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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: JC to Boston College?
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Recovering Journalist
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Posted: 4/1/2014 7:31 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
if you're going to dream big, dream bigger than Boston College for crying out loud.


In college basketball, what's bigger than the ACC? If this job fell in his lap, he'd be crazy to turn it down. I get that you're an Ohio fan, but $425,000 in the MAC versus $1 million in the ACC is not even a remotely close competition.
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Posted: 4/1/2014 7:48 PM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
So, uh, this could be a big mess recruiting. I could see all 4 recruits getting released. That would be 6 holes to fill. Could set the program back big time.

The anti-Boals folks think he has been passed over for jobs. You sure he hasn't refused jobs? Look at Wojo to Marquette. Wojo could have had tons of jobs over the past several years and says he was waiting for the right one. I'd do the same if I was Boals. And, lets be honest, there are only 2-3 MAC jobs that are worth anything.

If I'm Jim Christian I take the BC job. No question. ACC. A program that has had success in the not so distant past. Life changing money for your family. Great for assistant coaches. Good grief. What's not to like.


In all fairness, $425K a year in Athens/Southeastern Ohio already is life changing money. If his decision at this point in his career is strictly money based, I would be extremely surprised.

As for going to the ACC, he may like the exposure, but may not like the pressure that would come with that particular job. Whoever gets hired there will be under extreme scrutiny to get the program back on track in my opinion. I think he could do it, it would be easier to recruit to the ACC.

However, over the past few years a shift has begun in college basketball. Mid Majors are winning more and more. It is proven that you can win anywhere given the right facilities, fan base, and overall university/community investment. Sure you may not get the McDonalds all Americans but the talent pool is filling up and player development (which I perceive to be his strongest skill) are what are beginning to matter most.


$425,000 is not life changing money. It's a good income, but people who make $425,000 still have a mortgage and tend to finance cars. They worry about saving enough money for college and retirement. Maybe D.A. will disagree, but housing is the only big expense that is exponentially different in Boston. People may upgrade their standard of living in a big city, but the basic goods and services of everyday life are essentially the same everywhere. Making $1,000,000/yr is a huge difference because it allows you to save and invest so much more.

You could argue gas and entertainment in some markets is significantly more. Dining out is going to be about double plus a higher tip expectation. All of that is only another 300 dollars more a month when tallied. The question I think is should Ohio counter offer BC? I say no. Ohio could raise the bar higher and pick up one of these coaches fired from a power conference job for 650,000. Why give the money to JC when you can give it to a Top 40 recruiter?
 
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Posted: 4/1/2014 7:48 PM
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yeah, BC is in the ACC, and Northwestern is in the B1G. Doesn't mean they're good jobs. What's the best case scenario at BC, you finish just behind Duke, and Syracuse, and North Carolina, and Louisville, and Virginia, and Clemson, and NC State, and so on...? A .500 conference record would be a high water mark.

You think JC is going to out recruit those coaches? He has more to offer a recruit at Ohio (instant playing time, a la NDour) than at the hopefully 8th best team in the ACC.
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Posted: 4/1/2014 7:50 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
if you're going to dream big, dream bigger than Boston College for crying out loud.


This is not about "dreaming".  You can only go where somebody invites you.  I can tell you that they called him and at the time, there was no expectation of being anywhere else next year but OU.  When an ACC school calls and offers you life altering money, you owe it to yourself and your family to listen.  And  they are talking much more than $1 million a year.
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Posted: 4/1/2014 7:54 PM
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LongDistancebobcat wrote:expand_more
if you're going to dream big, dream bigger than Boston College for crying out loud.


This is not about "dreaming".  You can only go where somebody invites you.  I can tell you that they called him and at the time, there was no expectation of being anywhere else next year but OU.  When an ACC school calls and offers you life altering money, you owe it to yourself and your family to listen.  And  they are talking much more than $1 million a year.

It may be less than 1 million from the sound of some of the names that have popped up. Some power conference schools are only paying in the 600-700k range if they don't have the big name coach. I think they would be aiming higher than JC if they wanted to lay out 2.5 million per year.

 
Last Edited: 4/1/2014 7:56:41 PM by Athens
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Posted: 4/1/2014 8:06 PM
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Anyone who makes $400,000 a year in Athens, Ohio, and has a car loan is a moron.
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Posted: 4/1/2014 8:06 PM
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Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
if you're going to dream big, dream bigger than Boston College for crying out loud.


This is not about "dreaming".  You can only go where somebody invites you.  I can tell you that they called him and at the time, there was no expectation of being anywhere else next year but OU.  When an ACC school calls and offers you life altering money, you owe it to yourself and your family to listen.  And  they are talking much more than $1 million a year.

It may be less than 1 million from the sound of some of the names that have popped up. Some power conference schools are only paying in the 600-700k range if they don't have the big name coach. I think they would be aiming higher than JC if they wanted to lay out 2.5 million per year.

 


Most of the coaches in the ACC are well above $1.5 million, so LDB probably speaks the truth again.

LDB = JC? ;-)
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Posted: 4/1/2014 8:08 PM
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LongDistancebobcat wrote:expand_more
if you're going to dream big, dream bigger than Boston College for crying out loud.


This is not about "dreaming".  You can only go where somebody invites you.  I can tell you that they called him and at the time, there was no expectation of being anywhere else next year but OU.  When an ACC school calls and offers you life altering money, you owe it to yourself and your family to listen.  And  they are talking much more than $1 million a year.


John Groce went from coaching at Ohio to coaching at Illinois. You can win a national championship at Illinois. Boston College? Eh, not so much. If a pay increase is what he's after, he should win MAC Tournament championships and wait for better opening to come his way.
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Posted: 4/1/2014 8:22 PM
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In many ways, Boston College = TCU. He clearly was dissatisfied with his position there, so I just find it head scratching that he'd want to go right back into a similar place. Your odds of being on the hot seat in three years are VERY high.

More than that, I'm surprised BC is even interested. JC is from the northeast, but almost all of his coaching experience (and presumably recruiting ties) is primarily in the Midwest. He's never won an NCAA Tournament game, and has had two "above average" but not spectacular seasons at OU. Reading some comments online, I think most of their fanbase would implode if they made this hire. They had their expectations far higher.
Last Edited: 4/1/2014 8:23:16 PM by catfan28
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Posted: 4/1/2014 8:29 PM
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catfan28 wrote:expand_more
Reading some comments online, I think most of their fanbase would implode if they made this hire. They had their expectations far higher.


Don't forget that the Illinois fanbase was the same way and I do recall a rather large implosion among them when Groce was hired.
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Posted: 4/1/2014 8:33 PM
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Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
100 times out of 100 here = Dustin Ford over Kuwik with gun to head. Better pedigree.  Honestly, I don't want anyone from the TOS tree.

Isn't Dustin Ford from the TOS tree originally and was kept on staff by Groce?

No - he is from the Gene Ford tree..............

 
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Posted: 4/1/2014 8:48 PM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
So, uh, this could be a big mess recruiting. I could see all 4 recruits getting released. That would be 6 holes to fill. Could set the program back big time.

The anti-Boals folks think he has been passed over for jobs. You sure he hasn't refused jobs? Look at Wojo to Marquette. Wojo could have had tons of jobs over the past several years and says he was waiting for the right one. I'd do the same if I was Boals. And, lets be honest, there are only 2-3 MAC jobs that are worth anything.

If I'm Jim Christian I take the BC job. No question. ACC. A program that has had success in the not so distant past. Life changing money for your family. Great for assistant coaches. Good grief. What's not to like.


In all fairness, $425K a year in Athens/Southeastern Ohio already is life changing money. If his decision at this point in his career is strictly money based, I would be extremely surprised.

As for going to the ACC, he may like the exposure, but may not like the pressure that would come with that particular job. Whoever gets hired there will be under extreme scrutiny to get the program back on track in my opinion. I think he could do it, it would be easier to recruit to the ACC.

However, over the past few years a shift has begun in college basketball. Mid Majors are winning more and more. It is proven that you can win anywhere given the right facilities, fan base, and overall university/community investment. Sure you may not get the McDonalds all Americans but the talent pool is filling up and player development (which I perceive to be his strongest skill) are what are beginning to matter most.


$425,000 is not life changing money. It's a good income, but people who make $425,000 still have a mortgage and tend to finance cars. They worry about saving enough money for college and retirement. Maybe D.A. will disagree, but housing is the only big expense that is exponentially different in Boston. People may upgrade their standard of living in a big city, but the basic goods and services of everyday life are essentially the same everywhere. Making $1,000,000/yr is a huge difference because it allows you to save and invest so much more.

If I'm advising someone to take the job at BC over Ohio, I would agree with Ohio69 on this. It is a great financial move, as well as a more prestigious job in his chosen career field. He may or may not be offered the job, but I cannot see a compelling reason to turn down an offer.

Agreed, he would pay three times per square foot (if not more) for the equivalent home in Brookline/Newton, but the other things are similar that are daily necessities.  Knowing he has kids, I am certain the world class hospitals/health care in the city would be a huge draw.  I have no idea how old his kids are, but the fact that his kids would likely get free tuition at BC when college age if he were still coach there (a $60k per year nut at a top 30 institution) would be a major motivator.  And the facilities are extremely nice.  So yeah, I have no idea why he would want to take a $525k pay raise per year.

One thing that would be liberating is that he would not have to worry about having too many Wal Mart fans/community support, because most everyone in Boston who didn't go to BC hates BC.  So add anonymity to the equation, which I believe he would value, and there is absolutely no chance he wouldn't, nee shouldn't take that gig.
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Posted: 4/1/2014 9:08 PM
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Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
Anyone who makes $400,000 a year in Athens, Ohio, and has a car loan is a moron.


Not necessarily. Considering how low the finance rates are on new cars, you can possibly earn more interest on the money in a CD or bond or even a high-balance savings acct. you might as well finance the car at a miniscule rate. just because you can pay cash doesn't always mean you should. Plus, you still need to build and exercise good credit for the things you NEED loans for.
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Posted: 4/1/2014 9:19 PM
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shabamon wrote:expand_more
if you're going to dream big, dream bigger than Boston College for crying out loud.


This is not about "dreaming".  You can only go where somebody invites you.  I can tell you that they called him and at the time, there was no expectation of being anywhere else next year but OU.  When an ACC school calls and offers you life altering money, you owe it to yourself and your family to listen.  And  they are talking much more than $1 million a year.


John Groce went from coaching at Ohio to coaching at Illinois. You can win a national championship at Illinois. Boston College? Eh, not so much. If a pay increase is what he's after, he should win MAC Tournament championships and wait for better opening to come his way.


really neither here nor there, but I actually ran into John Groce this evening on Flatbush Ave by the Barclays Center. He was wearing a suit with an Illini pin, so I assume he was there in some official capacity. Maybe visiting Deron Williams? Or recruiting? He had a whole entourage of folks with him, none of whom I recognized. 
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Posted: 4/1/2014 9:37 PM
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Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Anyone who makes $400,000 a year in Athens, Ohio, and has a car loan is a moron.


Not necessarily. Considering how low the finance rates are on new cars, you can possibly earn more interest on the money in a CD or bond or even a high-balance savings acct. you might as well finance the car at a miniscule rate. just because you can pay cash doesn't always mean you should. Plus, you still need to build and exercise good credit for the things you NEED loans for.

When you put 50% down on a car the amount of interest on a car loan is only a few hundred dollars over the life of a loan. This is for a mid priced domestic car. When you don't put anything down then it can be if you get stuck at 4.9 financing a situation where you pay a few thousand with the interest front loaded. I've done it both ways before. Always take your best price at the dealer and agree to whatever financing then refi with the loan with another institution. A small car payment and then trade it in once its paid off to minimize maintenance cost. JC can put his CIT bonus down on a Porsche SUV for the family.

 
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Posted: 4/1/2014 9:38 PM
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People thinking a mortgage and car loan are a good idea while taking in 425k every year is why this nation is 17tn in debt. #siberia
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Posted: 4/1/2014 9:38 PM
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
if you're going to dream big, dream bigger than Boston College for crying out loud.


This is not about "dreaming".  You can only go where somebody invites you.  I can tell you that they called him and at the time, there was no expectation of being anywhere else next year but OU.  When an ACC school calls and offers you life altering money, you owe it to yourself and your family to listen.  And  they are talking much more than $1 million a year.


John Groce went from coaching at Ohio to coaching at Illinois. You can win a national championship at Illinois. Boston College? Eh, not so much. If a pay increase is what he's after, he should win MAC Tournament championships and wait for better opening to come his way.


really neither here nor there, but I actually ran into John Groce this evening on Flatbush Ave by the Barclays Center. He was wearing a suit with an Illini pin, so I assume he was there in some official capacity. Maybe visiting Deron Williams? Or recruiting? He had a whole entourage of folks with him, none of whom I recognized. 

Jay-Z better look out for competition on his block.

 
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Posted: 4/1/2014 9:44 PM
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Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Anyone who makes $400,000 a year in Athens, Ohio, and has a car loan is a moron.


Not necessarily. Considering how low the finance rates are on new cars, you can possibly earn more interest on the money in a CD or bond or even a high-balance savings acct. you might as well finance the car at a miniscule rate. just because you can pay cash doesn't always mean you should. Plus, you still need to build and exercise good credit for the things you NEED loans for.

Are there really CDs or savings accounts that you can make worthwhile money off of right now? I think CD rates around here are less than 1/2 percent. And are they really more than the interest on a car? I know those are low right now, but that low?
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Posted: 4/1/2014 9:47 PM
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The Optimist wrote:expand_more
People thinking a mortgage and car loan are a good idea while taking in 425k every year is why this nation is 17tn in debt. #siberia


You think $425K a year allows you to buy a house without a mortgage?  
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Posted: 4/1/2014 9:52 PM
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OUVan wrote:expand_more
People thinking a mortgage and car loan are a good idea while taking in 425k every year is why this nation is 17tn in debt. #siberia


You think $425K a year allows you to buy a house without a mortgage?  

Save up for a year and buy a 150k dollar home in cash.

 
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Posted: 4/1/2014 10:09 PM
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The Optimist wrote:expand_more
People thinking a mortgage and car loan are a good idea while taking in 425k every year is why this nation is 17tn in debt. #siberia
Not all debt is bad. You'd be foolish to tie up X amount of dollars by paying cash for a house. Houses are not growing in value like they were in the 80s or the mid 00s so invest your money in something that will give you a larger ROI. If you've got good credit you can get a mortgage with a rate that is next to nothing, especially if you go for a shorter term like 10 or 15 years. Take your house money and invest it in a portfolio that will give you larger returns than what you are being charged, you'll actually make money by taking on debt. Not to mention the interest on your mortgage is a deduction on your tax returns as well.
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Posted: 4/1/2014 10:12 PM
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JC has been a D-1 head coach for a fair number of years, therefore, I would guess that he has the resources to pay cash for a house if he so desired.
None of us know much or anything about JC's financial philosophy or even his desired standard of living, so all this talk about what he's able to buy, etc is just something to jaw about while we wait to see if he's offered the job. Since he interviewed, I'm guessing he'll take it if it's offered, but who knows.
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Posted: 4/1/2014 10:46 PM
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I think what today has shown, is that even if JC doesn't get the job, his days at Ohio are definitely numbered at 1-2 years @ most and here's my reasoning.  We want JC to be as successful as possible here.  What if he actually comes close to that?  If JC's attractive to an ACC team with an Ohio team that made the 3rd Round of the CIT this year, how attractive would he be if he actually won an NIT game or actually won his first NCAA Tourney game while at Ohio?  If Christian gets Ohio to win 25 games next year (I'm not saying he will-I'm just playing the what-if game) I truly doubt he's here the following year.

Where I was wrong and naive with JC is actually thinking he wanted to stay here 5 years or so.  I knew he wouldn't be a lifer as those don't exist but I also didn't think he'd consider bolting after 2 years.

I also think today hurts JC's recruiting for Ohio.  Ohio's got 2 schollies open for 2014.  Given that JC's already interviewed for another job, how can he possibly go into a potential recruit's living room and say he's staying at Ohio for 4 more years?   True, potential recruits know in the back of their mind that any coach can leave at any time but today's revelations about JC interviewing for the BC job really reinforces that possibility.  If I'm Dambrot or any other MAC coach I'm asking potential recruits why they would consider playing for JC at Ohio when he's looking to leave.  That might not be a totally accurate portrayal of the situation but recruiting's a cutthroat business.  At a minimum JC's "considering" leaving Ohio and that news has to give any potential recruit pause.

To be honest I sort of hope JC gets the job and just gets this whole thing over with.
Last Edited: 4/1/2014 10:48:56 PM by Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 4/1/2014 11:08 PM
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I agree with most of what's been said up to this point.  Athens is not his home and if he still has an unfullfilled itch that the TCU opportunity didn't satisfy, at 49 years old, this is probably the time to have no regrets.    He'll be at best a middle of the conference coach, get to say he coached in the ACC, shake hands with the big wigs and collect his cash.  That's what most of them strive for (maybe not having an insignificant team, but the rest), so you can't blame him if that's his heart.

Personally, now that JC's here and were in year three, I hope he stays.  He's solid, we'll be in the MAC hunt most years with him and you could do a lot worse.  He's a low risk coach for Ohio.  At the same time, I'm not sweating this one at all.  I'll follow the daily soap opera like most loyal fans, but I'm not emotionally attached.  I guess to be more blunt, I hope he stays, but if we've started this "other job stuff" already, I just assume he goes sooner rather than later.  

While I'm typically the type of guy that likes to go with the solid choice in most decisions, I must admit I'm a bit intrigued by exploring a higher risk/potentially higher ceiling coach.  Now after a 12-15 win season, which I doubt we'd have with JC, I may change my mind--but it's at least a bit compelling if our hand was forced to hire again.
JC to me is like a juiced up Larry Hunter, or a poor-mans Bob Huggins--he's probably in between the two, especially in regards to demeanor.   It's like going to Athens for pizza and choosing Pizza Hut.  Like shopping for a car and picking a Ford or maybe even a Honda.  Pizza Hut and Fords are solid choices that are good/very good.  Both low risk choices it's hard to go wrong with, but they're just a bit boring and turn no heads.   If I'm BC, that's probably why I don't hire him.  Yes I think he could take an 8-24 team and within a few years be 16-16, 17-15 or 18-14 and that's commendable considering where they're at now.  But is he going to knock heads with the other ACC guys for ACC-type recruits?  Does he have the charisma to make a splash in the Boston market?  Does he have the ceiling to even dream of doing big things in the ACC?   The same could be said about JG, but you knew that once he got in there he would energize the program.  Will JC energize the BC fanbase after he gets there?  I just don't think so.  Solid, yes.  Extraordinary--probably not.   And if you're BC and swinging for a home run, but can't find a homerun hitter--then a doubles guy is better than most.  Doubles are pretty good and better than a whiffer.  Don't think JC would whiff, but I don't think he'd hit many homers either.  

Once again, hope he stays and we'll be better off especially in the short term if he does.  But if he doesn't, I don't really care.   Just going roll with the punches and see if Door #2 is a bigger prize, or a booby prize.  

 
Last Edited: 4/1/2014 11:11:23 PM by Chicken George
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Posted: 4/1/2014 11:28 PM
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So all we know is they called and he listened.
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