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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Strength Of MAC Hoops
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FearLeon
11/27/2023 4:37 PM
I’m afraid to look at conference power rankings. Is the best non-con win Akron at South Dakota State? Kent two disappointing losses at home against James Madison and College of Charleston and COC ain’t the team from a year ago. This conference is wide open it seems. Hell…Northern Illinois might have a shot.
Last Edited: 11/27/2023 4:38:00 PM by FearLeon
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GraffZ06
11/27/2023 5:11 PM
Said in my best Major League ground keeper voice, "These guys are terrible".

The eye test says the MAC is bad bad bad. Torvik has us at #14 overall though. Sandwiched between CUSA and WAC.
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FJC31
11/27/2023 6:18 PM
When’s the last season the MAC has had a number of marquee OOC wins? I actually have no clue, other than Buffalo’s run under Oats. Even the premier wins last year for Kent were South Dakota State (new MAC punching bag?), Cleveland State, and NKU
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spongeBOB CATpants
11/28/2023 10:56 AM
How much of this can be attributed to P5 schools unwillingness to schedule decent MAC schools? Boals has made statements publicly about how tough getting a decent non-con schedule can be. I'm dreaming of the year where we can get one scheduled in Columbus but I don't see that happening any time soon.
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JSF
11/28/2023 12:09 PM
2005 was a long time ago.
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M.D.W.S.T
11/28/2023 2:16 PM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
How much of this can be attributed to P5 schools unwillingness to schedule decent MAC schools? Boals has made statements publicly about how tough getting a decent non-con schedule can be. I'm dreaming of the year where we can get one scheduled in Columbus but I don't see that happening any time soon.
I never buy that at all, but what do you expect him to say? He's basically trying to dare people into playing us - but hardly bc they're scared.

So far this season Purdue has played games non-con games vs Xavier, Gonzaga, Tennessee and Marquette.

They play Alabama and Arizona in December.

You think they looked at the mighty Bobcats and were like NO WAY MAN.

It's tough getting a decent non-con schedule, bc a win vs the MAC is hardly a blip. While a loss would be a glaring weakness.

P5 schools schedule games against better teams than the MAC all the time, it's because we're generally not a highly ranked conference is why people steer clear. Minimal benefit.
Last Edited: 11/28/2023 2:18:06 PM by M.D.W.S.T
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spongeBOB CATpants
11/28/2023 3:14 PM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
How much of this can be attributed to P5 schools unwillingness to schedule decent MAC schools? Boals has made statements publicly about how tough getting a decent non-con schedule can be. I'm dreaming of the year where we can get one scheduled in Columbus but I don't see that happening any time soon.
I never buy that at all, but what do you expect him to say? He's basically trying to dare people into playing us - but hardly bc they're scared.

So far this season Purdue has played games non-con games vs Xavier, Gonzaga, Tennessee and Marquette.

They play Alabama and Arizona in December.

You think they looked at the mighty Bobcats and were like NO WAY MAN.

It's tough getting a decent non-con schedule, bc a win vs the MAC is hardly a blip. While a loss would be a glaring weakness.

P5 schools schedule games against better teams than the MAC all the time, it's because we're generally not a highly ranked conference is why people steer clear. Minimal benefit.
You're spot on. Its not that they are scared (although a case could be made they ARE scared to lose to the MAC) but its a lose-lose scenario for them. A win doesn't do much and a loss could be crippling to an at-large bid to the dance.

I agree that Boals was probably trying to dare some schools to come to the table, I respect it.

That being said, OSU plays Central tomorrow night.
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M.D.W.S.T
11/28/2023 4:11 PM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
That being said, OSU plays Central tomorrow night.
Have never known why OSU-OU is not a yearly, or bi-yearly game.

Other than the reasons we've discussed. No benefit, etc

I assume most feel that way, but it always felt like that would be a fun 'rivalry' worth having, even from their end due to the huge OU alum base in Columbus - maybe not. Like the plucky, fun kid brother. I imagine from their end, UD or Cincy might be a more worthwhile opponent.

They've never had consistently great attendance at games, pretty sure their attendance is always right around 10-13K, and they play in a cavern so it always looks and feels less than it is. Doubt the solution is play more fun regional games, but it couldn't hurt!
Last Edited: 11/28/2023 4:12:48 PM by M.D.W.S.T
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OhioCatFan
11/28/2023 11:39 PM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
That being said, OSU plays Central tomorrow night.
Have never known why OSU-OU is not a yearly, or bi-yearly game.

Other than the reasons we've discussed. No benefit, etc

I assume most feel that way, but it always felt like that would be a fun 'rivalry' worth having, even from their end due to the huge OU alum base in Columbus - maybe not. Like the plucky, fun kid brother. I imagine from their end, UD or Cincy might be a more worthwhile opponent.

They've never had consistently great attendance at games, pretty sure their attendance is always right around 10-13K, and they play in a cavern so it always looks and feels less than it is. Doubt the solution is play more fun regional games, but it couldn't hurt!
OSU has never liked to acknowledge, except under very rare circumstances, that there were any other schools in the Buckeye State that played basketball anywhere near its level. They did this before Cincinnati beat them twice in a row in the national championship game in 1961 and '62, and a few years later they were doing it again.

Perhaps now, in the 21st Century, there might be hope that they would come off their high horse and agree to something like a Buckeye Challenge in December featuring OSU & UC and then two other D1 Ohio colleges on some kind of rotating basis. The location could rotate between Columbus, Cincinnati and then the other D1 schools. It would quickly become a real fan favorite and draw big crowds no matter where it was held.

Wake me up, I must be dreaming. This could never happen, could it?
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BillyTheCat
11/29/2023 7:46 AM
OCF, you are spot on, the Buckeyes have refused to play UC or Dayton for decades, and have never entertained a home and home type series, even when both had much better facilities. That stance towards those schools seems to be softening a bit, and they have talked about playing each other. This year OSU played an exhibition game for charity at UD Areana, and it was the first time in 35 years that had happened. The game raised over $500,000 for mental health charities.
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Kinggeorge4
11/29/2023 10:12 AM
Would love to see an All Ohio early season tournament at every level of college basketball. Would be great for the fans and could be connected to a charity event.
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M.D.W.S.T
11/29/2023 11:47 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
That being said, OSU plays Central tomorrow night.
Have never known why OSU-OU is not a yearly, or bi-yearly game.

Other than the reasons we've discussed. No benefit, etc

I assume most feel that way, but it always felt like that would be a fun 'rivalry' worth having, even from their end due to the huge OU alum base in Columbus - maybe not. Like the plucky, fun kid brother. I imagine from their end, UD or Cincy might be a more worthwhile opponent.

They've never had consistently great attendance at games, pretty sure their attendance is always right around 10-13K, and they play in a cavern so it always looks and feels less than it is. Doubt the solution is play more fun regional games, but it couldn't hurt!
OSU has never liked to acknowledge, except under very rare circumstances, that there were any other schools in the Buckeye State that played basketball anywhere near its level. They did this before Cincinnati beat them twice in a row in the national championship game in 1961 and '62, and a few years later they were doing it again.

Perhaps now, in the 21st Century, there might be hope that they would come off their high horse and agree to something like a Buckeye Challenge in December featuring OSU & UC and then two other D1 Ohio colleges on some kind of rotating basis. The location could rotate between Columbus, Cincinnati and then the other D1 schools. It would quickly become a real fan favorite and draw big crowds no matter where it was held.

Wake me up, I must be dreaming. This could never happen, could it?
Those in-season tournaments in the Bahamas are certainly more fun for the kids, but imagine this field for the inaugural Buckeye State Challenge:

1) Xavier
2) Cincy
3) Ohio State

4) Dayton
13) Miami

5) Akron
12) BG

6) Kent State
11) Wright State

7) OHIO
10) Youngstown State

8) Toledo
9) Cleveland State
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FearLeon
11/29/2023 12:33 PM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
That being said, OSU plays Central tomorrow night.
Have never known why OSU-OU is not a yearly, or bi-yearly game.

Other than the reasons we've discussed. No benefit, etc

I assume most feel that way, but it always felt like that would be a fun 'rivalry' worth having, even from their end due to the huge OU alum base in Columbus - maybe not. Like the plucky, fun kid brother. I imagine from their end, UD or Cincy might be a more worthwhile opponent.

They've never had consistently great attendance at games, pretty sure their attendance is always right around 10-13K, and they play in a cavern so it always looks and feels less than it is. Doubt the solution is play more fun regional games, but it couldn't hurt!
OSU has never liked to acknowledge, except under very rare circumstances, that there were any other schools in the Buckeye State that played basketball anywhere near its level. They did this before Cincinnati beat them twice in a row in the national championship game in 1961 and '62, and a few years later they were doing it again.

Perhaps now, in the 21st Century, there might be hope that they would come off their high horse and agree to something like a Buckeye Challenge in December featuring OSU & UC and then two other D1 Ohio colleges on some kind of rotating basis. The location could rotate between Columbus, Cincinnati and then the other D1 schools. It would quickly become a real fan favorite and draw big crowds no matter where it was held.

Wake me up, I must be dreaming. This could never happen, could it?
Those in-season tournaments in the Bahamas are certainly more fun for the kids, but imagine this field for the inaugural Buckeye State Challenge:

1) Xavier
2) Cincy
3) Ohio State

4) Dayton
13) Miami

5) Akron
12) BG

6) Kent State
11) Wright State

7) OHIO
10) Youngstown State

8) Toledo
9) Cleveland State

Dare to dream. Love the concept.
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M.D.W.S.T
11/29/2023 1:44 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
That being said, OSU plays Central tomorrow night.
Have never known why OSU-OU is not a yearly, or bi-yearly game.

Other than the reasons we've discussed. No benefit, etc

I assume most feel that way, but it always felt like that would be a fun 'rivalry' worth having, even from their end due to the huge OU alum base in Columbus - maybe not. Like the plucky, fun kid brother. I imagine from their end, UD or Cincy might be a more worthwhile opponent.

They've never had consistently great attendance at games, pretty sure their attendance is always right around 10-13K, and they play in a cavern so it always looks and feels less than it is. Doubt the solution is play more fun regional games, but it couldn't hurt!
OSU has never liked to acknowledge, except under very rare circumstances, that there were any other schools in the Buckeye State that played basketball anywhere near its level. They did this before Cincinnati beat them twice in a row in the national championship game in 1961 and '62, and a few years later they were doing it again.

Perhaps now, in the 21st Century, there might be hope that they would come off their high horse and agree to something like a Buckeye Challenge in December featuring OSU & UC and then two other D1 Ohio colleges on some kind of rotating basis. The location could rotate between Columbus, Cincinnati and then the other D1 schools. It would quickly become a real fan favorite and draw big crowds no matter where it was held.

Wake me up, I must be dreaming. This could never happen, could it?
Those in-season tournaments in the Bahamas are certainly more fun for the kids, but imagine this field for the inaugural Buckeye State Challenge:

1) Xavier
2) Cincy
3) Ohio State

4) Dayton
13) Miami

5) Akron
12) BG

6) Kent State
11) Wright State

7) OHIO
10) Youngstown State

8) Toledo
9) Cleveland State

Dare to dream. Love the concept.

Next time I run into Julie - Hey howareyouihaveagreatideaforabasketballtournamentdoyouhaveaminutetolisten
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
11/29/2023 3:05 PM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
That being said, OSU plays Central tomorrow night.
Have never known why OSU-OU is not a yearly, or bi-yearly game.

Other than the reasons we've discussed. No benefit, etc

I assume most feel that way, but it always felt like that would be a fun 'rivalry' worth having, even from their end due to the huge OU alum base in Columbus - maybe not. Like the plucky, fun kid brother. I imagine from their end, UD or Cincy might be a more worthwhile opponent.

They've never had consistently great attendance at games, pretty sure their attendance is always right around 10-13K, and they play in a cavern so it always looks and feels less than it is. Doubt the solution is play more fun regional games, but it couldn't hurt!
OSU has never liked to acknowledge, except under very rare circumstances, that there were any other schools in the Buckeye State that played basketball anywhere near its level. They did this before Cincinnati beat them twice in a row in the national championship game in 1961 and '62, and a few years later they were doing it again.

Perhaps now, in the 21st Century, there might be hope that they would come off their high horse and agree to something like a Buckeye Challenge in December featuring OSU & UC and then two other D1 Ohio colleges on some kind of rotating basis. The location could rotate between Columbus, Cincinnati and then the other D1 schools. It would quickly become a real fan favorite and draw big crowds no matter where it was held.

Wake me up, I must be dreaming. This could never happen, could it?
Those in-season tournaments in the Bahamas are certainly more fun for the kids, but imagine this field for the inaugural Buckeye State Challenge:

1) Xavier
2) Cincy
3) Ohio State

4) Dayton
13) Miami

5) Akron
12) BG

6) Kent State
11) Wright State

7) OHIO
10) Youngstown State

8) Toledo
9) Cleveland State
Hosted in the southern most point in Ohio, Hilton Head, South Carolina.
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OUcat
11/29/2023 4:35 PM
The biggest chip the MAC has in getting quality bb games, either on the road at home or home and home .... is football.

None,... I repeat NONE, of the plethora of 'buy' games MAC FB teams make on an annual basis should not be made without a locked in MAC BB game. Guaranteed.

And those 'guaranteed' BB contracts, IMO, should also include the following: "Any road victory by said MAC team 'automatically' triggers a return game w/in two years."

It's really not that hard.
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RSBobcat
11/29/2023 6:04 PM
The reason we don't get those games is the same reason tRump won't participate in the Republican primary debates.....
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SBH
11/29/2023 6:53 PM
Because they're insane assholes?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
11/29/2023 7:15 PM
I'm watching Ohio State play a MAC team right now. Last year, they played Cincinnati. Year before that, Akron, BG, and Xavier. The year before, Cleveland State. Kent State the year before that.

Seems like OSU plays these games plenty, we just don't schedule them. From their actual schedules, it doesn't seem like they have some policy of avoiding other Ohio schools.
Last Edited: 11/29/2023 7:16:04 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RSBobcat
11/29/2023 9:09 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I'm watching Ohio State play a MAC team right now. Last year, they played Cincinnati. Year before that, Akron, BG, and Xavier. The year before, Cleveland State. Kent State the year before that.

Seems like OSU plays these games plenty, we just don't schedule them. From their actual schedules, it doesn't seem like they have some policy of avoiding other Ohio schools.
I was referring more to the "All Ohio" tourney. The o$su does a great job of deciding to agree to schedule an in state university based on these two criteria - the game is in Cbus, and opponent likely in a rebuild year. As well - "we" do not have the ability to just decide to just "schedule" a game with to$u.....
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WxM
11/30/2023 4:22 AM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
How much of this can be attributed to P5 schools unwillingness to schedule decent MAC schools? Boals has made statements publicly about how tough getting a decent non-con schedule can be. I'm dreaming of the year where we can get one scheduled in Columbus but I don't see that happening any time soon.
I never buy that at all, but what do you expect him to say? He's basically trying to dare people into playing us - but hardly bc they're scared.

So far this season Purdue has played games non-con games vs Xavier, Gonzaga, Tennessee and Marquette.

They play Alabama and Arizona in December.

You think they looked at the mighty Bobcats and were like NO WAY MAN.

It's tough getting a decent non-con schedule, bc a win vs the MAC is hardly a blip. While a loss would be a glaring weakness.

P5 schools schedule games against better teams than the MAC all the time, it's because we're generally not a highly ranked conference is why people steer clear. Minimal benefit.

That's right.

Despite playing all those difficult schools, Purdue also played Texas Southern. That's because Texas Southern is no threat.

Ohio and most MAC teams are in that gray area; just good enough to be a threat on the right day, but not at all good enough to where any loss to them could remotely considered good.

It's not that teams are afraid of the MAC; it's that the risk/reward ratio just isn't there.

(Of course, Purdue actually played in Athens just a few years ago, but they are clearly the exception to the rule.)
Last Edited: 11/30/2023 4:23:54 AM by WxM
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OUcat
11/30/2023 10:23 PM
As of 12/1/23 ... the MAC is very much an average unpredictable league. Every team in the league has two or more losses. No team, even among the projected contenders, looks 'stable'.

It's a 5-team MAC race based on the eye test (Akron, Ohio, Toledo, Kent, NIU) with a month for teams like BG, BSU and even EMU to show enough to join that bunch. A 'middle' mid-major league at best.

That's not to say, by the end of the season, a team won't emerge as a cut above. Indeed, most seasons that's exactly what happens. But we're three seasons into the NIL/Transfer Portal era and I think what we are starting to see now are the residual effects of that, in terms of team talent and team chemistry.

The only constant right now at the MAC level is keeping good coaches. I would argue, right now - in whatever order you wish to rank them - the current 5 best MAC teams have the 5-best MAC coaches. No matter how this season wears on, and we fans start complaining and talking about 'hot seats' I say look at Buffalo and then have some second thoughts.
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FearLeon
12/1/2023 9:15 AM
OUcat wrote:expand_more
As of 12/1/23 ... the MAC is very much an average unpredictable league. Every team in the league has two or more losses. No team, even among the projected contenders, looks 'stable'.

It's a 5-team MAC race based on the eye test (Akron, Ohio, Toledo, Kent, NIU) with a month for teams like BG, BSU and even EMU to show enough to join that bunch. A 'middle' mid-major league at best.

That's not to say, by the end of the season, a team won't emerge as a cut above. Indeed, most seasons that's exactly what happens. But we're three seasons into the NIL/Transfer Portal era and I think what we are starting to see now are the residual effects of that, in terms of team talent and team chemistry.

The only constant right now at the MAC level is keeping good coaches. I would argue, right now - in whatever order you wish to rank them - the current 5 best MAC teams have the 5-best MAC coaches. No matter how this season wears on, and we fans start complaining and talking about 'hot seats' I say look at Buffalo and then have some second thoughts.
Buffalo dug its own grave with the hire of Whitesell. That alone is setting them back 7 years. If they were going to promote from within after Oats, it should have gone to Hodgson. Whitesell was a disaster from day one.
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100%Cat
12/1/2023 9:25 AM
OUcat wrote:expand_more
As of 12/1/23 ... the MAC is very much an average unpredictable league. Every team in the league has two or more losses. No team, even among the projected contenders, looks 'stable'.

It's a 5-team MAC race based on the eye test (Akron, Ohio, Toledo, Kent, NIU) with a month for teams like BG, BSU and even EMU to show enough to join that bunch. A 'middle' mid-major league at best.

That's not to say, by the end of the season, a team won't emerge as a cut above. Indeed, most seasons that's exactly what happens. But we're three seasons into the NIL/Transfer Portal era and I think what we are starting to see now are the residual effects of that, in terms of team talent and team chemistry.

The only constant right now at the MAC level is keeping good coaches. I would argue, right now - in whatever order you wish to rank them - the current 5 best MAC teams have the 5-best MAC coaches. No matter how this season wears on, and we fans start complaining and talking about 'hot seats' I say look at Buffalo and then have some second thoughts.
It should make for a wide open weekend in Cleveland. Maybe things will play out differently than we expect right now, but it certainly feels like everyone is vulnerable, to an extent.
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M.D.W.S.T
12/1/2023 11:56 AM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
As of 12/1/23 ... the MAC is very much an average unpredictable league. Every team in the league has two or more losses. No team, even among the projected contenders, looks 'stable'.

It's a 5-team MAC race based on the eye test (Akron, Ohio, Toledo, Kent, NIU) with a month for teams like BG, BSU and even EMU to show enough to join that bunch. A 'middle' mid-major league at best.

That's not to say, by the end of the season, a team won't emerge as a cut above. Indeed, most seasons that's exactly what happens. But we're three seasons into the NIL/Transfer Portal era and I think what we are starting to see now are the residual effects of that, in terms of team talent and team chemistry.

The only constant right now at the MAC level is keeping good coaches. I would argue, right now - in whatever order you wish to rank them - the current 5 best MAC teams have the 5-best MAC coaches. No matter how this season wears on, and we fans start complaining and talking about 'hot seats' I say look at Buffalo and then have some second thoughts.
It should make for a wide open weekend in Cleveland. Maybe things will play out differently than we expect right now, but it certainly feels like everyone is vulnerable, to an extent.
Speaking of Cleveland... I *REALLY* wish this game with Davidson, OSU, WVU, etc was a tournament.
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