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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Why is it...
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D.A.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:26 PM
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...most everyone is assuming the bottom is going to fall out of this thing, when it is quite possible (nee probable) that we can hire a better coach for less than we paid Jim Christian?  Discuss.
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:35 PM
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Personally, I hate where he left the program in terms of guard depth. The next coach is boxed in stylistically next season.
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:40 PM
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Brian Smith wrote:expand_more
Personally, I hate where he left the program in terms of guard depth. The next coach is boxed in stylistically next season.

The next coach still has 3 scholarships to work with. If he wants guards he can bring in guards. 

 
brucecuth
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:41 PM
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We already know that Tariq Owens wants to bail out of the recruiting class and there is concern that others will and some current players may transfer.

We can say whatever we want about JC's coaching, but he won 49 games over 2 years.  That's pretty damn good no matter what his shortcomings.  I felt that hext year held a LOT of potential with the recruits we had coming in...

Yes, we may get a better coach.  We might not, too....
Athens
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Posted: 4/3/2014 7:01 PM
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D.A. wrote:expand_more
...most everyone is assuming the bottom is going to fall out of this thing, when it is quite possible (nee probable) that we can hire a better coach for less than we paid Jim Christian?  Discuss.

I'd be surprised if we brought in the next coach for less than what we paid Christian. We first raised the bar for JG's salary, then his extension and finally his successor. We paid more and it worked! Ohio wants to be viewed as a serious player in the mid major ranks like a top MVC or A10 school. I could see Ohio going as high as 750,000 on the next hire, borderline power conference money with a massive buyout. They may over pay to justify a larger buyout provision.
OUBobcat13
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Posted: 4/3/2014 7:27 PM
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Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
...most everyone is assuming the bottom is going to fall out of this thing, when it is quite possible (nee probable) that we can hire a better coach for less than we paid Jim Christian? Discuss.


I'd be surprised if we brought in the next coach for less than what we paid Christian. We first raised the bar for JG's salary, then his extension and finally his successor. We paid more and it worked! Ohio wants to be viewed as a serious player in the mid major ranks like a top MVC or A10 school. I could see Ohio going as high as 750,000 on the next hire, borderline power conference money with a massive buyout. They may over pay to justify a larger buyout provision.
I'm not sure they would go that high to start, but I'm not against them having it laying in wait for someone who earns it in the first couple years. We should have had a contract ready and waiting with that kind of money for Groce when we beat Michigan. Two tourney wins in three years would be enough to convince me he deserved an extension before the big boys came calling. I don't know if it would have worked, but it clearly would show we are serious about winning.
Doc Bobcat
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Posted: 4/3/2014 8:13 PM
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For me only 2 things equal armageddon.

Mo leaves.

New coach sucks.

Everything else can be worked out.
Athens
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Posted: 4/3/2014 8:22 PM
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OUBobcat13 wrote:expand_more
...most everyone is assuming the bottom is going to fall out of this thing, when it is quite possible (nee probable) that we can hire a better coach for less than we paid Jim Christian? Discuss.


I'd be surprised if we brought in the next coach for less than what we paid Christian. We first raised the bar for JG's salary, then his extension and finally his successor. We paid more and it worked! Ohio wants to be viewed as a serious player in the mid major ranks like a top MVC or A10 school. I could see Ohio going as high as 750,000 on the next hire, borderline power conference money with a massive buyout. They may over pay to justify a larger buyout provision.


I'm not sure they would go that high to start, but I'm not against them having it laying in wait for someone who earns it in the first couple years. We should have had a contract ready and waiting with that kind of money for Groce when we beat Michigan. Two tourney wins in three years would be enough to convince me he deserved an extension before the big boys came calling. I don't know if it would have worked, but it clearly would show we are serious about winning.

I heard we counter offered Groce with 700,000. You are right we may not start that high. Xavier had Chris Mack at 485,000 and then he goes to the NCAAs and they throw another 400,000 on top. Dayton's coach only made 335,000 last season. I didn't think JC was worth bumping up to 700,000 and trying to retain him. I think some on here would be surprised as to how much we could spend. I found a list of what mid major coaches are making who participated in the tourney and we are well above some of the low major coaches. Some like Xavier did pay over 1 million before only to offer the next coach at a lower salary.

Wichita State 1,794,500
Cincinnati 1,552,205
Virginia Commonwealth 1,530,000
Connecticut 1,250,000
Gonzaga 1,187,536
San Diego State 909,250
St. Joe's 902,651
Xavier 860,807
UMass 843,667
New Mexico 770,000
Tulsa 480,606
UW-Millwaukee 459,151
LA-Lafayette 400,000
New Mexico St 391,471
Dayton 335,152
Albany 318,000
Western Michigan 312,000
Coastal Carolina 275,098
Eastern Kentucky 269,630
Cal Poly 240,813
Texas Southern 200,000
Weber State 196,528
North Carolina Central 195,297
North Dakota State 188,457
Wofford 171,244

www.usatoday.com/sports/college/salaries/ncaab/coach/
 
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 4/3/2014 8:44 PM
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Can we structure the contract so that the pay is decent to start and elevates significantly as it goes--so that others would have to offer high to make our guy move?   Build in an out for us to 'future endeavors' him or her if it is isn't working after a year or two or three.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 4/3/2014 8:49 PM
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Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
...most everyone is assuming the bottom is going to fall out of this thing, when it is quite possible (nee probable) that we can hire a better coach for less than we paid Jim Christian?  Discuss.

I'd be surprised if we brought in the next coach for less than what we paid Christian. We first raised the bar for JG's salary, then his extension and finally his successor. We paid more and it worked! Ohio wants to be viewed as a serious player in the mid major ranks like a top MVC or A10 school. I could see Ohio going as high as 750,000 on the next hire, borderline power conference money with a massive buyout. They may over pay to justify a larger buyout provision.


$750,000?  That might be the funniest thing I've heard since April Fools' Day.  We paid too much for a desperate coach and there's no need to pay any more than the highest priced MAC coach today.  This past guy was a non-entity in Athens which in case you haven't noticed, is a very very small town.  We need to get someone here who engages the community.
Athens
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Posted: 4/3/2014 8:53 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Can we structure the contract so that the pay is decent to start and elevates significantly as it goes--so that others would have to offer high to make our guy move?   Build in an out for us to 'future endeavors' him or her if it is isn't working after a year or two or three.

What they did with JG is ratchet up the pay after making the tournament in 2010. That is what happens with the A10 coaches. The start them at 400-500k and then give them the bigger money once they make the dance. VCU and Wichita only pay what they do because of the coaches making Final Fours.

 
Athens
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Posted: 4/3/2014 8:58 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
...most everyone is assuming the bottom is going to fall out of this thing, when it is quite possible (nee probable) that we can hire a better coach for less than we paid Jim Christian?  Discuss.

I'd be surprised if we brought in the next coach for less than what we paid Christian. We first raised the bar for JG's salary, then his extension and finally his successor. We paid more and it worked! Ohio wants to be viewed as a serious player in the mid major ranks like a top MVC or A10 school. I could see Ohio going as high as 750,000 on the next hire, borderline power conference money with a massive buyout. They may over pay to justify a larger buyout provision.


$750,000?  That might be the funniest thing I've heard since April Fools' Day.  We paid too much for a desperate coach and there's no need to pay any more than the highest priced MAC coach today.  This past guy was a non-entity in Athens which in case you haven't noticed, is a very very small town.  We need to get someone here who engages the community.

I'm not expecting 750,000. I'm saying that is about the highest I could see the administration attempting. My guess 600,000 with a nice pool for assistants. They want a statement hire.
 
catfan28
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:01 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
This past guy was a non-entity in Athens which in case you haven't noticed, is a very very small town.  We need to get someone here who engages the community.


I'm upset by the whole thing...but didn't get that sense from him. I mean, it's not like he was a TOS who quickly became a pariah in this town (or perhaps more appropriately, his wife). By all accounts, Christian was a good family man. I saw him out and about a couple times with his wife and son.
left lane, hammer down
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:09 PM
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Quote:expand_more
 This past guy was a non-entity in Athens which in case you haven't noticed, is a very very small town. We need to get someone here who engages the community.


Most likely due to where Christian was raised. Folks from the east coast usually aren't nearly as engaging with strangers as those from the mid - west. We got spoiled by John Groce because he and his wife felt at home here. Holtmann would fit that same mold. And he has been a head coach. We would, in my opinion, do a lot worse trying to go after someone without that head coach
experience .
Last Edited: 4/3/2014 9:10:51 PM by left lane, hammer down
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:18 PM
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Well, Alan, maybe he was a "non entity" in Athens, but he was maybe the best educated coach that we've ever had.  Not too long ago, my wife and I were dining at a local establishment and JC was there with his wife and a friend.  They were at the next table, and it was impossible not to hear bits and pieces of their conversations.  I was most impressed with the breadth of the topics they discussed -- everything from world affairs to computer software.  Not much was said about sports at all.  I did go up to him at one point and thank him for the nice gesture of wearing the green turtleneck to honor Charlie at the Miami game that had been played about a week before.    
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