menu
Logo
99+
Bobcat Attack Menu
Logo
99+
Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Coaching Carousel - what are the "elite" schools
Page: 1 of 1
OU_Country
General User
Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,401
mail
OU_Country
mail
Posted: 3/26/2014 10:03 AM
settings_applications edit_note
In the thread talking about Shaka, and his apparent rejection of the Marquette deal, I started thinking about what the truly Elite programs, and therefore coaching jobs, are.

I'm tossing out these as the top tier, but which ones are next?

Kentucky
Kansas
Indiana
Louisville
Duke
N. Carolina
Syracuse
Michigan State
UCLA
Arizona
Georgetown
Texas
Ohio State
Pitt
Florida
Oklahoma
colobobcat66
General User
C66
Member Since: 9/1/2006
Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO
Post Count: 4,744
person
mail
colobobcat66
mail
Posted: 3/26/2014 10:54 AM
settings_applications edit_note
Michigan, Connecticut
Mark Lembright '85
General User
ML85
Member Since: 8/22/2010
Location: Highland Heights, OH
Post Count: 2,460
person
mail
Mark Lembright '85
mail
Posted: 3/26/2014 11:00 AM
settings_applications edit_note
Wisconsin and Virginia?  Tennessee?
Last Edited: 3/26/2014 11:00:49 AM by Mark Lembright '85
GoCats105
General User
GC105
Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Post Count: 7,821
person
mail
GoCats105
mail
Posted: 3/26/2014 11:04 AM
settings_applications edit_note
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
In the thread talking about Shaka, and his apparent rejection of the Marquette deal, I started thinking about what the truly Elite programs, and therefore coaching jobs, are.

I'm tossing out these as the top tier, but which ones are next?

Kentucky
Kansas
Indiana
Louisville
Duke
N. Carolina
Syracuse
Michigan State
UCLA
Arizona
Georgetown
Texas
Ohio State
Pitt
Florida
Oklahoma


I'm not so sure Texas, Oklahoma or Pitt make my "elite" group. They would certainly be in the next tier, but not sure they are "elite." Shoot, when's the last time Texas did anything significant in the NCAA Tournament? Or Oklahoma? Personally, I'd put Oklahoma State above both of them. And I would probably replacePitt with UConn in your list.

In the next group I would put (in no particular order):

Villanova
Marquette (falling)
Michigan (rising - fast)
Oklahoma State
Oklahoma
Texas
Pitt
Gonzaga
Xavier
Memphis
Cincinnati
Maryland
Wisconsin

And then there's a whole other list of teams that are jumping back and forth between great and ok like NC State, Wake Forest, UNLV, New Mexico, Purdue, West Virginia, St. John's, Providence, DePaul, Seton Hall. Then you have to think about rising teams like Creighton, Wichita State, Butler, Dayton, etc.

If we're talking about jobs you absolutely can't turn down, I think it comes down to Kansas, UNC, Duke, UCLA, Kentucky and Indiana. I'm interested to see where Syracuse and Georgetown go once Boeheim and someone other than a Thompson coaches them.
Last Edited: 3/26/2014 11:05:16 AM by GoCats105
cincybobcat99
General User
C99
Member Since: 11/8/2007
Post Count: 192
person
mail
cincybobcat99
mail
Posted: 3/26/2014 11:19 AM
settings_applications edit_note
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
In the thread talking about Shaka, and his apparent rejection of the Marquette deal, I started thinking about what the truly Elite programs, and therefore coaching jobs, are.

I'm tossing out these as the top tier, but which ones are next?

Kentucky
Kansas
Indiana
Louisville
Duke
N. Carolina
Syracuse
Michigan State
UCLA
Arizona
Georgetown
Texas
Ohio State
Pitt
Florida
Oklahoma


I would draw a line after Arizona and consider team above "elite" and teams below second tier (along with a few other schools) - although Georgetown I could be talked into throwing them in the elite status. The rest of the teams (minus Pitt) is always going to play second fiddle to the football programs at the schools - I would almost drop UCLA for the same reason (although it is hard to look past the Wooden days).
bornacatfan
General User
Member Since: 8/3/2006
Post Count: 5,752
mail
bornacatfan
mail
Posted: 3/26/2014 2:06 PM
settings_applications edit_note
There are limited Elite schools that have fanbases that are bigger than the coaches they hire. 

Kansas
Kentucky
North Carolina

Others that have had success that are presently destinations are 

Duke
Louisville
Indiana (fast falling from the days of Branch McCracken/RMK)

Those programs that have been successful that still have an aura for an aspiring coach but have not had sustained fanbase participation and have not withstood tests of time

NC State (Frank McGuire/Everett Case)
Cincy
tO$U
UCLA

Remains to be seen whether  these programs will stay strong with coaching changes into the future but I do not consider them destinations at the pinnacle

Syracuse
UCONN
Villanova
Michigan State







 
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
General User
BSNNTO
Member Since: 2/4/2005
Post Count: 3,057
person
mail
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
mail
Posted: 3/26/2014 2:15 PM
settings_applications edit_note
Yeah, I'm always leery of Cult of Personality programs like Duke, UConn, Georgetown and Syracuse being long-term Mount Rushmore programs.

Although Arizona did a nice job of moving past Lute.

 I cannot think of a program that has a bigger hire than Duke does replacing Coach K. If they get it wrong, they're back to being second fiddle to UNC perhaps for a long time.

 
GoCats105
General User
GC105
Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Post Count: 7,821
person
mail
GoCats105
mail
Posted: 3/26/2014 2:30 PM
settings_applications edit_note
Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
Yeah, I'm always leery of Cult of Personality programs like Duke, UConn, Georgetown and Syracuse being long-term Mount Rushmore programs.

Although Arizona did a nice job of moving past Lute.

 I cannot think of a program that has a bigger hire than Duke does replacing Coach K. If they get it wrong, they're back to being second fiddle to UNC perhaps for a long time.

 


Similar to what Penn State football would have dealt with had Paterno left under normal circumstances.
OU_Country
General User
Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,401
mail
OU_Country
mail
Posted: 3/26/2014 4:53 PM
settings_applications edit_note
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
In the thread talking about Shaka, and his apparent rejection of the Marquette deal, I started thinking about what the truly Elite programs, and therefore coaching jobs, are.

I'm tossing out these as the top tier, but which ones are next?

Kentucky
Kansas
Indiana
Louisville
Duke
N. Carolina
Syracuse
Michigan State
UCLA
Arizona
Georgetown
Texas
Ohio State
Pitt
Florida
Oklahoma


I'm not so sure Texas, Oklahoma or Pitt make my "elite" group. They would certainly be in the next tier, but not sure they are "elite." Shoot, when's the last time Texas did anything significant in the NCAA Tournament? Or Oklahoma? Personally, I'd put Oklahoma State above both of them. And I would probably replacePitt with UConn in your list.

In the next group I would put (in no particular order):

Villanova
Marquette (falling)
Michigan (rising - fast)
Oklahoma State
Oklahoma
Texas
Pitt
Gonzaga
Xavier
Memphis
Cincinnati
Maryland
Wisconsin

And then there's a whole other list of teams that are jumping back and forth between great and ok like NC State, Wake Forest, UNLV, New Mexico, Purdue, West Virginia, St. John's, Providence, DePaul, Seton Hall. Then you have to think about rising teams like Creighton, Wichita State, Butler, Dayton, etc.

If we're talking about jobs you absolutely can't turn down, I think it comes down to Kansas, UNC, Duke, UCLA, Kentucky and Indiana. I'm interested to see where Syracuse and Georgetown go once Boeheim and someone other than a Thompson coaches them.


I find the Oklahoma State inclusion interesting.  I like a lot about them, but I would put even Texas above them myself.

When including UNLV & New Mexico, you absolutely MUST also put San Diego State into the conversation.  In that second tier, is Stanford part of the conversation?  Oregon? Mizzou?  Bama?  BYU?


I also find it interesting that Notre Dame and Purdue aren't on any post thus far.
 

OU_Country
General User
Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,401
mail
OU_Country
mail
Posted: 3/26/2014 4:54 PM
settings_applications edit_note
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
There are limited Elite schools that have fanbases that are bigger than the coaches they hire. 

Kansas
Kentucky
North Carolina

Others that have had success that are presently destinations are 

Duke
Louisville
Indiana (fast falling from the days of Branch McCracken/RMK)

Those programs that have been successful that still have an aura for an aspiring coach but have not had sustained fanbase participation and have not withstood tests of time

NC State (Frank McGuire/Everett Case)
Cincy
tO$U
UCLA

Remains to be seen whether  these programs will stay strong with coaching changes into the future but I do not consider them destinations at the pinnacle

Syracuse
UCONN
Villanova
Michigan State

 


I like the way you sort them out here.  My only question is, why not put Indiana in that top tier?
Brufus
General User
B
Member Since: 12/13/2011
Location: Wherever Miami and Michigan suck
Post Count: 439
person
mail
Brufus
mail
Posted: 3/26/2014 5:44 PM
settings_applications edit_note
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
There are limited Elite schools that have fanbases that are bigger than the coaches they hire. 

Kansas
Kentucky
North Carolina

Others that have had success that are presently destinations are 

Duke
Louisville
Indiana (fast falling from the days of Branch McCracken/RMK)

Those programs that have been successful that still have an aura for an aspiring coach but have not had sustained fanbase participation and have not withstood tests of time

NC State (Frank McGuire/Everett Case)
Cincy
tO$U
UCLA

Remains to be seen whether  these programs will stay strong with coaching changes into the future but I do not consider them destinations at the pinnacle

Syracuse
UCONN
Villanova
Michigan State

 


I like the way you sort them out here.  My only question is, why not put Indiana in that top tier?


My answer to that question would be maybe that Indiana is still on the rise? As much progress as Tom Crean has made in 6 seasons, this season helps serve as proof that the rebuilding is not done
Athens
General User
A
Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 5,454
person
mail
Athens
mail
Posted: 3/26/2014 6:51 PM
settings_applications edit_note
Tough to pick out who is in the first tier and who is in the second. Michigan State to be belongs in the first tier because they have the large arena and recent final fours. I would place Georgetown and Villanova in the second tier with Memphis and Xavier. To be true first tier you have to be a member of a BCS conference. Third tier I would reserve for programs like New Mexico and San Diego State that are in the Top 20 every once in a while.
OU_Country
General User
Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,401
mail
OU_Country
mail
Posted: 3/26/2014 9:10 PM
settings_applications edit_note
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
Tough to pick out who is in the first tier and who is in the second. Michigan State to be belongs in the first tier because they have the large arena and recent final fours. I would place Georgetown and Villanova in the second tier with Memphis and Xavier. To be true first tier you have to be a member of a BCS conference. Third tier I would reserve for programs like New Mexico and San Diego State that are in the Top 20 every once in a while.


BCS Conference?  I'll take the quality of the Mountain West over the quality of the "new" Big East at the current time.
Showing Messages: 1 - 13 of 13
reply
vertical_align_top
vertical_align_center
vertical_align_bottom
add_comment
MAC News Links



extra small (< 576px)
small (>= 576px)
medium (>= 768px)
large (>= 992px)
x-large (>= 1200px)
xx-large (>= 1400px)