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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: new rules
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bornacatfan
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Posted: 12/17/2013 10:34 PM
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Logic is getting the best of me. 

Watching Dunk City vs USF hideously uniformed Bulls. 

Can t get my arms around what just happened. 

KId starts up with the ball.  Releases and the ball goes in. He runs over the defender and gets called for a charge. They count the basket and the defender goes to the other end of the court to shoot 2 free throws. 

Any officials on here? 

I can't seperate the ball on the way up under the new rule.....from the release timing that would have let the bucket count yet let the defender shoot free throws. 



 
bobcat695
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Posted: 12/17/2013 10:44 PM
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Didn't see the game, but saw the last play. That was almost an insane shot to tie the game by Parkersburg's Chase Fieler. Too bad he didn't have enough time to do anything other than tip it.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/17/2013 11:10 PM
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Don't know about the new rules specifically, but under the old rules years ago I did see a similar call (perhaps even twice).  The only explanation I ever heard was that the ball was in the air before the foul occurred, therefore, the shot counted but that since the shooter no longer had the ball at the time of the foul it wasn't a charge, per se, but a common foul so the guy fouled would shot a one and one if 7th or later foul (no double bonus in those days).  Never made a lick of sense to me, but that's what I heard as an explanation. 
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 12/18/2013 8:20 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Don't know about the new rules specifically, but under the old rules years ago I did see a similar call (perhaps even twice).  The only explanation I ever heard was that the ball was in the air before the foul occurred, therefore, the shot counted but that since the shooter no longer had the ball at the time of the foul it wasn't a charge, per se, but a common foul so the guy fouled would shot a one and one if 7th or later foul (no double bonus in those days).  Never made a lick of sense to me, but that's what I heard as an explanation. 

I've also seen this called before in college games in past years and I agree that it doesn't make any sense. It probably makes even less sense now with the rule that defenders can't move into position to take a charge after the opponent has gone up for a shot.
OU_Country
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Posted: 12/18/2013 8:42 AM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
Didn't see the game, but saw the last play. That was almost an insane shot to tie the game by Parkersburg's Chase Fieler. Too bad he didn't have enough time to do anything other than tip it.


I honestly have a real problem with that last play.  Every replay I saw indicates that he released it before the horn and the red lights went off.  This  .3 second rule needs to be removed and replaced by the use of video replay.  We're nearly in the year 2014 where every device used in an arena is in HD, and the referee's use replay.  Why not let them make the call?
OUVan
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Posted: 12/18/2013 9:43 AM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Didn't see the game, but saw the last play. That was almost an insane shot to tie the game by Parkersburg's Chase Fieler. Too bad he didn't have enough time to do anything other than tip it.


I honestly have a real problem with that last play.  Every replay I saw indicates that he released it before the horn and the red lights went off.  This  .3 second rule needs to be removed and replaced by the use of video replay.  We're nearly in the year 2014 where every device used in an arena is in HD, and the referee's use replay.  Why not let them make the call?


I think they have said that they did a study and it was determined that nobody can catch and shoot a shot in less than 0.7 so that anything less than that has to be a tip in.  As far as the shot leaving his hand before the red light came on it most certainly did but you can blame that on the clock operator not starting the clock as soon as the ball hit Filer's hand.  There was a very slight delay but it was there. Might be time to revisit that study.
OU_Country
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Posted: 12/18/2013 10:17 AM
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OUVan wrote:expand_more
Didn't see the game, but saw the last play. That was almost an insane shot to tie the game by Parkersburg's Chase Fieler. Too bad he didn't have enough time to do anything other than tip it.


I honestly have a real problem with that last play.  Every replay I saw indicates that he released it before the horn and the red lights went off.  This  .3 second rule needs to be removed and replaced by the use of video replay.  We're nearly in the year 2014 where every device used in an arena is in HD, and the referee's use replay.  Why not let them make the call?


I think they have said that they did a study and it was determined that nobody can catch and shoot a shot in less than 0.7 so that anything less than that has to be a tip in.  As far as the shot leaving his hand before the red light came on it most certainly did but you can blame that on the clock operator not starting the clock as soon as the ball hit Filer's hand.  There was a very slight delay but it was there. Might be time to revisit that study.


My argument against that delay on the clock operator is that at the end of the game, they easily have times when they are one or two tenths slow on stopping the clock when a player is fouled.  So, in my mind, it's the same thing with a silly rule applied to the last few tenths of a game.  I know about the study, but I don't know the details.  Still, the eyeball test says they got off an amazing last second shot, and it felt like they got robbed of another overtime to me.  Helluva game to watch though.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 12/18/2013 10:30 AM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Didn't see the game, but saw the last play. That was almost an insane shot to tie the game by Parkersburg's Chase Fieler. Too bad he didn't have enough time to do anything other than tip it.


I honestly have a real problem with that last play.  Every replay I saw indicates that he released it before the horn and the red lights went off.  This  .3 second rule needs to be removed and replaced by the use of video replay.  We're nearly in the year 2014 where every device used in an arena is in HD, and the referee's use replay.  Why not let them make the call?


I think they have said that they did a study and it was determined that nobody can catch and shoot a shot in less than 0.7 so that anything less than that has to be a tip in.  As far as the shot leaving his hand before the red light came on it most certainly did but you can blame that on the clock operator not starting the clock as soon as the ball hit Filer's hand.  There was a very slight delay but it was there. Might be time to revisit that study.


My argument against that delay on the clock operator is that at the end of the game, they easily have times when they are one or two tenths slow on stopping the clock when a player is fouled.  So, in my mind, it's the same thing with a silly rule applied to the last few tenths of a game.  I know about the study, but I don't know the details.  Still, the eyeball test says they got off an amazing last second shot, and it felt like they got robbed of another overtime to me.  Helluva game to watch though.


I think the controllers are on the referee's belts at this point. That said, My HS coach had the clock operators in for practice and drilled into the operators head what he was to do situationally. Coach would have had a meltdown if that clock operator took that much time to start the clock with the away team getting a chance to win......

On the subject ...I still can not reconcile how .....if the ball was on the way up ....under the current rules ....and the basket counted because he was in the act of shooting ....is seems the automatic call under this interpretation would be to automatically call it a block ...as it has been called all year.   I have seen the same play RS described but I do not think that would  the correct one under the current interpretation. If the guy was set it was a charge and basket waved off. If the ball was on the way up and the basket counted it should have been a block and a free throw awarded in addition to the bucket IMHO.
Last Edited: 12/18/2013 10:34:15 AM by bornacatfan
JSF
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Posted: 12/18/2013 2:06 PM
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OUVan wrote:expand_more
I think they have said that they did a study and it was determined that nobody can catch and shoot a shot in less than 0.7 so that anything less than that has to be a tip in.


Nobody told Derek Fisher...
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 12/18/2013 5:15 PM
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OUVan wrote:expand_more
Didn't see the game, but saw the last play. That was almost an insane shot to tie the game by Parkersburg's Chase Fieler. Too bad he didn't have enough time to do anything other than tip it.


I honestly have a real problem with that last play. Every replay I saw indicates that he released it before the horn and the red lights went off. This .3 second rule needs to be removed and replaced by the use of video replay. We're nearly in the year 2014 where every device used in an arena is in HD, and the referee's use replay. Why not let them make the call?


I think they have said that they did a study and it was determined that nobody can catch and shoot a shot in less than 0.7 so that anything less than that has to be a tip in. As far as the shot leaving his hand before the red light came on it most certainly did but you can blame that on the clock operator not starting the clock as soon as the ball hit Filer's hand. There was a very slight delay but it was there. Might be time to revisit that study.
Wrong, officials actually start the game clock, guy at the scorers table is a back up. This began a few years ago, each official wears a pack on their belt, and they click a button to start the timing, and it stops on the sound of their whistle. Guy at the table is the backup and control operator. Next time you hit a game, check the trail official on an inbounds, he will have his hand on a little black box when the ball is inbounded.
Last Edited: 12/18/2013 5:19:13 PM by BillyTheCat
bornacatfan
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Posted: 12/18/2013 6:50 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Wrong, officials actually start the game clock, guy at the scorers table is a back up. This began a few years ago, each official wears a pack on their belt, and they click a button to start the timing, and it stops on the sound of their whistle. Guy at the table is the backup and control operator. Next time you hit a game, check the trail official on an inbounds, he will have his hand on a little black box when the ball is inbounded.

Words from the man at the table. Thanks

 
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 12/18/2013 8:02 PM
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I really have no clue what you guys are talking about, mind cling me in?
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 12/18/2013 10:47 PM
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Precision timing systems.

http://www.precisiontime.com/


Pretty neat system
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