 10% above the NCAA average 3-5 ft from the rim at 67%. As it relates to that one hot spot from 3, we ran plays for that specifically. I think that makes sense.

That said, no matter which way you slice it, Clayton plays more effectively inside the arc whether he's cutting, pulling up, right under the basket, whatever. He's 6'8. We have a need for a competent big and statistical evidence that supports Clayton's ability to do so. He doesn't need to be DW3/back against the basket. He just needs to be better than Clayton last year and that starts with shot selection.
Last Edited: 7/14/2023 3:34:11 PM by FJC31
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FearLeon
7/14/2023 4:02 PM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
Not all 2PA are created equal. I didn't get to watch a ton of Clayton last year, so I don't know, but those numbers don't actually say much about his ability in the post.

In fact, the fact that Boals increased his usage from three so substantially seems telling; if Clayton is an effective post player, why are his 3PA numbers ~2x his 2PAs? And, of course, not all 2PA are post touches -- so Boals has chosen to use him in the flow of the offense from behind the arc much, much more than he has in the post. That tells me something.

There's good NBA data available on types of FGA, but suspect that's not available for MAC players. Anybody know of a resource?
Here's the link to looking at player's shot chart -> https://cbbanalytics.com/tools/shot-charts . Just type in Clayton's name. You'll see where all of his shots came from this past season. His 2PA all came in the paint. Further suggesting he has ability in the post and should play closer to the basket.

I don't doubt Boals encourages Clayton to shoot the 3. However, if he was satisfied with how Clayton was playing as a whole; why was he benched in favor of BRod (smaller and statistically less productive)? That should really tell you something.
So, what your shot chart does not show, is how many of those shots in the paint were created off the dribble or cut, vs a post up.
LOL. He could be taking those shots blind-folded; it still doesn't change the fact he's more effective in the paint than outside of it.

Also, if you hover your mouse over the icons, the chart shows how close he was to the basket and the FG%. Clayton shot 62% (28/45) 0-2 ft. from the rim.

Clayton's 62% is below the NCAA average by 0.6%. He's basically replacement level from that range. Every player in the NCAA is a better shooter from 0-2 feet, and every coach would like to create more shots from 0-2 feet. If Boals can figure out how to get Clayton -- or literally anybody else -- shots from 0-2 feet that's a good strategy. I'm all for it.

But what's really relevant is whether or not those touches were designed post plays, or if the bulk of his opportunities from that range were from face ups, drives, put backs, in transition, etc. That Clayton was average at the rim doesn't mean he's a good post player.

What really jumps out to me about Clayton's shot chart is that from three he's a lights out shooter from the top of the key to the foul line extended on the right side of the court. He was 19 of 34 (56%) in that area. We should be drawing up plays to get him shots there a lot until that proves a fluke.
He just needs to be better than Clayton last year and that starts with shot selection.
^^^^This

He just needs to be better.

I think people are blinded by three games last year when Clayton made four three-pointers in a game. Take away those games...and sorry....Clayton was dreadful last year. He took a step backwards and in my opinion he was the biggest disappointment on the 2022-2023 roster. Boals couldn't reign him in from the 3 point line. He has to find a mid-range game moving forward. Clayton pulled a David Copperfield last season and just flat out disappeared in games. Newsflash....Clayton ain't Dave Jamerson. Somebody better tell him that.
Last Edited: 7/14/2023 4:11:12 PM by FearLeon
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mid70sbobcat
7/15/2023 12:38 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Denny Rusch's best game was trashing talking and dirty shots at opponents when the refs weren't looking.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I was a student then. And I suspect I may have gotten to know him a bit more than you.
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mid70sbobcat
7/15/2023 12:46 AM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
Not all 2PA are created equal. I didn't get to watch a ton of Clayton last year, so I don't know, but those numbers don't actually say much about his ability in the post.

In fact, the fact that Boals increased his usage from three so substantially seems telling; if Clayton is an effective post player, why are his 3PA numbers ~2x his 2PAs? And, of course, not all 2PA are post touches -- so Boals has chosen to use him in the flow of the offense from behind the arc much, much more than he has in the post. That tells me something.

There's good NBA data available on types of FGA, but suspect that's not available for MAC players. Anybody know of a resource?
Here's the link to looking at player's shot chart -> https://cbbanalytics.com/tools/shot-charts . Just type in Clayton's name. You'll see where all of his shots came from this past season. His 2PA all came in the paint. Further suggesting he has ability in the post and should play closer to the basket.

I don't doubt Boals encourages Clayton to shoot the 3. However, if he was satisfied with how Clayton was playing as a whole; why was he benched in favor of BRod (smaller and statistically less productive)? That should really tell you something.
So, what your shot chart does not show, is how many of those shots in the paint were created off the dribble or cut, vs a post up.
LOL. He could be taking those shots blind-folded; it still doesn't change the fact he's more effective in the paint than outside of it.

Also, if you hover your mouse over the icons, the chart shows how close he was to the basket and the FG%. Clayton shot 62% (28/45) 0-2 ft. from the rim.

Clayton's 62% is below the NCAA average by 0.6%. He's basically replacement level from that range. Every player in the NCAA is a better shooter from 0-2 feet, and every coach would like to create more shots from 0-2 feet. If Boals can figure out how to get Clayton -- or literally anybody else -- shots from 0-2 feet that's a good strategy. I'm all for it.

But what's really relevant is whether or not those touches were designed post plays, or if the bulk of his opportunities from that range were from face ups, drives, put backs, in transition, etc. That Clayton was average at the rim doesn't mean he's a good post player.

What really jumps out to me about Clayton's shot chart is that from three he's a lights out shooter from the top of the key to the foul line extended on the right side of the court. He was 19 of 34 (56%) in that area. We should be drawing up plays to get him shots there a lot until that proves a fluke.
My point of this discussion topic has never been about Clayton vs the rest of the NCAA; it's been about Clayton inside vs Clayton outside the arc. But sure, he shoots nearly 10% above the NCAA average 3-5 ft from the rim at 67%. As it relates to that one hot spot from 3, we ran plays for that specifically. I think that makes sense.

That said, no matter which way you slice it, Clayton plays more effectively inside the arc whether he's cutting, pulling up, right under the basket, whatever. He's 6'8. We have a need for a competent big and statistical evidence that supports Clayton's ability to do so. He doesn't need to be DW3/back against the basket. He just needs to be better than Clayton last year and that starts with shot selection.

And inside the arc he can offset the 50 percent more points he makes when he hits a 3?

If you're back in Athens take a Statistics course.
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mid70sbobcat
7/15/2023 12:50 AM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Not all 2PA are created equal. I didn't get to watch a ton of Clayton last year, so I don't know, but those numbers don't actually say much about his ability in the post.

In fact, the fact that Boals increased his usage from three so substantially seems telling; if Clayton is an effective post player, why are his 3PA numbers ~2x his 2PAs? And, of course, not all 2PA are post touches -- so Boals has chosen to use him in the flow of the offense from behind the arc much, much more than he has in the post. That tells me something.

There's good NBA data available on types of FGA, but suspect that's not available for MAC players. Anybody know of a resource?
Here's the link to looking at player's shot chart -> https://cbbanalytics.com/tools/shot-charts . Just type in Clayton's name. You'll see where all of his shots came from this past season. His 2PA all came in the paint. Further suggesting he has ability in the post and should play closer to the basket.

I don't doubt Boals encourages Clayton to shoot the 3. However, if he was satisfied with how Clayton was playing as a whole; why was he benched in favor of BRod (smaller and statistically less productive)? That should really tell you something.
So, what your shot chart does not show, is how many of those shots in the paint were created off the dribble or cut, vs a post up.
LOL. He could be taking those shots blind-folded; it still doesn't change the fact he's more effective in the paint than outside of it.

Also, if you hover your mouse over the icons, the chart shows how close he was to the basket and the FG%. Clayton shot 62% (28/45) 0-2 ft. from the rim.

Clayton's 62% is below the NCAA average by 0.6%. He's basically replacement level from that range. Every player in the NCAA is a better shooter from 0-2 feet, and every coach would like to create more shots from 0-2 feet. If Boals can figure out how to get Clayton -- or literally anybody else -- shots from 0-2 feet that's a good strategy. I'm all for it.

But what's really relevant is whether or not those touches were designed post plays, or if the bulk of his opportunities from that range were from face ups, drives, put backs, in transition, etc. That Clayton was average at the rim doesn't mean he's a good post player.

What really jumps out to me about Clayton's shot chart is that from three he's a lights out shooter from the top of the key to the foul line extended on the right side of the court. He was 19 of 34 (56%) in that area. We should be drawing up plays to get him shots there a lot until that proves a fluke.
He just needs to be better than Clayton last year and that starts with shot selection.
^^^^This

He just needs to be better.

I think people are blinded by three games last year when Clayton made four three-pointers in a game. Take away those games...and sorry....Clayton was dreadful last year. He took a step backwards and in my opinion he was the biggest disappointment on the 2022-2023 roster. Boals couldn't reign him in from the 3 point line. He has to find a mid-range game moving forward. Clayton pulled a David Copperfield last season and just flat out disappeared in games. Newsflash....Clayton ain't Dave Jamerson. Somebody better tell him that.

Was Jamerson 6'8"? If not mistaken, Jamerson was a shooting guard. Let's compare apples to oranges.

Speaking of somebody telling someone things .. maybe someone needs to tell your savior of Ohio basketball he needs to be able to recruit bigs better.
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FJC31
7/15/2023 8:16 AM
mid70sbobcat wrote:expand_more
Not all 2PA are created equal. I didn't get to watch a ton of Clayton last year, so I don't know, but those numbers don't actually say much about his ability in the post.

In fact, the fact that Boals increased his usage from three so substantially seems telling; if Clayton is an effective post player, why are his 3PA numbers ~2x his 2PAs? And, of course, not all 2PA are post touches -- so Boals has chosen to use him in the flow of the offense from behind the arc much, much more than he has in the post. That tells me something.

There's good NBA data available on types of FGA, but suspect that's not available for MAC players. Anybody know of a resource?
Here's the link to looking at player's shot chart -> https://cbbanalytics.com/tools/shot-charts . Just type in Clayton's name. You'll see where all of his shots came from this past season. His 2PA all came in the paint. Further suggesting he has ability in the post and should play closer to the basket.

I don't doubt Boals encourages Clayton to shoot the 3. However, if he was satisfied with how Clayton was playing as a whole; why was he benched in favor of BRod (smaller and statistically less productive)? That should really tell you something.
So, what your shot chart does not show, is how many of those shots in the paint were created off the dribble or cut, vs a post up.
LOL. He could be taking those shots blind-folded; it still doesn't change the fact he's more effective in the paint than outside of it.

Also, if you hover your mouse over the icons, the chart shows how close he was to the basket and the FG%. Clayton shot 62% (28/45) 0-2 ft. from the rim.

Clayton's 62% is below the NCAA average by 0.6%. He's basically replacement level from that range. Every player in the NCAA is a better shooter from 0-2 feet, and every coach would like to create more shots from 0-2 feet. If Boals can figure out how to get Clayton -- or literally anybody else -- shots from 0-2 feet that's a good strategy. I'm all for it.

But what's really relevant is whether or not those touches were designed post plays, or if the bulk of his opportunities from that range were from face ups, drives, put backs, in transition, etc. That Clayton was average at the rim doesn't mean he's a good post player.

What really jumps out to me about Clayton's shot chart is that from three he's a lights out shooter from the top of the key to the foul line extended on the right side of the court. He was 19 of 34 (56%) in that area. We should be drawing up plays to get him shots there a lot until that proves a fluke.
My point of this discussion topic has never been about Clayton vs the rest of the NCAA; it's been about Clayton inside vs Clayton outside the arc. But sure, he shoots nearly 10% above the NCAA average 3-5 ft from the rim at 67%. As it relates to that one hot spot from 3, we ran plays for that specifically. I think that makes sense.

That said, no matter which way you slice it, Clayton plays more effectively inside the arc whether he's cutting, pulling up, right under the basket, whatever. He's 6'8. We have a need for a competent big and statistical evidence that supports Clayton's ability to do so. He doesn't need to be DW3/back against the basket. He just needs to be better than Clayton last year and that starts with shot selection.

And inside the arc he can offset the 50 percent more points he makes when he hits a 3?

If you're back in Athens take a Statistics course.
FT included (since this is part of my point), Clayton only scored 7 more points total from than 3 than inside the arc. Without, 42 points — not even close to 50%. Next.

Also, please read my posts all the way through if you can’t debate. Not once have I said Clayton should abandon the 3 altogether. Just that he should be shooting less from that far away because…you know…..statistics.
Last Edited: 7/15/2023 8:30:00 AM by FJC31
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BillyTheCat
7/15/2023 12:29 PM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
Not all 2PA are created equal. I didn't get to watch a ton of Clayton last year, so I don't know, but those numbers don't actually say much about his ability in the post.

In fact, the fact that Boals increased his usage from three so substantially seems telling; if Clayton is an effective post player, why are his 3PA numbers ~2x his 2PAs? And, of course, not all 2PA are post touches -- so Boals has chosen to use him in the flow of the offense from behind the arc much, much more than he has in the post. That tells me something.

There's good NBA data available on types of FGA, but suspect that's not available for MAC players. Anybody know of a resource?
Here's the link to looking at player's shot chart -> https://cbbanalytics.com/tools/shot-charts . Just type in Clayton's name. You'll see where all of his shots came from this past season. His 2PA all came in the paint. Further suggesting he has ability in the post and should play closer to the basket.

I don't doubt Boals encourages Clayton to shoot the 3. However, if he was satisfied with how Clayton was playing as a whole; why was he benched in favor of BRod (smaller and statistically less productive)? That should really tell you something.
So, what your shot chart does not show, is how many of those shots in the paint were created off the dribble or cut, vs a post up.
LOL. He could be taking those shots blind-folded; it still doesn't change the fact he's more effective in the paint than outside of it.

Also, if you hover your mouse over the icons, the chart shows how close he was to the basket and the FG%. Clayton shot 62% (28/45) 0-2 ft. from the rim.
News flash!!!! ALMOST every player in the country at all levels shoot better the closer you are to the basket.
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FJC31
7/15/2023 12:56 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Not all 2PA are created equal. I didn't get to watch a ton of Clayton last year, so I don't know, but those numbers don't actually say much about his ability in the post.

In fact, the fact that Boals increased his usage from three so substantially seems telling; if Clayton is an effective post player, why are his 3PA numbers ~2x his 2PAs? And, of course, not all 2PA are post touches -- so Boals has chosen to use him in the flow of the offense from behind the arc much, much more than he has in the post. That tells me something.

There's good NBA data available on types of FGA, but suspect that's not available for MAC players. Anybody know of a resource?
Here's the link to looking at player's shot chart -> https://cbbanalytics.com/tools/shot-charts . Just type in Clayton's name. You'll see where all of his shots came from this past season. His 2PA all came in the paint. Further suggesting he has ability in the post and should play closer to the basket.

I don't doubt Boals encourages Clayton to shoot the 3. However, if he was satisfied with how Clayton was playing as a whole; why was he benched in favor of BRod (smaller and statistically less productive)? That should really tell you something.
So, what your shot chart does not show, is how many of those shots in the paint were created off the dribble or cut, vs a post up.
LOL. He could be taking those shots blind-folded; it still doesn't change the fact he's more effective in the paint than outside of it.

Also, if you hover your mouse over the icons, the chart shows how close he was to the basket and the FG%. Clayton shot 62% (28/45) 0-2 ft. from the rim.
News flash!!!! ALMOST every player in the country at all levels shoot better the closer you are to the basket.
Which is exactly why they (and Clayton in particular) should be taking more shots closer.
Last Edited: 7/15/2023 12:59:34 PM by FJC31
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OhioCatFan
7/15/2023 12:58 PM
mid70sbobcat wrote:expand_more
Denny Rusch's best game was trashing talking and dirty shots at opponents when the refs weren't looking.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I was a student then. And I suspect I may have gotten to know him a bit more than you.
I was teaching at Marshall at that time, but I did get back to Athens for a lot of weekend games, and those during Christmas breaks. I didn't know Denny personally at all. But, he is to this day the only OHIO player in any sport that I remember booing because of his bad sportsmanship. I remember one game in which I stood up and yelled at Coach Snyder to take in out of the game after one of his antics, which occurred right in front of me and out of the view of the officials who were already further down court. Maybe I did not see a representative sample of his game performances, but what I did see I didn't like.
Last Edited: 7/15/2023 1:00:05 PM by OhioCatFan
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Victory
7/15/2023 2:14 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Not all 2PA are created equal. I didn't get to watch a ton of Clayton last year, so I don't know, but those numbers don't actually say much about his ability in the post.

In fact, the fact that Boals increased his usage from three so substantially seems telling; if Clayton is an effective post player, why are his 3PA numbers ~2x his 2PAs? And, of course, not all 2PA are post touches -- so Boals has chosen to use him in the flow of the offense from behind the arc much, much more than he has in the post. That tells me something.

There's good NBA data available on types of FGA, but suspect that's not available for MAC players. Anybody know of a resource?
Here's the link to looking at player's shot chart -> https://cbbanalytics.com/tools/shot-charts . Just type in Clayton's name. You'll see where all of his shots came from this past season. His 2PA all came in the paint. Further suggesting he has ability in the post and should play closer to the basket.

I don't doubt Boals encourages Clayton to shoot the 3. However, if he was satisfied with how Clayton was playing as a whole; why was he benched in favor of BRod (smaller and statistically less productive)? That should really tell you something.
So, what your shot chart does not show, is how many of those shots in the paint were created off the dribble or cut, vs a post up.
LOL. He could be taking those shots blind-folded; it still doesn't change the fact he's more effective in the paint than outside of it.

Also, if you hover your mouse over the icons, the chart shows how close he was to the basket and the FG%. Clayton shot 62% (28/45) 0-2 ft. from the rim.
News flash!!!! ALMOST every player in the country at all levels shoot better the closer you are to the basket.
That's the point. But shooting 36% from just outside the arc and 54% from anywhere inside of it are of the same value. Look at NBA shot charts now vs. 20 years ago. 8-20 ft. jump shots are disappearing.

Before the 3-point line existed defenses' vigorously defended the paint. The closer you were the basket the less likely you were to be open so sometimes you took a 12 foot wide open jump shot. But with the 3-point line offenses were not always looking to get closer because open 3-pointers were more valuable than anything except open shots right near the basket, the defense was stretched to defend what were now some of the best offensive opportunities behind the line, and layups and dunks and other post opportunities became an little easier to find. Then the charge circle made defense near the basket that much harder. The rule changes and analytics turned basketball into mostly 3-pointers, layups and other shots in the post, and foul shots.

The charts on Clayton show relative value. Oddly, there is a stretch behind the line that he is much. much, relatively better than everywhere else behind it. But other than that they show his value is underneath.
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FearLeon
7/15/2023 4:57 PM
mid70sbobcat wrote:expand_more
Not all 2PA are created equal. I didn't get to watch a ton of Clayton last year, so I don't know, but those numbers don't actually say much about his ability in the post.

In fact, the fact that Boals increased his usage from three so substantially seems telling; if Clayton is an effective post player, why are his 3PA numbers ~2x his 2PAs? And, of course, not all 2PA are post touches -- so Boals has chosen to use him in the flow of the offense from behind the arc much, much more than he has in the post. That tells me something.

There's good NBA data available on types of FGA, but suspect that's not available for MAC players. Anybody know of a resource?
Here's the link to looking at player's shot chart -> https://cbbanalytics.com/tools/shot-charts . Just type in Clayton's name. You'll see where all of his shots came from this past season. His 2PA all came in the paint. Further suggesting he has ability in the post and should play closer to the basket.

I don't doubt Boals encourages Clayton to shoot the 3. However, if he was satisfied with how Clayton was playing as a whole; why was he benched in favor of BRod (smaller and statistically less productive)? That should really tell you something.
So, what your shot chart does not show, is how many of those shots in the paint were created off the dribble or cut, vs a post up.
LOL. He could be taking those shots blind-folded; it still doesn't change the fact he's more effective in the paint than outside of it.

Also, if you hover your mouse over the icons, the chart shows how close he was to the basket and the FG%. Clayton shot 62% (28/45) 0-2 ft. from the rim.

Clayton's 62% is below the NCAA average by 0.6%. He's basically replacement level from that range. Every player in the NCAA is a better shooter from 0-2 feet, and every coach would like to create more shots from 0-2 feet. If Boals can figure out how to get Clayton -- or literally anybody else -- shots from 0-2 feet that's a good strategy. I'm all for it.

But what's really relevant is whether or not those touches were designed post plays, or if the bulk of his opportunities from that range were from face ups, drives, put backs, in transition, etc. That Clayton was average at the rim doesn't mean he's a good post player.

What really jumps out to me about Clayton's shot chart is that from three he's a lights out shooter from the top of the key to the foul line extended on the right side of the court. He was 19 of 34 (56%) in that area. We should be drawing up plays to get him shots there a lot until that proves a fluke.
He just needs to be better than Clayton last year and that starts with shot selection.
^^^^This

He just needs to be better.

I think people are blinded by three games last year when Clayton made four three-pointers in a game. Take away those games...and sorry....Clayton was dreadful last year. He took a step backwards and in my opinion he was the biggest disappointment on the 2022-2023 roster. Boals couldn't reign him in from the 3 point line. He has to find a mid-range game moving forward. Clayton pulled a David Copperfield last season and just flat out disappeared in games. Newsflash....Clayton ain't Dave Jamerson. Somebody better tell him that.

Speaking of somebody telling someone things .. maybe someone needs to tell your savior of Ohio basketball he needs to be able to recruit bigs better.
This is what we call a freezing cold take mid-70sbobcat. Welcome to Athens 6-10 Ayden Evans! Evans...a 4 star recruit... had offers from Missouri, Texas A & M, West Virginia, Seton Hall...just to name a few.

https://twitter.com/aydenevans9/status/168031797321755033...
Last Edited: 7/15/2023 5:36:47 PM by FearLeon
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FearLeon
7/15/2023 5:11 PM
Last Edited: 7/15/2023 5:13:06 PM by FearLeon
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greencat
7/15/2023 7:24 PM
Offers from three SEC schools.
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person
Victory
7/15/2023 8:11 PM
Now we need to keep Boals around for 2024. If we can keep AJ Brown, Shareef Mitchell, Ike Cornish, and Elmore James, and Clayton, Wiznitzer, Hadaway or Ezuma develops some it feels like we could be quite good. But as we have seen in years past its a big if...especially in this portal era.
Last Edited: 7/15/2023 8:11:41 PM by Victory
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person
71 BOBCAT
7/17/2023 10:07 AM
The wild card to next year is IJ. We need a good center cause Wiz is not the answer as a starter. He is a 15 Min. guy at best.
Clayton, unfortunately, is inconsistent. He had some very good 3pt shooting nights and some poor 3pt nights.




GO BOBCATS
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M.D.W.S.T
7/17/2023 11:05 AM
Victory wrote:expand_more
Now we need to keep Boals around for 2024. If we can keep AJ Brown, Shareef Mitchell, Ike Cornish, and Elmore James, and Clayton, Wiznitzer, Hadaway or Ezuma develops some it feels like we could be quite good. But as we have seen in years past its a big if...especially in this portal era.
I'm excited about what this team could be if it stays together come 2024. Now adding Ayden to the mix... something special could be brewing.

AJB, still a flight risk to me. I don't think we see him in Athens beyond next season. Especially with how poor Florida and Florida State have been recently.
EJ, could either be gone next season or a five year glue guy. Neither would surprise me.

The wildcards, still, are anyone over 6'3" (not named Ike). Gotta develop some of these 3-4-5 guys. The portal is wild, but I dont want to *HAVE TO* rely on it every year.
Last Edited: 7/17/2023 11:06:29 AM by M.D.W.S.T
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Victory
7/25/2023 4:57 PM
Does anyone know what's going on with Olumide Adelodun? As far as I know he hasn't transferred anywhere yet.
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greencat
7/25/2023 7:38 PM
Victory wrote:expand_more
Does anyone know what's going on with Olumide Adelodun? As far as I know he hasn't transferred anywhere yet.
Maybe he can walk on at Our Lady of the Holy Weeping Virgin College in Waukegan.
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GraffZ06
7/25/2023 10:25 PM
greencat wrote:expand_more
Does anyone know what's going on with Olumide Adelodun? As far as I know he hasn't transferred anywhere yet.
Maybe he can walk on at Our Lady of the Holy Weeping Virgin College in Waukegan.
Is that supposed to be a cheap dig?

It won't happen but I'd take him back as a walk on in a minute. Tons of athletic ability just can't shoot the basketball.
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M.D.W.S.T
7/26/2023 9:03 AM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
Does anyone know what's going on with Olumide Adelodun? As far as I know he hasn't transferred anywhere yet.
Maybe he can walk on at Our Lady of the Holy Weeping Virgin College in Waukegan.
Is that supposed to be a cheap dig?

It won't happen but I'd take him back as a walk on in a minute. Tons of athletic ability just can't shoot the basketball.
Can he set a screen?
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