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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: MAC Staying Power story from the Plain Dealer
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OU_Country
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Posted: 4/2/2014 9:54 AM
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I know this story from The Plain Dealer was in the News feeds, but I thought it was worthy of discussion given the JC rumors.  Does OUr program really have the staying power to be a top 3 program every year?

I'd like to believe it does, but another coaching change just 2 years later with 2 open scholly's plus 4 recruits that could re-open their recruitment gives me some doubt.  That could potentially set us back a couple years.
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 4/2/2014 10:09 AM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
I know this story from The Plain Dealer was in the News feeds, but I thought it was worthy of discussion given the JC rumors.  Does OUr program really have the staying power to be a top 3 program every year?

I'd like to believe it does, but another coaching change just 2 years later with 2 open scholly's plus 4 recruits that could re-open their recruitment gives me some doubt.  That could potentially set us back a couple years.


+1
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Posted: 4/2/2014 10:23 AM
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Disagree with the article.  The best thing for the MAC, just as it was for those other leagues mentioned, would be to hav one Top 20 team run the league year in and year out for a while so the other teams get better and make the MAC at least a two bid league.  Question is: who in the MAC can do that with all the coaching changes? Answer: probably nobody which is why the MAC won't be a two bid league for a long long time.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 4/2/2014 10:55 AM
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Quote:expand_more
Nobody in the MAC seemingly wants to be the brand name for the league, like Wichita State is for the Missouri Valley, Gonzaga is for the West Coast Conference, or Butler once was for the Horizon League..


Geez .......

we have never heard this here before ......or had anyone think that OHIO should be the one to do this.......
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Posted: 4/2/2014 11:03 AM
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Right now, I would say it would either be Ohio or Akron -- and most likely Ohio.  We're the only MAC school with NCAA tourney wins in the last decade or so, and I think winning in the Dance matters.  The next step is to knock off some high-profile teams during the regular season.  It would be a big boost to take out Wichita St, Nebraska, GW and/or Colorado in Hawaii this December.
OUVan
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Posted: 4/2/2014 11:14 AM
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Love this line from the article.

Elton Alexander wrote:expand_more

Also, the Falcons stepped up significantly in the contract department as Jans has a $325,000 a year contract which will place him solidly near the top half of MAC coaching salaries.

.


As for the article, I fully expect us to stay in the top 3 year-in-year out.  We may hit an occasional hiccup after a coaching change but based on our financial commitment to basketball there is no reason we should see a big drop off.   That is, of course, with the expectation that we don't run into our own version of Ronnie Thompson (or Rob Senderoff).  I don't buy Elton's conclusion that success means that teams will then spend less.  I think that is more of a factor of football eating away at those programs basketball budgets. Each of those programs has a different reason for their subsequent lack of success.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 11:34 AM
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Staying power? We need some leaving power too,  as In EMU for starters.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 11:51 AM
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OUVan wrote:expand_more
Love this line from the article.

Also, the Falcons stepped up significantly in the contract department as Jans has a $325,000 a year contract which will place him solidly near the top half of MAC coaching salaries.

.


As for the article, I fully expect us to stay in the top 3 year-in-year out.  We may hit an occasional hiccup after a coaching change but based on our financial commitment to basketball there is no reason we should see a big drop off.   That is, of course, with the expectation that we don't run into our own version of Ronnie Thompson (or Rob Senderoff).  I don't buy Elton's conclusion that success means that teams will then spend less.  I think that is more of a factor of football eating away at those programs basketball budgets. Each of those programs has a different reason for their subsequent lack of success.


I wonder how much Buffalo's "NIT or Nothing" stance was due to Hurley's pride and how much was due to the football team's bowl trip eating into the athletics budget.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 11:52 AM
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That column is bizarre.  If I was Akron I would be livid at that column. 

Akron has had the staying power.  It wins tons of games.  And has played in 7 of the last 8 MAC Championship games and been to the NCAA's 3 of the last 6 seasons.

They obviously have the staying power and are the face of the MAC.  I don't get it, Elton.....

The biggest reason Akron has the staying power is no big programs want to hire Dambrot.  So, he'll stay there, recruit well for the MAC, ignore any program image concerns (coming soon, Abreu starting at PG), and they'll keep winning.

None of the other programs in the MAC will ever pay enough to keep a coach long enough.  Including Ohio.  $400K is nice.  But Geno Ford gets almost twice that at Bradley.  Bradley.

It felt like Jim Christian would be here for many years.  But, dangle $1.5 million per year for a gig where you grew up and thing are going to change.  And good for him.

To sustain a program in the MAC you have to get lucky hiring 2-3 coaches in a row.  And, that just doesn't happen.
Last Edited: 4/2/2014 11:52:21 AM by Ohio69
OU_Country
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Posted: 4/2/2014 12:09 PM
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bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Nobody in the MAC seemingly wants to be the brand name for the league, like Wichita State is for the Missouri Valley, Gonzaga is for the West Coast Conference, or Butler once was for the Horizon League..


Geez .......

we have never heard this here before ......or had anyone think that OHIO should be the one to do this.......


You're right, I've never heard it once on here. 






Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
That column is bizarre.  If I was Akron I would be livid at that column. 

Akron has had the staying power.  It wins tons of games.  And has played in 7 of the last 8 MAC Championship games and been to the NCAA's 3 of the last 6 seasons.

They obviously have the staying power and are the face of the MAC.  I don't get it, Elton.....

The biggest reason Akron has the staying power is no big programs want to hire Dambrot.  So, he'll stay there, recruit well for the MAC, ignore any program image concerns (coming soon, Abreu starting at PG), and they'll keep winning.

None of the other programs in the MAC will ever pay enough to keep a coach long enough.  Including Ohio.  $400K is nice.  But Geno Ford gets almost twice that at Bradley.  Bradley.

It felt like Jim Christian would be here for many years.  But, dangle $1.5 million per year for a gig where you grew up and thing are going to change.  And good for him.

To sustain a program in the MAC you have to get lucky hiring 2-3 coaches in a row.  And, that just doesn't happen.





Two things stop me from agreeing with you about Akron being the face of the MAC, even though they should be:

1)  Despite all their success within the conference, they have NEVER won an NCAA Tournament game.  That's a key problem for them.

2)  They play in a bandbox gym in a decent sized city that they can't fill to the rafters consistently despite how successful they've been.  Conversely, Ohio has a nice arena in a small town and still manages to get 6k in the seats on a Wednesday when class is in session against the worst teams.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 12:12 PM
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I absolutely for a fact can state that NO ONE in my circles in Indiana or nationally see AKRON as the face of the MAC. Many know OHIO based on recent tourney success and upsets but AKRON is only regarded as the face of the MAC by those who have seen them in Cleveland. There is more buzz about Toledo in the MAC than anything. 

The only way to become the face of the MAC is to compete and win. Belmont, Murray State, WInthrop, Manhattan are all recognizable in their conferences as the up and comer in that conference. Horizon lost Butler and no one has emerged yet in that conference. 

We have the facility, the fanbase and the momentum to run this thing. AD is doing his job. Need Christian to amp it up and set goals ....if he leaves we need a real visionary hire to further the foundation that began in 08 and mobilized the fanbase. NO REASON not to run the MAC and be dominant. 

 
Casper71
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Posted: 4/2/2014 12:13 PM
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Top 3 for OHIO consistently?  Weren't we #5/6 in the Tourney seedings this year?
OUVan
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Posted: 4/2/2014 12:21 PM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Top 3 for OHIO consistently?  Weren't we #5/6 in the Tourney seedings this year?


Considering the schedule we played (the toughest possible in the current setup) and the injuries we had finishing 5th was pretty remarkable.   I know you love seeing every situation in a negative light but even you have to admit that we are one of the top 2 programs in the MAC right now along with Akron.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 12:29 PM
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Also interesting that Dambrot's name isn't being bandied about as a BC candidate…and he's been more successful than JC.

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Posted: 4/2/2014 12:38 PM
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Good coach but can't do anything outside of the MAC. Even look at there out of conference record this year, it was awful. I think they went 9-4 against a joke schedule. and Every time they make the tourney they get embarrassed. They've never been close to winning anything on the national stage.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 12:41 PM
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I think OU has the staying power. This all assumes we can keep Jim Schaus around for awhile. He has been doing a good job of hiring quality coaches and maintaining an image about our athletic programs. 

Even if JC leaves, which would considering we have a large recruiting class coming in and may lose one or two. Schaus has shown he can go get the guy we need for the program. 

As for staying power in the MAC, I believe Toledo, Akron, and OU are the three mainstays (in basketball) just looking the class structure and talent level currently at the schools. With Akron and Toledo having locked up their coaches for the foreseeable future. 


 
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Posted: 4/2/2014 12:50 PM
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bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
We have the facility, the fanbase and the momentum to run this thing. AD is doing his job. Need Christian to amp it up and set goals ....if he leaves we need a real visionary hire to further the foundation that began in 08 and mobilized the fanbase. NO REASON not to run the MAC and be dominant. 

 


I thought we had program goals under Christian.  Has he not set goals?  How is he not a visionary leader?  Just because someone isn't extremely charismatic doesn't mean they don't set goals and communicate those to his players.  Are you saying he needs to communicate these goals more often and explicitly to the fan base? 
catfan28
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Posted: 4/2/2014 1:22 PM
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Dexcat wrote:expand_more
As for staying power in the MAC, I believe Toledo, Akron, and OU are the three mainstays (in basketball) just looking the class structure and talent level currently at the schools. With Akron and Toledo having locked up their coaches for the foreseeable future.


I'm definitely not ready to count Toledo in. Prior to this year, they had some atrocious seasons. They'll have to show more than one good year.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 1:37 PM
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
That column is bizarre.  
  I don't get it, Elton.....

 


That could the thread to anything Elton writes
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Posted: 4/2/2014 2:44 PM
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We are already spending 50% more on basketball than our nearest peer in the MAC.  We are head and shoulders above the MAC in attendance and game day atmosphere.

How much more should/would it take to separate ourselves competitively on the floor?  Discuss
GoCats105
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Posted: 4/2/2014 2:50 PM
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D.A. wrote:expand_more
We are already spending 50% more on basketball than our nearest peer in the MAC.  We are head and shoulders above the MAC in attendance and game day atmosphere.

How much more should/would it take to separate ourselves competitively on the floor?  Discuss


That would mean opening up the can of worms on whether or not to drop football...again. That's what it would take to separate. Or having an alum win the lottery and donating millions to the school and AD.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 2:53 PM
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D.A. wrote:expand_more
We are already spending 50% more on basketball than our nearest peer in the MAC.  We are head and shoulders above the MAC in attendance and game day atmosphere.

How much more should/would it take to separate ourselves competitively on the floor?  Discuss

To quote bornacatfan, "Dominance."

We haven't ever had a period of dominance as far as stringing together conference championships and tournament championships. In fact, we haven't really come close. Because we've won NCAA Tourney games, we're likely the best-respected MAC program, but Akron has been more dominant when it comes to titles and winning percentage.

 
D.A.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 2:54 PM
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GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
We are already spending 50% more on basketball than our nearest peer in the MAC.  We are head and shoulders above the MAC in attendance and game day atmosphere.

How much more should/would it take to separate ourselves competitively on the floor?  Discuss


That would mean opening up the can of worms on whether or not to drop football...again. That's what it would take to separate. Or having an alum win the lottery and donating millions to the school and AD.

Unpopular opinion alert: If we cannot separate and be the face of the MAC by spending 50% more than our peers in the MAC, then perhaps we should think about dropping basketball.

But in all seriousness, my suggestion is that it has to take more than just money to separate and be THE team in any conference, and how much you are spending on any, if not all, the other sports is a red herring.

 
Last Edited: 4/2/2014 2:55:07 PM by D.A.
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Posted: 4/2/2014 3:09 PM
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Quote:expand_more
It felt like Jim Christian would be here for many years.  But, dangle $1.5 million per year for a gig where you grew up and thing are going to change.  And good for him.


Coach Christian didn't grow up in boston.  He went to college at Boston University for 2 years but grew up on Long Island
OUVan
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Posted: 4/2/2014 3:16 PM
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Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
To quote bornacatfan, "Dominance."

We haven't ever had a period of dominance as far as stringing together conference championships and tournament championships. In fact, we haven't really come close. Because we've won NCAA Tourney games, we're likely the best-respected MAC program, but Akron has been more dominant when it comes to titles and winning percentage.

 


They have the magic bullet. They have been able to retain a successful coach.   Over time I have no doubt that if we keep up the funding we will be "that team" in the MAC.  There is too much history showing the funding dictating success to think otherwise.
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