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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: OT: Hartford makes The Dance, then drops to D3
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Pataskala
5/7/2021 6:54 PM
They made the their first NCAA tourney appearance this year and now are transitioning to D3. They say they're doing it to "allow the University to further strengthen the academic, co-curricular, and wellness experience for all students." That probably translates into "we're losing money." Not well received by some athletes on campus.

https://www.si.com/college/2021/05/07/hartford-hawks-athl...
Last Edited: 5/7/2021 6:57:13 PM by Pataskala
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Brufus
5/7/2021 8:23 PM
I remember reading once that Tulane was going to make the same move in the 1990s, but then stopped because of public outcry. Any thoughts on if that may happen here?
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Jeff McKinney
5/8/2021 2:26 AM
I doubt that there will be much of a "public outcry" at Hartford.

The explanation they gave is crap.
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FearLeon
5/8/2021 10:25 AM
Brufus wrote:expand_more
Any thoughts on if that may happen here?
Ummm.....no. But a fair many here wouldn't mind seeing football drop a level.
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OhioCatFan
5/8/2021 11:06 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Any thoughts on if that may happen here?
Ummm.....no. But a fair many here wouldn't mind seeing football drop a level.
That would not be a wise move, and would not actually help the budget in the long run, as L.C. has pointed out on the football forum several times in excruciating detail, as only he can do. Now, if we dropped to Div III we could save a lot of dough, but do you really want to do that?
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FearLeon
5/9/2021 2:56 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Any thoughts on if that may happen here?
Ummm.....no. But a fair many here wouldn't mind seeing football drop a level.
That would not be a wise move, and would not actually help the budget in the long run, as L.C. has pointed out on the football forum several times in excruciating detail, as only he can do. Now, if we dropped to Div III we could save a lot of dough, but do you really want to do that?
If dropping football D3 enhances the basketball program.....100% I'm all for it.
Last Edited: 5/9/2021 8:23:00 PM by FearLeon
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OhioCatFan
5/9/2021 11:24 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Any thoughts on if that may happen here?
Ummm.....no. But a fair many here wouldn't mind seeing football drop a level.
That would not be a wise move, and would not actually help the budget in the long run, as L.C. has pointed out on the football forum several times in excruciating detail, as only he can do. Now, if we dropped to Div III we could save a lot of dough, but do you really want to do that?
If dropping football D3 enhances the basketball program.....100% I'm all for it.
You, sir, are an extremist. I love you, brother, but you are a fringe minority in this particular position. (It's possible that you really don't mean this, and are simply bating me; if so, I took the bait.)
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BillyTheCat
5/10/2021 9:03 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Any thoughts on if that may happen here?
Ummm.....no. But a fair many here wouldn't mind seeing football drop a level.
That would not be a wise move, and would not actually help the budget in the long run, as L.C. has pointed out on the football forum several times in excruciating detail, as only he can do. Now, if we dropped to Div III we could save a lot of dough, but do you really want to do that?
If dropping football D3 enhances the basketball program.....100% I'm all for it.
You, sir, are an extremist. I love you, brother, but you are a fringe minority in this particular position. (It's possible that you really don't mean this, and are simply bating me; if so, I took the bait.)
There are more people than you think on this board who follows this line of thinking.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
5/10/2021 11:38 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Any thoughts on if that may happen here?
Ummm.....no. But a fair many here wouldn't mind seeing football drop a level.
That would not be a wise move, and would not actually help the budget in the long run, as L.C. has pointed out on the football forum several times in excruciating detail, as only he can do. Now, if we dropped to Div III we could save a lot of dough, but do you really want to do that?
If dropping football D3 enhances the basketball program.....100% I'm all for it.
You, sir, are an extremist. I love you, brother, but you are a fringe minority in this particular position. (It's possible that you really don't mean this, and are simply bating me; if so, I took the bait.)
There are more people than you think on this board who follows this line of thinking.
I'm not sure how popular the D3 option is, but I personally find nothing particularly inspiring about the current situation our football program finds itself in.

We compete in a middling league, are not eligible for a national championship, and our best seasons result in playing in a bowl game in some weird, small city with an even weirder sponsor. There's just not any upside to get excited about.
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FearLeon
5/10/2021 11:45 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Any thoughts on if that may happen here?
Ummm.....no. But a fair many here wouldn't mind seeing football drop a level.
That would not be a wise move, and would not actually help the budget in the long run, as L.C. has pointed out on the football forum several times in excruciating detail, as only he can do. Now, if we dropped to Div III we could save a lot of dough, but do you really want to do that?
If dropping football D3 enhances the basketball program.....100% I'm all for it.
You, sir, are an extremist. I love you, brother, but you are a fringe minority in this particular position. (It's possible that you really don't mean this, and are simply bating me; if so, I took the bait.)
There are more people than you think on this board who follows this line of thinking.
I'm not sure how popular the D3 option is, but I personally find nothing particularly inspiring about the current situation our football program finds itself in.

We compete in a middling league, are not eligible for a national championship, and our best seasons result in playing in a bowl game in some weird, small city with an even weirder sponsor. There's just not any upside to get excited about.
I could not have said it any better myself. Do we have a better chance making the College Basketball Elite 8 or Final Four or making the College Football Final Four playoff? We all know the answer to that one. If dropping Ohio from D-One provides more resources for the basketball program....I am 100% all for it.
Last Edited: 5/10/2021 11:45:48 AM by FearLeon
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rpbobcat
5/10/2021 12:22 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
I could not have said it any better myself. Do we have a better chance making the College Basketball Elite 8 or Final Four or making the College Football Final Four playoff? We all know the answer to that one. If dropping Ohio from D-One provides more resources for the basketball program....I am 100% all for it.
1.If I read the NCAA requirements correctly, to remain a D1 Member Institution, a school has to have a minimum of 6 men's sports, with a minimum of 8 women's sports.
We have 6 men's sports now.
Drop football to D3 and you have to create a whole new program for another D1 sport.

2.Are there any other similar state schools in Ohio that don't have D1 football ?
If not, that puts O.U. at a public relations disadvantage.

3.If, for some reason, O.U. went to D3 in football ,there's no guarantee how much more money would be channeled over to basketball.
They might just "split the pot" between all men's and women's sports.
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BillyTheCat
5/10/2021 12:26 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
I could not have said it any better myself. Do we have a better chance making the College Basketball Elite 8 or Final Four or making the College Football Final Four playoff? We all know the answer to that one. If dropping Ohio from D-One provides more resources for the basketball program....I am 100% all for it.
1.If I read the NCAA requirements correctly, to remain a D1 Member Institution, a school has to have a minimum of 6 men's sports, with a minimum of 8 women's sports.
We have 6 men's sports now.
Drop football to D3 and you have to create a whole new program for another D1 sport.

2.Are there any other similar state schools in Ohio that don't have D1 football ?
If not, that puts O.U. at a public relations disadvantage.

3.If, for some reason, O.U. went to D3 in football ,there's no guarantee how much more money would be channeled over to basketball.
They might just "split the pot" between all men's and women's sports.
University of Dayton is non-scholarship FCS. You cannot compete at DIII Football and be DI in the other sports your compete in.
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rpbobcat
5/10/2021 12:53 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
University of Dayton is non-scholarship FCS. You cannot compete at DIII Football and be DI in the other sports your compete in.
So,FCS seems to be an option. How about DII ?

Do you know, if O.U. goes to FCS,is that considered a D1 program or do they still need to add a new D1 Program ?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
5/10/2021 1:08 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=FearLeon]


2.Are there any other similar state schools in Ohio that don't have D1 football ?
If not, that puts O.U. at a public relations disadvantage.
Do we currently get a PR advantage from being D1? How would this disadvantage show itself, hypothetically?

With the exception of OSU and Cincinnati, I don't think the schools we compete for students with use D1 football as part of their PR pitch.
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rpbobcat
5/10/2021 1:42 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Do we currently get a PR advantage from being D1? How would this disadvantage show itself, hypothetically?

With the exception of OSU and Cincinnati, I don't think the schools we compete for students with use D1 football as part of their PR pitch.
I can't speak for Ohio.

I know from working with FDU, sports programs are often touted as one of
the reasons university "A" is a "better" place to go, then university "B".

FDU isn't a sports power, except in women's bowling.

Seems to show up in a lot of the school's literature.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
5/10/2021 5:12 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
Do we currently get a PR advantage from being D1? How would this disadvantage show itself, hypothetically?

With the exception of OSU and Cincinnati, I don't think the schools we compete for students with use D1 football as part of their PR pitch.
I can't speak for Ohio.

I know from working with FDU, sports programs are often touted as one of
the reasons university "A" is a "better" place to go, then university "B".

FDU isn't a sports power, except in women's bowling.

Seems to show up in a lot of the school's literature.
Given that we compete for students with Ohio State and Cincinnati, the sort of student who puts D1 football high on their list of differentiators likely isn't choosing us anyhow.

I guess that might be a reason that people choose us over a Wright State or Cleveland State or whatever, but were I tasked with making a list of the reasons OU is better than Wright State, our football team wouldn't crack the top 50.
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Pataskala
5/10/2021 6:57 PM
Just wondering what money would be going to the basketball program if we had sub-1A football. Schollie money? It wouldn't be the pot of money the MAC gets from ESPN, et al, because, even if we're still allowed into the MAC without football, we'd be getting less from that pot. Football represents a big chunk of the MAC's TV money.

And there would likely be a lot less in guarantee money from "P" schools. Last year, the most a 1AA team would've gotten from a guarantee "P" game was $750,000 (from Florida). The most a B10 team would've paid was $650,000 (Iowa). The least a "P" would've paid was $300,000 (Kansas to SIU). The overall average scheduled "P" payout was about $500,000. I couldn't find the range for scheduled payouts to G5 teams by "P" teams, but the average last year would've been $1.3 million. (G5 scheduled payouts to 1AA teams ranged from $150,000 to $400,000.)
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
5/10/2021 7:50 PM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Just wondering what money would be going to the basketball program if we had sub-1A football. Schollie money? It wouldn't be the pot of money the MAC gets from ESPN, et al, because, even if we're still allowed into the MAC without football, we'd be getting less from that pot. Football represents a big chunk of the MAC's TV money. [/QUOTE]The only person here who voiced support for dropping football to the D3 level only voiced conditional support in the event that doing so enhances the basketball program. I don't think anybody has really crunched the numbers or anything.

[QUOTE=Pataskala]
And there would likely be a lot less in guarantee money from "P" schools. Last year, the most a 1AA team would've gotten from a guarantee "P" game was $750,000 (from Florida). The most a B10 team would've paid was $650,000 (Iowa). The least a "P" would've paid was $300,000 (Kansas to SIU). The overall average scheduled "P" payout was about $500,000. I couldn't find the range for scheduled payouts to G5 teams by "P" teams, but the average last year would've been $1.3 million. (G5 scheduled payouts to 1AA teams ranged from $150,000 to $400,000.)
What's our guarantee money look like over the last few years? I was able to find that Miami was going to get 1.1 million from Pitt for a game at Heinz Field, so presumably we got something similar? Looking back at our schedule, looks like we have a game a year at roughly that level. Not a bad gig, honestly. I suspect it'd actually result in more football interest if we loaded up on those games instead of scheduling to stay bowl eligible.
Last Edited: 5/10/2021 7:51:30 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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giacomo
5/10/2021 9:23 PM
I hardly think Pitt paid Miami that much. I also hardly think that anyone chooses to attend Ohio because of our football or basketball teams. We don’t draw diddly. We have a beautiful campus with great programs and a rich history. If somehow we weren’t D1 it wouldn’t matter.
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Pataskala
5/11/2021 12:43 AM
In the story I saw most of the MAC guarantees with "P" teams for games that were scheduled for last year seemed to be in the $1.1 million range. NIU at Iowa and Akron at Clemson were both that amount. BG had games at O$U and Illinois scheduled for $2.2 million total. Kent had quite a bit more -- Bama, Kentucky and Penn St for $4.95 million -- but that's probably due to Saban's history with Kent and more cash available from SEC teams. UMass was supposed to get $1.9 million from Auburn.
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bobcatsquared
5/11/2021 7:52 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
FDU isn't a sports power, except in women's bowling.

Seems to show up in a lot of the school's literature.
Wish I knew this 40-plus years ago when I was deciding on which college to attend.
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giacomo
5/11/2021 9:33 AM
Pitt is not in that league to pay that much. But what do I know? I’ve never met former President Nixon. I don’t know Dick.
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BillyTheCat
5/11/2021 10:14 AM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
In the story I saw most of the MAC guarantees with "P" teams for games that were scheduled for last year seemed to be in the $1.1 million range. NIU at Iowa and Akron at Clemson were both that amount. BG had games at O$U and Illinois scheduled for $2.2 million total. Kent had quite a bit more -- Bama, Kentucky and Penn St for $4.95 million -- but that's probably due to Saban's history with Kent and more cash available from SEC teams. UMass was supposed to get $1.9 million from Auburn.
Problem is we are not playing any of these games. We've just signed another 2 for 1 with a P5, that will pay us little and not help the budget.
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Bobcat1996
5/11/2021 2:25 PM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
In the story I saw most of the MAC guarantees with "P" teams for games that were scheduled for last year seemed to be in the $1.1 million range. NIU at Iowa and Akron at Clemson were both that amount. BG had games at O$U and Illinois scheduled for $2.2 million total. Kent had quite a bit more -- Bama, Kentucky and Penn St for $4.95 million -- but that's probably due to Saban's history with Kent and more cash available from SEC teams. UMass was supposed to get $1.9 million from Auburn.
Ohio's former AD didn't do the Bobcats any financial favors with his football scheduling. Many of the MAC teams above are getting over a million dollars to play at Power Five schools. The schedule now has Ohio playing Syracuse and Iowa State home and home. No money to be made in those deals. That doesn't help the budget.
Last Edited: 5/11/2021 2:26:15 PM by Bobcat1996
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Jeff McKinney
5/11/2021 5:34 PM
Bobcat1996 wrote:expand_more
In the story I saw most of the MAC guarantees with "P" teams for games that were scheduled for last year seemed to be in the $1.1 million range. NIU at Iowa and Akron at Clemson were both that amount. BG had games at O$U and Illinois scheduled for $2.2 million total. Kent had quite a bit more -- Bama, Kentucky and Penn St for $4.95 million -- but that's probably due to Saban's history with Kent and more cash available from SEC teams. UMass was supposed to get $1.9 million from Auburn.
Ohio's former AD didn't do the Bobcats any financial favors with his football scheduling. Many of the MAC teams above are getting over a million dollars to play at Power Five schools. The schedule now has Ohio playing Syracuse and Iowa State home and home. No money to be made in those deals. That doesn't help the budget.
But otherwise, you have a lot of people howling and even rescinding their support of Ohio football due to lack of Power 5 teams visiting Peden.
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