Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: According to reports OHIO is refusing to release Owens!
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TheGreatLarryMoe
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Posted: 4/6/2014 5:47 PM
crackerbaby00 wrote:expand_more
I don't see anything to gain by trying to get him to stay.  If he wants to leave, then they should just left him go and don't let the door hit him on the way out.  We need players who are bought in and actually want to be here.  Now that it is known throughout the universe that he wants out of his LOI, what impact has that had on the current players' relationship/potential relationshipwith him? Even if Phillips does convince him to stay.  The damage has already been done. We don't need someone coming in and disrupting the locker room who has already once been quoted saying he doesn't want to come here. 


Also, how is there no upside to a 4* big man with a 7+ foot wingspan being on campus?  If he buys into the new coaching staff/philosophy, it can turn out just like any other recruitment.  A similar thing happened when Gary Williams left UMD.  Nick Faust was 1 of 3 commitments that year.  After Turgeon took over, all three asked for their releases.  Turgeon was able to sit down with all three and convinced Faust to stay.  The other two left for other schools, but no one has since questioned Faust's commitment to the program.


I guess it depends on why he asked out of is LOI in the first place.  If it is just a knee-jerk reaction to JC leaving, Phillips I think has a good chance of convincing him to stay and all will be peaches. Just as long as this doesn't affect his relationships with his future teammates.  If he doesn't get along with them, then he could be the next Gary Trent and it wouldn't matter.  I guess in the end I just want them to do what is best for the team and TO and not try to force things if he doesn't want to stay.  I'm not saying that is the case, and I certainly hope its not. It would be great to have him in Athens, and I welcome him with open arms, but if he decides for whatever reason that this is not in his best interest, then good luck to him.  
mf279801
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Posted: 4/6/2014 5:51 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
It's Schaus, not Phillips doing this.


Even more disgusting.  New coach hiding behind A.D.....  Uhg.....

Ya'll know from my posts over time my complete utter disgust for a system where this is allowed to happen.  Old white guys making millions holding young kids hostage.  Disgusting.



I haven't read the Bleacher Report "news article" but I'm a little curious how the basketball coach is responsible for this, or hiding behind the AD, a mere 12-15 hours after his hiring was ANNOUNCED. He's probably not on campus yet (presser is scheduled for Tuesday) and likely was asleep for some portion of those 12-15 hours. So what this "scandalous" activity comes down to is that OHIO hasn't acted on Owens's request yet. Not that they've rejected it, just that they haven't moved as quickly as his AAU coach would have liked (if I were being cynical, I'd posit that the AAU coach's "present" from a booster at University X is contingent on Owens actually arriving on their campus)

 
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 4/6/2014 5:59 PM
I just can't believe all the things people say.

Controversy.

Am I Starbucks or Donkey?

Is Ndour going to Iowa or stay?

Controversy.

Do I believe in Twitter?

Do I Believe in me?

Controversy.

I can't understand, Letter of Intent technicalities

Controversy.

Was it good for OU

Was JC what you wanted him to be?

Controversy.



Controversy.



bornacatfan
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Posted: 4/6/2014 7:06 PM
It is unfoitunate that this AAU coach is orchestrating this. I have been on the edge of those murky waters for the better part of 2 decades. FOrtunately, I have been able to spend time around really good programs that want the best for thier kids and do it in a gentlemanly way with no kickbacks and no slimy characteristics. I have been in places where I was listening to this type of coach talking about his kids and felt so slimy I grabbed my GF and left my beer on table and thanked them for inviting me.

Unlike Alan and 69 I do not see old white men holding strings and enslaving athletes. THe athlete signed a letter of intent to play for a University.....not a coach.... and when he signed it that was explained very clearly (have either of you ever seen an LOI?) in big bold print. That you would support this is part of the problem. Because you 2 (who incedentally are actually old white men) are so quick to defend the student athletes, who are not there for the school but are there to play basketball for a coach, those same athletes have reinfrorcement that they are indeed there for the basketball and fail to understand that they are not bound for the league and need to pick a school based on the program of study they intend to pursue and finish their education at the institution they choose. Of course, I know it is not that simple but until we quit crying about how unfair it is to the athletes when a coach transfers and make them commit to the academic side then those of us who are actually counseling kids to choose a school and a program of study that will serve them through out the rest of their life are going to be at a disadvantage.

I think it is wise and prudent for the athlete who should have researched the school and should have been counseled on the academic side of things to listen to the new coach before being released. If he came to me I would certainly tell him that .....and I would tell his Pops and the AAU coach to at least give the guy a chance. I suspect, as others have pointed out, that the AAU coach is looking for some personal glory (or more) in delivering this guy to another program. I would be willing to bet there has not been one word out of his mouth regarding the academic side of any of the Universities being considered. I fully support our AD saying "son, we have an excellent University, you seemed to like what you saw and now that we have a coach we would like you take a look before you leap".....that the press has the same knee jerk reaction tells me they are fully behind putting the Athlete ....way before the Student.....

Unless Tariq is a frist round lottery choice he has more to gain by getting an OHIO degree than he does running off to the program that will give his pops and the AAU coach perks and props for reeling in a big fish.
Ohio69
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Posted: 4/6/2014 7:19 PM
Alright, alright.....

So I was a wee bit over the top with my "disgusting!" comments.  Ya'll know I get fired up about this.  And, I've posted before that I think there's disparate impact on how basketball and football athletes are handled compared to other sports. 

Coach Phillips will get his 10 minute meeting with Tariq and then we'll release him.....

Anyway, I'm moving on to fully supporting Coach Phillips mode.

Good luck Tariq.  You woulda had a lot of fun up here at Ohio.
Tim Ford
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Posted: 4/6/2014 7:20 PM
Borna....100000000% with you on this. I can remember hearing the stories of AAU coaches asking for spots on staffs as a delivery fee, and worse. 

I worked a pretty good camp one year. Michael Beasley was a rising freshman, and everybody knew he was going to be an amazing get as a recruit. One of the reasons I decided i wouldn't want to go into coaching was because of a conversation I sat through where some of the "camp counselors" talked about how made they could be if they could get him on their AAU squad then deliver him to a college. Made me value what we had at Ohio, a bunch of guys that followed the rules worked hard and sold a school to kids and their parents. 

As long as we are handing out advice to Tariq, leave that AAU guy in the dust and work with your dad on what is best for Your future. 
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 4/6/2014 7:50 PM
Gotta agree with borna and Tim Ford on this. 

Ohio69, as we've discussed before, the disparate treatment of football and basketball has to do with the enormous revenues raised in those sports.  It's not a race thing. 

I can understand possibly changing the rules to allow transfers with no sitting out if a coach leaves...maybe, I'm not saying I support that, just saying it would be OK to consider it.  But in no way would I support allowing complete freedom of transferring with no sitting out.  It would be the Wild West out there.  Coaches constantly on the prowl trying to poach players from other teams.  It would be an absolute nightmare, and I dare say ultimately not in the best interests of the young athletes. 

Players are allowed to move around at will on the JUCO level.  It's close to chaos. Coaches often can't be sure who will be returning to the roster after Christmas break, and especially after summer. 
OhioBobcat
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Posted: 4/6/2014 7:56 PM
This pisses me off at Ohio. If he doesn't want to come then let him go. I would be saying the same if it was a kid here now who wanted to transfer and we said no. In the "business" of college athletics - because that's what it has become - where coaches and AD's move on to other places all the time after they have signed CONTRACTS with their current schools, how are we going to hold this over a kid who signed with a school whose coach has left?! Stupid! I want kids who WANT to be here, not ones who are told the MUST be here. Let the kid make his decision as circumstances have changed. Yes an NLI is an obligation to the school they sign with but we all know the coach who they sign with is a huge part of it too, let's not kid ourselves. I love how signed contracts mean nothing when coaches and AD's want to make a change fir themselves but when it comes to a kid whose circumstances have changed like this with a coaching change, we say no?? 
bornacatfan
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Posted: 4/6/2014 8:14 PM
OhioBobcat wrote:expand_more
This pisses me off at Ohio. If he doesn't want to come then let him go. I would be saying the same if it was a kid here now who wanted to transfer and we said no. In the "business" of college athletics - because that's what it has become - where coaches and AD's move on to other places all the time after they have signed CONTRACTS with their current schools, how are we going to hold this over a kid who signed with a school whose coach has left?! Stupid! I want kids who WANT to be here, not ones who are told the MUST be here. Let the kid make his decision as circumstances have changed. Yes an NLI is an obligation to the school they sign with but we all know the coach who they sign with is a huge part of it too, let's not kid ourselves. I love how signed contracts mean nothing when coaches and AD's want to make a change fir themselves but when it comes to a kid whose circumstances have changed like this with a coaching change, we say no?? 

more knee jerk. 

He is being asked to take a minute and look at his situation. Does he really not want to be here or is his coach just orchestrating the decommit. Have you some first hand info that he does not want to be here? 

Have you been in the middle of any of these or are you actually reading the parameters of what is going on before spouting an opinion? 

No one is going to be holding anything over him when all is said and done. Shaus is a smart guy who grew up in the game. His pops coached at Purdue when he was a HS student. He sees many sides of this game you can not (or will not try to ) even fathom. Trust in him to represent Ohio well. 

By ignoring the buyouts in the contract that mean something and not trying to understand what the LOI represents you feed the beast. You owe it to yourself to get informed in order to be a better fan and not join the sheep fed crap by the talking heads. 

 
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 4/6/2014 8:19 PM
OhioBobcat wrote:expand_more
This pisses me off at Ohio. If he doesn't want to come then let him go. I would be saying the same if it was a kid here now who wanted to transfer and we said no. In the "business" of college athletics - because that's what it has become - where coaches and AD's move on to other places all the time after they have signed CONTRACTS with their current schools, how are we going to hold this over a kid who signed with a school whose coach has left?! Stupid! I want kids who WANT to be here, not ones who are told the MUST be here. Let the kid make his decision as circumstances have changed. Yes an NLI is an obligation to the school they sign with but we all know the coach who they sign with is a huge part of it too, let's not kid ourselves. I love how signed contracts mean nothing when coaches and AD's want to make a change fir themselves but when it comes to a kid whose circumstances have changed like this with a coaching change, we say no?? 

I think this point has been made, but no one is saying no. They are just saying to wait until you at least talk to the new coach. I doubt he changes his mind but it doesn't seem unreasonable to ask him to wait a few days. It's not like it's going to cause him to miss out on some other school. And L.C. made a good point that actually a letter of intent is binding for the school at least for a year. The school can't get out of it for any reason.

 
perimeterpost
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Posted: 4/6/2014 8:43 PM
wow, there's some major silliness being expressed here. Thank you borna for being the grown up.
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 4/6/2014 8:55 PM
 


Maybe now everyone can take a step back from the ledge. 

 
Pataskala
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Posted: 4/6/2014 9:02 PM
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:expand_more
 


Maybe now everyone can take a step back from the ledge. 

 


And please let Phillips come back inside.
giacomo
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Posted: 4/6/2014 9:05 PM
Gallia, while you are to be commended for your work ethic in your educational pursuits, it has nothing to do with the rights of a student athlete. There is lot of hard work and sacrifice put in to get a scholarship. If the coach can leave, the recruit should be able to leave. It's not a good situation to be in when you're not the player the coach recruited.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 4/6/2014 9:28 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
. It's not a good situation to be in when you're not the player the coach recruited.


YOu think that is true in most situations? Kind of a broad statement. I liked what Groce said at Illinois when a reporter asked him about Weber's recruits this year. He said "they're still here , they are all MY guys". That seems to be a recurring theme amongst many coaches stepping into a new position. Rome. Mike Allen , KVK and Orr had no problem picking up with a new coach and continue to touch base as did the classes behind them that were TOS recruits. I would like to see the numbers on the guys who make the transition vs the guys that do not .... I'm betting on more guys adapting and doing well under the new guy than those who get relegated to pine purgatory in the 351 schools x 13 schollys.



 
Last Edited: 4/6/2014 9:34:00 PM by bornacatfan
Gallia Cat
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Posted: 4/6/2014 9:31 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
Gallia, while you are to be commended for your work ethic in your educational pursuits, it has nothing to do with the rights of a student athlete. There is lot of hard work and sacrifice put in to get a scholarship. If the coach can leave, the recruit should be able to leave. It's not a good situation to be in when you're not the player the coach recruited.
Is it really to much to ask him to meet the coach before he is released? He signed a letter of intent to attend Ohio University not Jim Christian University. The least he can do is meet the coach and then make his decision. Then at least he will make an informed decision as to what he is saying no to. Consider his first life's lesson in what will hopefully be a long fruitful life. If after meeting the coach he still wants to leave then thanks for meeting in person and I hope you have a great career. There will be no hard feelings!
Last Edited: 4/6/2014 9:32:50 PM by Gallia Cat
OhioBobcat
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Posted: 4/8/2014 12:13 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
He is being asked to take a minute and look at his situation. Does he really not want to be here or is his coach just orchestrating the decommit. Have you some first hand info that he does not want to be here? Have you been in the middle of any of these or are you actually reading the parameters of what is going on before spouting an opinion? No one is going to be holding anything over him when all is said and done. Shaus is a smart guy who grew up in the game. His pops coached at Purdue when he was a HS student. He sees many sides of this game you can not (or will not try to ) even fathom. Trust in him to represent Ohio well. By ignoring the buyouts in the contract that mean something and not trying to understand what the LOI represents you feed the beast. You owe it to yourself to get informed in order to be a better fan and not join the sheep fed crap by the talking heads.

I have as much inside info concerning Owens as you do on the matter - which is none. But I am confident Owens is capable of making up HIS own mind when it comes to whether or not he wants to be here based on circumstances that have changed on Ohio's end (i.e. the coaching change) and not his, after the fact of a NLI. It's humorous you feel he needs to be held by the hand to "take a minute and look at the situation here," as if he can't comprehend what the coaching change consisted of and what might follow. Like you, I do not know Owens or any of our recruits personally, but unlike you, I have worked in a D-I collegiate athletic department and dealt firsthand with grant-in-aid and NCAA Clearinghouse issues and would be happy to explain some of the details surrounding a binding NLI (which you obviously are not aware of). I agree with many of the rules and regulations that apply and are associated with an NLI but I, and others who are educated on the issue (unlike yourself), also disagree with some as well. But that doesn't make any of us rule makers. My point to all of this is, based on the circumstances now, it would be wonderful to see Owens determine his own future at this point. If he wants to be here, great. If not, let's open up a spot for someone who does. So I echo your own advice and suggest you get informed of the steps and processes. So save your patronizing, and when you step down off your soapbox, remember to wipe the hole you've been talking out of it. 
Last Edited: 4/8/2014 12:18:32 AM by OhioBobcat
OU_Country
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Posted: 4/8/2014 12:26 AM
/\  Wow, go a little overboard much?   /\
RSBobcat
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Posted: 4/8/2014 12:26 AM
OhioBobcat wrote:expand_more
He is being asked to take a minute and look at his situation. Does he really not want to be here or is his coach just orchestrating the decommit. Have you some first hand info that he does not want to be here? Have you been in the middle of any of these or are you actually reading the parameters of what is going on before spouting an opinion? No one is going to be holding anything over him when all is said and done. Shaus is a smart guy who grew up in the game. His pops coached at Purdue when he was a HS student. He sees many sides of this game you can not (or will not try to ) even fathom. Trust in him to represent Ohio well. By ignoring the buyouts in the contract that mean something and not trying to understand what the LOI represents you feed the beast. You owe it to yourself to get informed in order to be a better fan and not join the sheep fed crap by the talking heads.

I have as much inside info concerning Owens as you do on the matter - which is none. But I am confident Owens is capable of making up HIS own mind when it comes to whether or not he wants to be here based on circumstances that have changed on Ohio's end (i.e. the coaching change) and not his, after the fact of a NLI. It's humorous you feel he needs to be held by the hand to "take a minute and look at the situation here," as if he can't comprehend what the coaching change consisted of and what might follow. Like you, I do not know Owens or any of our recruits personally, but unlike you, I have worked in a D-I collegiate athletic department and dealt firsthand with grant-in-aid and NCAA Clearinghouse issues and would be happy to explain some of the details surrounding a binding NLI (which you obviously are not aware of). I agree with many of the rules and regulations that apply and are associated with an NLI but I, and others who are educated on the issue (unlike yourself), also disagree with some as well. But that doesn't make any of us rule makers. My point to all of this is, based on the circumstances now, it would be wonderful to see Owens determine his own future at this point. If he wants to be here, great. If not, let's open up a spot for someone who does. So I echo your own advice and suggest you get informed of the steps and processes. So save your patronizing, and when you step down off your soapbox, remember to wipe the hole you've been talking out of it. 

So in your supposed "expert" opinion - what is the purpose of a LOI? For the future student athlete, or the educational institution?

 
OhioStunter
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Posted: 4/8/2014 12:40 AM
OhioBobcat wrote:expand_more
So save your patronizing, and when you step down off your soapbox, remember to wipe the hole you've been talking out of it. 


The pot and kettle on line 1.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 4/8/2014 1:40 AM
OhioBobcat wrote:expand_more
He is being asked to take a minute and look at his situation. Does he really not want to be here or is his coach just orchestrating the decommit. Have you some first hand info that he does not want to be here? Have you been in the middle of any of these or are you actually reading the parameters of what is going on before spouting an opinion? No one is going to be holding anything over him when all is said and done. Shaus is a smart guy who grew up in the game. His pops coached at Purdue when he was a HS student. He sees many sides of this game you can not (or will not try to ) even fathom. Trust in him to represent Ohio well. By ignoring the buyouts in the contract that mean something and not trying to understand what the LOI represents you feed the beast. You owe it to yourself to get informed in order to be a better fan and not join the sheep fed crap by the talking heads.


I have as much inside info concerning Owens as you do on the matter - which is none. But I am confident Owens is capable of making up HIS own mind when it comes to whether or not he wants to be here based on circumstances that have changed on Ohio's end (i.e. the coaching change) and not his, after the fact of a NLI. It's humorous you feel he needs to be held by the hand to "take a minute and look at the situation here," as if he can't comprehend what the coaching change consisted of and what might follow. Like you, I do not know Owens or any of our recruits personally, but unlike you, I have worked in a D-I collegiate athletic department and dealt firsthand with grant-in-aid and NCAA Clearinghouse issues and would be happy to explain some of the details surrounding a binding NLI (which you obviously are not aware of). I agree with many of the rules and regulations that apply and are associated with an NLI but I, and others who are educated on the issue (unlike yourself), also disagree with some as well. But that doesn't make any of us rule makers. My point to all of this is, based on the circumstances now, it would be wonderful to see Owens determine his own future at this point. If he wants to be here, great. If not, let's open up a spot for someone who does. So I echo your own advice and suggest you get informed of the steps and processes. So save your patronizing, and when you step down off your soapbox, remember to wipe the hole you've been talking out of it.
wow. what a weird, weird, weird, weird rant. Where was you moral outrage when the exact same thing happened to Caris Levert two years ago? Remember him? Poor kid, Jim Schaus ruined that young man's life, he's probably flippin burgers at White Castle now or something.

So let's get some things strait here. Owens' AAU coach has been quoted as saying that Owens will ask to be released from his LOI. He said WILL ASK. Has Owens begun the proper process? Do you know? You're the expert, you tell me. Since you worked in D1 collegiate athletic department before tell me this- is it standard procedure to IMMEDIATELY cancel an incoming students LOI if somebody who is not his legal guardian mentions something to somebody on Twitter?

And is it in your grand experience that educational institutions process paperwork with a 'ZOMG its on fire, hurry!' mentality or can these sorts of things take a day or two. It's literally been 3 business days since the RUMOR ws first mentioned. How could he be released any faster? Stop acting like some great injustice has been done when absolutely nothing of the sort has occurred. Btw, Caris Levert was released from his LOI 15 days after Jim Christian was hired and there wasn't a peep about the timeframe from Levert or his coach or anyone else for that matter. By comparison, Saul Phillips was hired 2 days ago. RELAX.
Last Edited: 4/8/2014 1:48:26 AM by perimeterpost
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 4/8/2014 1:49 AM
What is it with people on this board 

1) failing to respond to points made on this board, failing to meet the argument and/or 

2)  being unable to respond with vigorous argument against what someone else posts without getting personal, without going to the heavy insult card?

Try using the 'no response/ignore' approach if you can't post without insulting.

These insulting posts don't rebut.  Instead they speak poorly of the person who posts them.


[here come the flamers to accuse me, to distort my approach]
OUBobcat13
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Posted: 4/8/2014 8:22 AM
Talking in general terms, in the professional world, when one wants to leave an employer a courtesy two weeks notice is given to allow the employer a couple things. One, find and train sometime to take your position. Secondly, an opportunity to counter offer. Why should this be any different? Maybe we should put a 14 day waiting period on all situations in which a player asked to be released. If this is really about making them the best student-athlete, this is the closest to putting them in an job-like situation.

If after meeting with him, we still do not grant his release, I would have problems. As of now, I think it is the PROPER thing to do to make him wait.
Casper71
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Posted: 4/8/2014 9:50 AM
Becasue these are 18 year old college kids who quit jobs at MCDs every day without giving notice.  They are NOT 50 year olds or whatever who have a company depending on them.  They are not in the "professional" world yet.
TheBikeman
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Posted: 4/8/2014 10:06 AM
Nobody gives or gets two week notices anymore, you're just gone.
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