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Topic: Some thoughts...
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JSF
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:55 PM
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Jim Christian for Flomo-genized is a good trade.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:56 PM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
LongDistancebobcat seems to have some serious insight into the life of JC...


That is true.  I'm a good friend of his who tries to help you guys out with information when I can.  I spoke with him and he told me he is not taking any recruits with him. I can also tell you that the whole BC thing came out of left field.  He honestly thought  OU  would be his last job.  He thinks very, very highly of Schaus and McDavis.  I am very disappointed at the level of vitriol leveled at a coach who gave his best to a school and when presented with an opportunity to help his family and his career, took it.  The time table, which many of you do not like, was all BC's.  As he said to your administration, name one coach in the MAC who wouldn't jump at this opportunity.


Keith Dambrot.

Duquesne is not in the ACC.

 
Ohio69
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:57 PM
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Flomo-genized wrote:expand_more
On the other hand, count me firmly in the camp that, at some level, wanted Christian to leave after the events of the last few days.  This move reeks of dishonesty and a lack of integrity.  Christian was one to two years away from getting fired at TCU.  We were his lifeline.  To turn around and screw us over like this after all the talk about program fit and wanting to build something special here is, in my mind, unconscionable.  He owed us either (1) a deep NCAA tournament run, or (2) four to five years of winning basketball, minimum, before jumping to his next job.


Well I love the passion.  I do.  But, I don't think Jim Christian owes anybody anything.  Maybe the players he recruited.  But, everyone knows the drill.  There are no guarantees.  Jim Christian was offered a great job and took it.  It sucks.  I'm dissappointed.  But, I can't blame the man.  That's how things work.  Even the biggest programs in the country with great resources lose coaches --  to the NBA or other big programs.

Anyway lets all vent and get it out and then get revved up to support the next coach.
SBH
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:58 PM
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I'm telling you that Dambrot is not going anywhere and would not jump at the BC job.  That was the question.  he wants to stay in Akron.  And I am anything but a Dambrot fan.


Bhugh24
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:00 PM
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Flomo's post is terrible.

JC was/is a good coach. Recruited well, teams played well, won a regular MAC title.

It was a good hire at the time - sound reasoning and was shaping up well.

How does one account for the BC opening and recruiting him? You can't account for that.

And JC has to take that job. He would be stupid not to take it for the many reasons that others have pointed out.

People that say otherwise (Flomo, Graham, SBH - are you planning another billboard campaign?) are delusional.
SBH
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:01 PM
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Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=LongDistancebobcat][QUOTE=A-townBound]LongDistancebobcat seems to have some serious insight into the life of JC...


That is true.  I'm a good friend of his who tries to help you guys out with information when I can.  I spoke with him and he told me he is not taking any recruits with him. I can also tell you that the whole BC thing came out of left field.  He honestly thought  OU  would be his last job.  He thinks very, very highly of Schaus and McDavis.  I am very disappointed at the level of vitriol leveled at a coach who gave his best to a school and when presented with an opportunity to help his family and his career, took it.  The time table, which many of you do not like, was all BC's.  As he said to your administration, name one coach in the MAC who wouldn't jump at this opportunity.


That's a cop-out.  Have some balls and tell the school, "I'm not going to hang my current employer and players out to dry, so do this quickly, quietly and cleanly.  If you don't, then you must not be all that interested in me."   He apparently didn't have the integrity to do that.




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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:06 PM
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I think a lot of the vitriol is that his leaving did indeed come out of "left-field".

Didn't we all know in all honesty that IF Groce, as a young-energetic hire did indeed successfully elevate Bobcat-Basketball he was writing his ticket out of Athens. So with each step taken in improving the program he became one step closer to getting that offer he couldn't refuse.

With Christian and I really don't mean this as a slap in the face to him, he had not in the two years that he was here, earn and/or become an IT coach. That the BC offer clearly I believe came at him out of the blue, there was no way to really prepare himself, his OHIO players, the AD, Admins. or fan base for his departure. I certainly can't begrudge him the opportunity and think he would have been a fool not to accept it, as much as it pains me to see the program now left in full-out scramble mode.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:07 PM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=LongDistancebobcat][QUOTE=A-townBound]LongDistancebobcat seems to have some serious insight into the life of JC...


That is true.  I'm a good friend of his who tries to help you guys out with information when I can.  I spoke with him and he told me he is not taking any recruits with him. I can also tell you that the whole BC thing came out of left field.  He honestly thought  OU  would be his last job.  He thinks very, very highly of Schaus and McDavis.  I am very disappointed at the level of vitriol leveled at a coach who gave his best to a school and when presented with an opportunity to help his family and his career, took it.  The time table, which many of you do not like, was all BC's.  As he said to your administration, name one coach in the MAC who wouldn't jump at this opportunity.


That's a cop-out.  Have some balls and tell the school, "I'm not going to hang my current employer and players out to dry, so do this quickly, quietly and cleanly.  If you don't, then you must not be all that interested in me."   He apparently didn't have the integrity to do that.


SBH - how do you know he didn't? And what crazy time-frame are we talking about? 3 days? That's hanging people out to dry? 

What do you know about the process that let's you comment on this?

How would it be different? He does a phone interview on the weekend? Then flys to Boston for a day or two? All with in 6 days? That is drawing out the process.
SBH
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:12 PM
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Yes, six days at this time of year is a long time.  Talks to a recruit, does NOT tell his current players anything.  He handled this about as poorly as you can.

perimeterpost
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:20 PM
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LongDistancebobcat wrote:expand_more
LongDistancebobcat seems to have some serious insight into the life of JC...


That is true. I'm a good friend of his who tries to help you guys out with information when I can. I spoke with him and he told me he is not taking any recruits with him. I can also tell you that the whole BC thing came out of left field. He honestly thought OU would be his last job. He thinks very, very highly of Schaus and McDavis. I am very disappointed at the level of vitriol leveled at a coach who gave his best to a school and when presented with an opportunity to help his family and his career, took it. The time table, which many of you do not like, was all BC's. As he said to your administration, name one coach in the MAC who wouldn't jump at this opportunity.
Let's be honest, BC is a terrible job at a terrible program that happens to have a license to print money because it is in an awesome conference. Nothing about JC's skill set says he's up for the heavy lifting that is needed to turn around a program like BC, in a conference like the ACC. I'm not mad that he's leaving, I'm mad that he's taking the first train out of Dodge. Other jobs, better ones even, were sure to follow if he continued building on what he had here at Ohio. If this was 2 years from now it would be a different story.

But if things are so great here then why jump on the first, obviously bad job? Because of the $$$$, right? But every other coach in the MAC would do it so its ok. Every other coach in the MAC isn't already at a program that has better facilities, bigger crowds and a more supportive administration than BC does. Should have been honest from the beginning and we wouldn't be disappointed- NONE of it matters but the $$$$.

and let's not forget JC was still the head coach at Ohio when our previously locked down 4 star recruit suddenly wanted nothing to with Ohio after a brief conversation with JC. Nice sales job, thanks for nothing.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:20 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
I get the 'integrity' argument about 'he signed a five year contract.'  But it's also fair to state that in sports (pro, college) these contracts are somewhat 'signed to be broken.'  (Roughly comparable--Kareem forced Bucks to trade him (right?), was it Elway who made clear that he wouldn't play for Baltimore ?...LeBron stomps on CLE.  Not saying that these acts are proper..just that we shouldn't be surprised.)

Monroe, you are right, but I'll take it one step further -- contracts are not somewhat 'signed to be broken'. They are usually more often broken than not -- from either side. That's why early termination clauses are built-in. 

 
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:40 PM
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Do we get to recruit guards again? Yes? I'm okay with this development.

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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:53 PM
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OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
I get the 'integrity' argument about 'he signed a five year contract.'  But it's also fair to state that in sports (pro, college) these contracts are somewhat 'signed to be broken.'  (Roughly comparable--Kareem forced Bucks to trade him (right?), was it Elway who made clear that he wouldn't play for Baltimore ?...LeBron stomps on CLE.  Not saying that these acts are proper..just that we shouldn't be surprised.)

Monroe, you are right, but I'll take it one step further -- contracts are not somewhat 'signed to be broken'. They are usually more often broken than not -- from either side. That's why early termination clauses are built-in. 

 


This is why we need to make sure we use correct language.  Neither John Groce nor Jim Christian "broke" their contracts.  In each case, the contract allowed them to leave if they paid a fee specified in the contract.  In other words they left under conditions provided in their contracts, they did not break them. 
Athens
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:01 PM
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BobcatSports wrote:expand_more
I
With Christian and I really don't mean this as a slap in the face to him, he had not in the two years that he was here, earn and/or become an IT coach. That the BC offer clearly I believe came at him out of the blue, there was no way to really prepare himself, his OHIO players, the AD, Admins. or fan base for his departure. I certainly can't begrudge him the opportunity and think he would have been a fool not to accept it, as much as it pains me to see the program now left in full-out scramble mode.

JG parlayed a Sweet 16 at Ohio into a gig at a first division Big Ten job at Illinois. It made sense with his stock high and formerly coaching in the Big Ten as an assistant. JC parlayed two good seasons at Ohio and 12 years of head coaching experience as a D1 coach to get himself a payday at a second division ACC school. BC is a second tier ACC job and no different than an average Big East or Atlantic 10 job. The difference is the BC job is a rare position where they can afford to triple JC's salary and where a coach of JC's talents could benefit their program. A Duke or Syracuse is not going to bother with JC. A LaSalle or Seton Hall would love to have JC but won't pay to get him out of Ohio. JC understands this market position and that is why he couldn't turn it down. Its the best job he's ever going to get in his career.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:43 PM
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brucecuth wrote:expand_more
I get the 'integrity' argument about 'he signed a five year contract.'  But it's also fair to state that in sports (pro, college) these contracts are somewhat 'signed to be broken.'  (Roughly comparable--Kareem forced Bucks to trade him (right?), was it Elway who made clear that he wouldn't play for Baltimore ?...LeBron stomps on CLE.  Not saying that these acts are proper..just that we shouldn't be surprised.)

Monroe, you are right, but I'll take it one step further -- contracts are not somewhat 'signed to be broken'. They are usually more often broken than not -- from either side. That's why early termination clauses are built-in. 

 


This is why we need to make sure we use correct language.  Neither John Groce nor Jim Christian "broke" their contracts.  In each case, the contract allowed them to leave if they paid a fee specified in the contract.  In other words they left under conditions provided in their contracts, they did not break them. 


You are right. And said it better than I did.

Keep in mind everyone that even in the best-case scenario, we will be doing this all again in 3-4 years.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:51 PM
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Gallia Cat wrote:expand_more
Ohio University will move on. The Ohio job is a great job and you better believe there will be some great candidates. There are some jobs in which winning will always be a challenge and that makes it a challenge to attracted a highly qualified candidate. You need only look to the rafters at the Convo to see a Winning tradition that goes back 50-60 years so that will not be a challenge. There are already top level assistants asking their head coaches to make a call to OU to put in a good word with the AD. Does anyone remember what Thad Matta told John Groce about the Ohio University job? I don't know the exact quote but when Groce ask Matta if he should go after the Ohio University job Matta ask him why he wouldn't go after it. He said Ohio University is a great job with a great facility and most importantly, that he can be successful there.

JC was brought it from TCU with a 450k base salary (not including Media income or bonuses) and increased travel budget with uses of a charter plane after Groce won 29 with the idea of sustaining success. JC then wins 24 and 25 wins respectively his first 2 years. That to me is a continuation of a high level and in any conference a step up from the MAC puts you into the NCAAs with those kind of win totals. It validated the move to bring a hire profile coach to Athens and this time the program has a chance to go even bigger with the next hire. Take the 500,000 in buyout money from Boston College and you can raise the base salary to 600,000 for the next 3 years with 50,000 left over. The administration sees the basketball program as the crown jewel of the athletic department and no way do I see them going backwards to an average MAC hire. Personally I'd like to see the next coach bring in a specialized defensive philosophy like Tony Bennett that can shut the MAC down and is built for a sweet 16 run physically. The goal should be to become the name brand school of the MAC and run through regular seasons undefeated. Things have changed vastly over the last 10 years. The Ohio job today is no different at this point than the better jobs in the A10. Its a program that buys home games and has averaged over 23 wins a season for the past 5 years. If there was ever a time to dream big this is the time.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 4/3/2014 7:01 PM
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OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
I get the 'integrity' argument about 'he signed a five year contract.'  But it's also fair to state that in sports (pro, college) these contracts are somewhat 'signed to be broken.'  (Roughly comparable--Kareem forced Bucks to trade him (right?), was it Elway who made clear that he wouldn't play for Baltimore ?...LeBron stomps on CLE.  Not saying that these acts are proper..just that we shouldn't be surprised.)

Monroe, you are right, but I'll take it one step further -- contracts are not somewhat 'signed to be broken'. They are usually more often broken than not -- from either side. That's why early termination clauses are built-in. 

 


This is why we need to make sure we use correct language.  Neither John Groce nor Jim Christian "broke" their contracts.  In each case, the contract allowed them to leave if they paid a fee specified in the contract.  In other words they left under conditions provided in their contracts, they did not break them. 


You are right. And said it better than I did.

Keep in mind everyone that even in the best-case scenario, we will be doing this all again in 3-4 years.


i'll go a step farther and say that we WANT to be doing this again in 3-4 years. That's basketball at this level. He'll, it's basketball a level up from us, too. Look at Xavier--between Prosser, Matta, Miller, and Mack the longest tenure was 5 years, and I assure you that if Mack makes it to 6 Xavier fans aren't going to be happy. 
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Posted: 4/3/2014 7:44 PM
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The last two hires were great moves, we expanded our presence in that the last two coaches went to the Big 10 and the ACC. However, now is the time for continuity. I would suggest an alum whose heart is with the program. Dustin Ford appeals to me because he has been a head coach at the high school level, in addition to being a Division I college assistant. Having been an assistant coach and a head coach at the high school level myself, there's nothing like being the captain of the ship however small, rather than just watching the action an arms length away.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:49 PM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
Yes, six days at this time of year is a long time. Talks to a recruit, does NOT tell his current players anything. He handled this about as poorly as you can.
The best part of this post is how it was so wrong - JC kept his players informed the whole time.

It always nice to be reminded the type person SBH is.
SBH
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:03 PM
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Program insider told me yesterday morning that, "players are totally in the dark."  You can believe whomever you want to believe.


Bhugh24
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:08 PM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
Program insider told me yesterday morning that, "players are totally in the dark." You can believe whomever you want to believe.
Hahahaha!
D.A.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:13 PM
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One though: we lost at least two players when TOS left for Bryant.  Then we hired a coach.

How did that turn out?

 
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 4/3/2014 10:57 PM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
Program insider told me yesterday morning that, "players are totally in the dark."  You can believe whomever you want to believe.



Nice generic, can't be denied..can't be reasoned with...denial.

I can't believe the heat on this board to have a new coach on board, preserving player attachment to OHIO, within 36 hours.



 
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Posted: 4/3/2014 11:56 PM
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I get the 'integrity' argument about 'he signed a five year contract.'  But it's also fair to state that in sports (pro, college) these contracts are somewhat 'signed to be broken.'  (Roughly comparable--Kareem forced Bucks to trade him (right?), was it Elway who made clear that he wouldn't play for Baltimore ?...LeBron stomps on CLE.  Not saying that these acts are proper..just that we shouldn't be surprised.)

Monroe, you are right, but I'll take it one step further -- contracts are not somewhat 'signed to be broken'. They are usually more often broken than not -- from either side. That's why early termination clauses are built-in. 

 


This is why we need to make sure we use correct language.  Neither John Groce nor Jim Christian "broke" their contracts.  In each case, the contract allowed them to leave if they paid a fee specified in the contract.  In other words they left under conditions provided in their contracts, they did not break them. 


You are right. And said it better than I did.

Keep in mind everyone that even in the best-case scenario, we will be doing this all again in 3-4 years.


i'll go a step farther and say that we WANT to be doing this again in 3-4 years. That's basketball at this level. He'll, it's basketball a level up from us, too. Look at Xavier--between Prosser, Matta, Miller, and Mack the longest tenure was 5 years, and I assure you that if Mack makes it to 6 Xavier fans aren't going to be happy. 

Actually Xavier is kind of in the same boat we are. They want long term and felt jaded when Miller left for Arizona. They want Mack to be there for life as long as he wins. And dont forget before Prosser was Pete Gillen who started the winning tradition. He was there for 9-10 seasons. 

 
Casper71
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Posted: 4/3/2014 11:59 PM
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I think Bob Stack started them on their way.  Then again, I'm probably one of the few on this board old enough to remember him and maybe my memory isn't that good anymore!
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