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Topic: MAC format
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The Optimist
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Posted: 12/27/2013 7:34 PM
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I was under the impression the MAC is doing away with the East and West standing in hoops this year with the switch to the longer conference slate. Byes 1 and 2 not reserved for division champs. Are they still technically keeping track of the east and west? ESPN still has them listed separately. I really haven't seen a good article explaining the transition to this format.

Unfortunately, we get two of the better west teams (Toledo and WMU) twice and the other leader over there (EMU) is a road game for us. CMU, Ball and NIU once each. I think that Toledo, WMU and EMU are more legit than past MAC West teams the past 10 years, but I still think this move will pad the east's wins this year.
bobcat2nc
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Posted: 12/27/2013 8:05 PM
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I started a thread about this earlier in the year where the was some discussion about the format. With the change in format it will mean that not all teams play an equal schedule. In the past the only variable was the home-away swing in the other division.  I do not understand the benefit of 2 extra league games when the luck of the draw in scheduling can have such a significant impact on the very important byes in the MAC tourney for our 1 bid conference.

i have only heard that the conference wanted to increase the number of league games but not the reason for doing it. Does it mean more revenue or less cost in travel or what? 
Pataskala
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Posted: 12/27/2013 9:59 PM
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bobcat2nc wrote:expand_more
I started a thread about this earlier in the year where the was some discussion about the format. With the change in format it will mean that not all teams play an equal schedule. In the past the only variable was the home-away swing in the other division.  I do not understand the benefit of 2 extra league games when the luck of the draw in scheduling can have such a significant impact on the very important byes in the MAC tourney for our 1 bid conference.

i have only heard that the conference wanted to increase the number of league games but not the reason for doing it. Does it mean more revenue or less cost in travel or what? 


Just speculation, here, but it comes the year that ESPN buried the Bracketbuster weekend.  That extra date -- or two, because some teams didn't schedule a midweek game that week -- in February left a hole for the MAC to fill.

I've been an advocate to do away with b-ball divisions for several years.  It makes sense in football because of the extra TV money for the championship game.  It makes absolutely no sense in b-ball, and puts the MAC as one of only three D1 conferences that have b-ball divisions (Big South and Ohio Valley are the other two).
The Optimist
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Posted: 12/28/2013 9:07 AM
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bobcat2nc wrote:expand_more
I started a thread about this earlier in the year where the was some discussion about the format. With the change in format it will mean that not all teams play an equal schedule. In the past the only variable was the home-away swing in the other division.  I do not understand the benefit of 2 extra league games when the luck of the draw in scheduling can have such a significant impact on the very important byes in the MAC tourney for our 1 bid conference.

i have only heard that the conference wanted to increase the number of league games but not the reason for doing it. Does it mean more revenue or less cost in travel or what? 

While it is true not everyone plays an equal schedule, that was also true before with divisions. The MAC West leader had the 2 seed reserved when it was pretty clear the MAC East had the conference's 2 best teams.
 
bobcat2nc
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Posted: 12/28/2013 11:45 AM
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The Optimist wrote:expand_more
I started a thread about this earlier in the year where the was some discussion about the format. With the change in format it will mean that not all teams play an equal schedule. In the past the only variable was the home-away swing in the other division.  I do not understand the benefit of 2 extra league games when the luck of the draw in scheduling can have such a significant impact on the very important byes in the MAC tourney for our 1 bid conference.

i have only heard that the conference wanted to increase the number of league games but not the reason for doing it. Does it mean more revenue or less cost in travel or what? 

While it is true not everyone plays an equal schedule, that was also true before with divisions. The MAC West leader had the 2 seed reserved when it was pretty clear the MAC East had the conference's 2 best teams.
 
I also thought that was a big problem as well.  Don't know any easy solution except to make a 22 game league schedule which isn't going to happen either.  Mostly just making an observation about the possible discrepancy in scheduling.  

 
OUVan
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Posted: 12/28/2013 1:12 PM
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For what it's worth the MAC website still has the teams listed in divisions in the standings
perimeterpost
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Posted: 12/28/2013 1:19 PM
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if the tournament seeds are no longer tied to division rankings then what difference does it make one way or the other if we have divisions? Either way you still have to find a semi equitable way to create a schedule where each team plays 4 teams once and 7 teams twice.
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 12/28/2013 4:06 PM
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By maintaining divisions, there can still be East and West champions, even though it has nothing to do with the tournament seeding.
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 12/28/2013 11:42 PM
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Wasn't the procedure of giving a division champ the #2 seed regardless of record dropped last year?
mcbin
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Posted: 12/29/2013 12:19 AM
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I thought that was the case, which we would think give the East the top to seeds. I think Toledo may have other ideas though :)
anorris
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Posted: 12/29/2013 1:48 AM
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Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
Wasn't the procedure of giving a division champ the #2 seed regardless of record dropped last year?
Seeing as Akron was the 1 seed and we were the 2, yes.
Eagle66
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Posted: 12/29/2013 8:42 AM
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anorris wrote:expand_more
Wasn't the procedure of giving a division champ the #2 seed regardless of record dropped last year?
Seeing as Akron was the 1 seed and we were the 2, yes.


and the the year before that, Akron was 1, Buffalo was 2 and we were 3. I seem to remember winning a game or two that year. 
The Optimist
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Posted: 12/29/2013 9:40 AM
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So other than the change to a longer schedule, nothing was actually changed?
Tyler
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Posted: 12/29/2013 10:12 AM
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The Optimist wrote:expand_more
So other than the change to a longer schedule, nothing was actually changed?

I don't think so.

I agree that divisions are unnecessary, but I actually like them for the schedules they provide. It's nice knowing Akron, Kent and Miami will be playing in the Convo each season. Those were always my three favorite games of the season. If they eliminated divisions, I'm sure we'd still have two games against Miami each season, but I doubt those Kent and Akron games would be protected.

 
The Optimist
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Posted: 12/29/2013 10:15 AM
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Tyler wrote:expand_more
So other than the change to a longer schedule, nothing was actually changed?

I don't think so.

I agree that divisions are unnecessary, but I actually like them for the schedules they provide. It's nice knowing Akron, Kent and Miami will be playing in the Convo each season. Those were always my three favorite games of the season. If they eliminated divisions, I'm sure we'd still have two games against Miami each season, but I doubt those Kent and Akron games would be protected.

 

I agree. Even Buffalo and BG had a little more fire to them than a random west team coming in.

I am excited for the Toledo game this year... Falls on 2-1... A Saturday. Looks like it could be a TV game.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 12/29/2013 3:03 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
if the tournament seeds are no longer tied to division rankings then what difference does it make one way or the other if we have divisions?

The divisions are still there as a clear and concise way of labeling which teams play each other twice per year every year.  I have no problem with displaying the divisions despite there being no real significance in the standings.

The 18 game setup still lends itself to mostly fair scheduling...obviously you play division opponents home and away each season, and with cross-division opponents you are on a 3 year cycle of a home game in year 1, away game in year 2, home and away in year 3, and so on.  Some seasons will have a tough draw for the extra 2 but I can't imagine it being enough to gripe about.
Pataskala
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Posted: 12/29/2013 10:04 PM
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UpSan Bobcat wrote:expand_more
By maintaining divisions, there can still be East and West champions, even though it has nothing to do with the tournament seeding.


Two years ago, EMU was the West champ with a 9-7 record, which was the same record as the 5th place team in the East..  Last year's West co-champs were 10-6, which would be good for third place in the East.  The term "champion" when applied to such mediocrity is meaningless.  (Yes, it happens in the NFL and MLB too, but that doesn't make it right.)  I'm not saying that they need to have the same record as the leaders of the East division, but it should be close.  The past two seasons, the West leaders had four fewer wins than the East champs.
Last Edited: 12/29/2013 10:08:24 PM by Pataskala
DXer
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Posted: 12/30/2013 12:03 AM
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The purpose of two divisions way back when they were first created was to supposedly create more interest late in the season for teams with less than the top records. This is precisely illustrated by the Eastern Michigan division championship mentioned above. In theory, Eastern Michigan and the other teams close to them record-wise in the West would be super-excited to try to win the #2 seed, even though they obviously don't deserve it.

I reality, no one really cared because everyone knew the #2 seed wasn't that good and would likely get beat early on anyway. I saw no uptick in interest or attendance in the schools playing for the #2 seed.

What the divisions thing has done is ruined the attitude of everyone toward the regular season. The regular season should consist of no separate divisions and crown the #1 team as the MAC League Champion. Period. That is what creates interest in the league throughout the season. Unfortunately today, everyone looks at the regular season as simply playing for seeding position in the post-season tournament, thus no big deal about the regular season itself. This is illustrated by the postings put on fan message boards, by the articles written in the news media, and the announcers televising college games on TV.

The post-season tournament years ago was seen as a second season, not the playoffs of the entire season. This is the what we should return to. The tournament should be separate from the regular season. You should play the regular season and crown the league champion. Then you go on to the post-season tournament. The winner there is the Tournament Champion and they go on to the Field of 64, but they are not the MAC League Champion. The team who won it though two months of completion should be the league champion, not a team who got hot over a 4 day period. What we have today is the NBA model being used for the college sport. But the professional model is not appropriate for college basketball. And I keep seeing the news articles every year lately on how attendance at regular season college basketball games keeps going down.
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 12/30/2013 12:41 AM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
By maintaining divisions, there can still be East and West champions, even though it has nothing to do with the tournament seeding.


Two years ago, EMU was the West champ with a 9-7 record, which was the same record as the 5th place team in the East..  Last year's West co-champs were 10-6, which would be good for third place in the East.  The term "champion" when applied to such mediocrity is meaningless.  (Yes, it happens in the NFL and MLB too, but that doesn't make it right.)  I'm not saying that they need to have the same record as the leaders of the East division, but it should be close.  The past two seasons, the West leaders had four fewer wins than the East champs.

I agree with you, but Eastern Michigan can still claim a division championship, even though most realize that means very little, especially in this case.
JSF
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Posted: 12/30/2013 3:31 AM
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Those West championships aren't meaningless; they're what keep Steve Hawkins employed.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/31/2013 7:55 PM
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Could someone give a really lengthy, detailed description under all possible conference alignments under the scenario that we play really well and win the key games.







hashtag just take care of bidness
Last Edited: 12/31/2013 10:52:19 PM by Monroe Slavin
ts1227
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Posted: 12/31/2013 8:32 PM
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Divisions in basketball are stupid. Our team then tweeited thsi today to further solidify it: 

With Kent State's defeat at Princeton today, Ohio has moved into first place in the MAC East Division
1. No one cares about divisions
2. Is it really a bragging point when zero conference games have been played? Come on...
 
bornacatfan
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Posted: 12/31/2013 8:44 PM
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the nice part of playing the west teams only once is that your RPI does not automatically tank TWO times a year. Given that we get the best of the west twice can only lessen the blow to the RPI in the bigger picture.....oh and it should make us a bit more tough come tourney time.

It really sux to have Balls playing so badly. I like the Whitford hire but it is gonna take time to get on track with freshmen getting big minutes. I can't stand Western for some reason so the sooner Balls and Toledo get good the happier I am .
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