menu
Logo
99+
Bobcat Attack Menu
Logo
99+
Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Official Game 16 Thread: Western Michigan
Page: 2 of 6
mail
person
bobcatsquared
1/12/2024 10:28 AM
I was thinking there might a respectable crowd, by WMU/MAC standards, with students back and the Broncos starting off 3-0. But thinking otherwise with the approaching weather.
mail
person
SBH
1/12/2024 10:41 AM
High ranking member of the athletic department. 90K is what he is being paid; $100K was what he wanted from Ohio.
Last Edited: 1/12/2024 10:44:10 AM by SBH
mail
greencat
1/12/2024 10:54 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
I imagine the Bobcats will be ahead of that weather today and be in town before it all hits. As long as they're there I don't see why they wouldn't play it.
And getting back out of that area? That's the tricky part.
mail
spongeBOB CATpants
1/12/2024 11:54 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
High ranking member of the athletic department. 90K is what he is being paid; $100K was what he wanted from Ohio.
Do they cut a check or is it a payment plan? Being in sales, the contractual side of things is interesting to me. There has to be some sort of terms involved or else this dude could just pack it up and leave whenever he wants.
mail
M.D.W.S.T
1/12/2024 12:25 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
That Javonte Brown swing and miss HURTS. Though it wasn't for a lack of trying. If I remember correctly Boals mentioned, quietly, it was going to cost six figures.

In 18 minutes he's averaging 15 points, 5.5 rebounds, 1 block.

Think they might have a 2025 MAC PoY candidate on their hands. (If he doesn't go back to P5)
No one, I repeat no one in the MAC is getting 6 figures. That was nothing more than a sales pitch to get people to feel guilty and give.
$90K
Sources and documentation or it's no better than an "article" in the Devil Strip.

[/QUOTE]Documentation? You want to see bank statements or something?

Boals own mouth is a hell of a source, but I heard it from someone else in the athletic department as well.

[QUOTE=SBH] High ranking member of the athletic department. 90K is what he is being paid; $100K was what he wanted from Ohio.

A lot of smoke for there to be no fire, Sir Swank.
mail
person
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
1/12/2024 12:32 PM
As this becomes the norm, and if the new rules suggested by the NCAA re: NIL payments are adopted, people's opinions about paying MAC basketball coaches 700k are gonna change pretty fast.
mail
person
Bobcat1996
1/12/2024 12:47 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
As this becomes the norm, and if the new rules suggested by the NCAA re: NIL payments are adopted, people's opinions about paying MAC basketball coaches 700k are gonna change pretty fast.
https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2023/09/meet-akr...

Not certain what Freeman is earning at Akron, but I've heard Groce has some big donors in Akron for the NIL. 100 K was what I was told. The above article does not specify what Freeman is getting in NIL cash, but it is a great story.
Last Edited: 1/12/2024 12:52:18 PM by Bobcat1996
mail
person
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
1/12/2024 12:52 PM
Bobcat1996 wrote:expand_more
As this becomes the norm, and if the new rules suggested by the NCAA re: NIL payments are adopted, people's opinions about paying MAC basketball coaches 700k are gonna change pretty fast.
https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2023/09/meet-akr...

Not certain what Freeman is getting at Akron, but I've heard Groce has some big donors in Akron for the NIL. 100 K is what was mentioned.
Good for him. We either need big donors, or if the Baker proposal goes through for schools to handle NIL money directly, we need to reallocate budget.

When you have a single employee making 700k in a program that generates ~2.8m in revenue, that's an obvious place to look.
mail
person
FJC31
1/12/2024 1:59 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
As this becomes the norm, and if the new rules suggested by the NCAA re: NIL payments are adopted, people's opinions about paying MAC basketball coaches 700k are gonna change pretty fast.
https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2023/09/meet-akr...

Not certain what Freeman is getting at Akron, but I've heard Groce has some big donors in Akron for the NIL. 100 K is what was mentioned.
Good for him. We either need big donors, or if the Baker proposal goes through for schools to handle NIL money directly, we need to reallocate budget.

When you have a single employee making 700k in a program that generates ~2.8m in revenue, that's an obvious place to look.
One thing to keep in mind, is how program performance can impact NIL dollars. I know the guy running the DePaul collective here in Chicago. He is struggling immensely to get donations because no one believes in Stubblefield.

If we’re not winning, it’s going to be much more challenging for the 1804 Collective to maintain and attract new dollars if the perception is that money isn’t being allocated effectively.
Last Edited: 1/12/2024 1:59:51 PM by FJC31
mail
M.D.W.S.T
1/12/2024 2:01 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
As this becomes the norm, and if the new rules suggested by the NCAA re: NIL payments are adopted, people's opinions about paying MAC basketball coaches 700k are gonna change pretty fast.
https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2023/09/meet-akr...

Not certain what Freeman is getting at Akron, but I've heard Groce has some big donors in Akron for the NIL. 100 K is what was mentioned.
Good for him. We either need big donors, or if the Baker proposal goes through for schools to handle NIL money directly, we need to reallocate budget.

When you have a single employee making 700k in a program that generates ~2.8m in revenue, that's an obvious place to look.
Will recruits play for the kind of program that changes coaches yearly because they are paying the head coach a bottom tier salary? What kind of team do you hope to put together by paying JUCO wages?
mail
person
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
1/12/2024 3:00 PM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
Will recruits play for the kind of program that changes coaches yearly because they are paying the head coach a bottom tier salary? What kind of team do you hope to put together by paying JUCO wages?
What's Dwayne Stephens make at Western Michigan? How did he beat us to the guy we wanted most this off-season?

Boals' salary is 2x several Conference USA schools. It's well above several MAC schools, who we currently seem to be lagging behind program-wise. We pay him more than George Mason pays their coach, and URI pays their coach. Both programs generate far more revenue than we do. Far more. We pay him more than Rick Pitino made at Iona. Almost 300k more than what FAU's coach made when he took them to the Final Four. Look at where Todd Kowalwhatever's salary started at Toledo.

Everybody acts like we are just paying market rates. But we're at the very high end for a program with our revenue, and the results are so-so with Boals.

Also: why are coaches paid so well? Partly it's because the money can only go so many places. But when everybody realizes that you need money to get players, I'm pretty confident coaching salaries will drop and more of that will be re-allocated to NIL funds. Just basic labor market principles at work.
mail
M.D.W.S.T
1/12/2024 3:24 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Will recruits play for the kind of program that changes coaches yearly because they are paying the head coach a bottom tier salary? What kind of team do you hope to put together by paying JUCO wages?
What's Dwayne Stephens make at Western Michigan? How did he beat us to the guy we wanted most this off-season?

Boals' salary is 2x several Conference USA schools. It's well above several MAC schools, who we currently seem to be lagging behind program-wise. We pay him more than George Mason pays their coach, and URI pays their coach. Both programs generate far more revenue than we do. Far more. We pay him more than Rick Pitino made at Iona. Almost 300k more than what FAU's coach made when he took them to the Final Four. Look at where Todd Kowalwhatever's salary started at Toledo.

Everybody acts like we are just paying market rates. But we're at the very high end for a program with our revenue, and the results are so-so with Boals.

Also: why are coaches paid so well? Partly it's because the money can only go so many places. But when everybody realizes that you need money to get players, I'm pretty confident coaching salaries will drop and more of that will be re-allocated to NIL funds. Just basic labor market principles at work.
You're making my point for me, but I will play this game with you.

George Mason is on their 3rd coach in 3 years.

FAU's coach just signed a 10-year $15M dollar deal.

Stephens has a $420K base. And a host of various other compensation accelerators and bonuses worth $100K+, similar to what Boals and others have.

Not exactly poverty wages for a 1st time head coach. And not a far cry from the $592K which Boals is receiving in base. Or the $502K he received in his 1st year at OU.

"Pay coaches less, the way to bring in better recruits! BLSS 2024"

https://govsalaries.com/jeffrey-donald-boals-84516568
https://www.ohio.edu/hr/compensation-pay/salary-database
mail
person
GoCats105
1/12/2024 3:43 PM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
As this becomes the norm, and if the new rules suggested by the NCAA re: NIL payments are adopted, people's opinions about paying MAC basketball coaches 700k are gonna change pretty fast.
https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2023/09/meet-akr...

Not certain what Freeman is getting at Akron, but I've heard Groce has some big donors in Akron for the NIL. 100 K is what was mentioned.
Good for him. We either need big donors, or if the Baker proposal goes through for schools to handle NIL money directly, we need to reallocate budget.

When you have a single employee making 700k in a program that generates ~2.8m in revenue, that's an obvious place to look.
One thing to keep in mind, is how program performance can impact NIL dollars. I know the guy running the DePaul collective here in Chicago. He is struggling immensely to get donations because no one believes in Stubblefield.

If we’re not winning, it’s going to be much more challenging for the 1804 Collective to maintain and attract new dollars if the perception is that money isn’t being allocated effectively.
This has been an issue even before the NIL era.
mail
person
JimLurker34
1/12/2024 3:45 PM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
High ranking member of the athletic department. 90K is what he is being paid; $100K was what he wanted from Ohio.
Do they cut a check or is it a payment plan? Being in sales, the contractual side of things is interesting to me. There has to be some sort of terms involved or else this dude could just pack it up and leave whenever he wants.
Good question. The devil is in the details. Pay for play?
mail
person
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
1/12/2024 3:51 PM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
You're making my point for me, but I will play this game with you.

George Mason is on their 3rd coach in 3 years.

FAU's coach just signed a 10-year $15M dollar deal.

Stephens has a $420K base. And a host of various other compensation accelerators and bonuses worth $100K+, similar to what Boals and others have.

Not exactly poverty wages for a 1st time head coach. And not a far cry from the $592K which Boals is receiving in base. Or the $502K he received in his 1st year at OU.

"Pay coaches less, the way to bring in better recruits! BLSS 2024"

https://govsalaries.com/jeffrey-donald-boals-84516568
https://www.ohio.edu/hr/compensation-pay/salary-database
I don't actually know your point, honestly. This thread is about how we lost a big recruit that we went hard after because somebody else gave him $90,000. I'm suggesting ways that we can find money to pay for said players, and given Baker's proposal it sounds like it's likely how NCAA basketball will work soon. Where do you think that money's gonna come from?

And how well is Boals recruiting now with the top salary in the league? I'm struggling to see the correlation between Boals' salary and recruiting success. It seems like recruiting success -- in this case -- came from finding $90k for a player.

I don't think it's some wild idea to think that we're going to reallocate some of our revenue to the players, and that less money will go to coaching salaries not only at OU, but across college basketball. Like I said, just labor market dynamics. We either need more revenue, or we need to allocate what we have differently.

And the fact that these aren't poverty wages supports my point of view, right? That there are coaches in our league that make 200k less than Boals seems quite relevant given that we're losing recruits over 90k.
Last Edited: 1/12/2024 3:53:08 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
mail
person
FJC31
1/12/2024 3:54 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
As this becomes the norm, and if the new rules suggested by the NCAA re: NIL payments are adopted, people's opinions about paying MAC basketball coaches 700k are gonna change pretty fast.
https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2023/09/meet-akr...

Not certain what Freeman is getting at Akron, but I've heard Groce has some big donors in Akron for the NIL. 100 K is what was mentioned.
Good for him. We either need big donors, or if the Baker proposal goes through for schools to handle NIL money directly, we need to reallocate budget.

When you have a single employee making 700k in a program that generates ~2.8m in revenue, that's an obvious place to look.
One thing to keep in mind, is how program performance can impact NIL dollars. I know the guy running the DePaul collective here in Chicago. He is struggling immensely to get donations because no one believes in Stubblefield.

If we’re not winning, it’s going to be much more challenging for the 1804 Collective to maintain and attract new dollars if the perception is that money isn’t being allocated effectively.
This has been an issue even before the NIL era.
Right, but now these dollars are directly tied to roster build.
mail
person
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
1/12/2024 3:57 PM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
One thing to keep in mind, is how program performance can impact NIL dollars. I know the guy running the DePaul collective here in Chicago. He is struggling immensely to get donations because no one believes in Stubblefield.

If we’re not winning, it’s going to be much more challenging for the 1804 Collective to maintain and attract new dollars if the perception is that money isn’t being allocated effectively.
100%. There are a lot of reasons to question how well Boals would allocate a big pool of NIL money at this point.
mail
greencat
1/12/2024 4:28 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
One thing to keep in mind, is how program performance can impact NIL dollars. I know the guy running the DePaul collective here in Chicago. He is struggling immensely to get donations because no one believes in Stubblefield.

If we’re not winning, it’s going to be much more challenging for the 1804 Collective to maintain and attract new dollars if the perception is that money isn’t being allocated effectively.
100%. There are a lot of reasons to question how well Boals would allocate a big pool of NIL money at this point.
Despite last portal season's swing & miss on big guys, there is always going to be another group of "free agents" just around the corner. Got recruited over at the P5 mega-school or their coach gets 5hit-canned or they break up with their girlfriend or they back out of the draft pool when the NBA shows no interest. No reason to think it won't be a bumper crop to shop from.

Lee Dort should be a moneyball special now that charges have been dropped against him. 6-10/250 was a top 100 ranked 4star, #18 center in the nation in high school. (If Stackhouse doesn't let him back on the team)
mail
greencat
1/12/2024 4:34 PM
Before you freak out on the idea...this was his offer list...

https://247sports.com/Recruitment/lee-dort-133121/Recruit... /

How bad do we want to see the Bobcats back in the dance?
mail
person
GoCats105
1/12/2024 5:00 PM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
As this becomes the norm, and if the new rules suggested by the NCAA re: NIL payments are adopted, people's opinions about paying MAC basketball coaches 700k are gonna change pretty fast.
https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2023/09/meet-akr...

Not certain what Freeman is getting at Akron, but I've heard Groce has some big donors in Akron for the NIL. 100 K is what was mentioned.
Good for him. We either need big donors, or if the Baker proposal goes through for schools to handle NIL money directly, we need to reallocate budget.

When you have a single employee making 700k in a program that generates ~2.8m in revenue, that's an obvious place to look.
One thing to keep in mind, is how program performance can impact NIL dollars. I know the guy running the DePaul collective here in Chicago. He is struggling immensely to get donations because no one believes in Stubblefield.

If we’re not winning, it’s going to be much more challenging for the 1804 Collective to maintain and attract new dollars if the perception is that money isn’t being allocated effectively.
This has been an issue even before the NIL era.
Right, but now these dollars are directly tied to roster build.
I was speaking more in terms of the under the table payments to players by larger programs that has been prevalent at larger schools for years.

https://www.bannersociety.com/2014/4/10/20703758/bag-man-...

Excerpt:

This is, however, how a coach becomes a lame duck. If a majority of bag men want a particular coach out, they’ll just dry up funds.

“You can have a rival coach who is considered a great recruiter, and he might say, ‘We feel great about this kid, if we can just get him on campus.’ Well, what if you can’t even get him to show up? How great a recruiter are you now?”

This is a shining example of how influential shadow boosters are in the recruiting process.

”The coach won’t know exactly when we decide to make that happen, but they’ve got a good idea. Then we get to see just how damn good a recruiter he really is.
mail
FearLeon
1/12/2024 5:16 PM
Last 18 true road games.

Ohio is 4-14.

Truly pathetic.
Last Edited: 1/12/2024 5:17:47 PM by FearLeon
mail
FearLeon
1/12/2024 5:18 PM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
High ranking member of the athletic department. 90K is what he is being paid; $100K was what he wanted from Ohio.
Do they cut a check or is it a payment plan? Being in sales, the contractual side of things is interesting to me. There has to be some sort of terms involved or else this dude could just pack it up and leave whenever he wants.
Have to believe it's monthly. Not one lump sum check.
mail
person
FJC31
1/12/2024 6:02 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
As this becomes the norm, and if the new rules suggested by the NCAA re: NIL payments are adopted, people's opinions about paying MAC basketball coaches 700k are gonna change pretty fast.
https://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/2023/09/meet-akr...

Not certain what Freeman is getting at Akron, but I've heard Groce has some big donors in Akron for the NIL. 100 K is what was mentioned.
Good for him. We either need big donors, or if the Baker proposal goes through for schools to handle NIL money directly, we need to reallocate budget.

When you have a single employee making 700k in a program that generates ~2.8m in revenue, that's an obvious place to look.
One thing to keep in mind, is how program performance can impact NIL dollars. I know the guy running the DePaul collective here in Chicago. He is struggling immensely to get donations because no one believes in Stubblefield.

If we’re not winning, it’s going to be much more challenging for the 1804 Collective to maintain and attract new dollars if the perception is that money isn’t being allocated effectively.
This has been an issue even before the NIL era.
Right, but now these dollars are directly tied to roster build.
I was speaking more in terms of the under the table payments to players by larger programs that has been prevalent at larger schools for years.

https://www.bannersociety.com/2014/4/10/20703758/bag-man-...

Excerpt:

This is, however, how a coach becomes a lame duck. If a majority of bag men want a particular coach out, they’ll just dry up funds.

“You can have a rival coach who is considered a great recruiter, and he might say, ‘We feel great about this kid, if we can just get him on campus.’ Well, what if you can’t even get him to show up? How great a recruiter are you now?”

This is a shining example of how influential shadow boosters are in the recruiting process.

”The coach won’t know exactly when we decide to make that happen, but they’ve got a good idea. Then we get to see just how damn good a recruiter he really is.
Oh, you’re not wrong at all. Now that it can be out there, the bag men that you allude to have more power than ever in college sports.

Just re-emphasizing that in our own case. We're a mid-major. Funds are always going to be more limited. Seasons like the one we’re currently having, could have greater negative impact if not turned around for this reason.
mail
person
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
1/12/2024 6:08 PM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
Just re-emphasizing that in our own case. We're a mid-major. Funds are always going to be more limited. Seasons like the one we’re currently having, could have greater negative impact if not turned around for this reason.
This is my biggest concern at the moment. A down season can hit hard in multiple ways. It can dry up NIL donations, and lead to transfers out because you become ripe for the picking by those with more money. And in our case, "those with more money" isn't just P5 schools. It could be Akron or Western Michigan or Miami, too. You're not only as risk of losing guys who are good enough to transfer up, but you're also susceptible to lateral transfers who raise money better than you.
mail
Ted Thompson
1/12/2024 6:12 PM

 

Showing Messages: 26 - 50 of 134
reply
vertical_align_top
vertical_align_center
vertical_align_bottom
add_comment
chevron_backward
chevron_forward
MAC News Links



extra small (< 576px)
small (>= 576px)
medium (>= 768px)
large (>= 992px)
x-large (>= 1200px)
xx-large (>= 1400px)