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Topic: Brandon Hunter
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Bobcatzblitz
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Posted: 8/21/2014 7:49 PM
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Well time to start sending out the appropriate Emails! Brandon Hunter is deserving in my opinion.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/23/2014 2:34 AM
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Pete Chouteau wrote:expand_more
Hall of Fame, Yes.

Jersey retirement, No.
Agreed! The HOF has guidelines and set bylaws, those do NOT exist for the rafters.
Last Edited: 8/23/2014 2:35:44 AM by BillyTheCat
Bobcatzblitz
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Posted: 8/23/2014 3:57 PM
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Just emailed Jim Schaus ! Spoke with some other longtime Bobcat Club members and they agree so we sent several Emails if anyone else wants to chime in feel free to email schaus@ohio.edu
catfan28
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Posted: 8/24/2014 2:20 AM
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To me, the fact that there is a debate means that he shouldn't be in the rafters. Someone who gets that level of recognition should be a no-doubt, nearly unanimous decision. Trent = not doubter. Luckett = no doubter. Cooper (pending diploma) = no doubter.

The fact that we're 50/50 (at best) on Hunter should mean he's just not quite at that level. Great player...but the rafters are reserved for the absolute greatest of all time. In my mind, "doubt means don't".
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 8/24/2014 11:28 PM
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catfan28 wrote:expand_more
To me, the fact that there is a debate means that he shouldn't be in the rafters. Someone who gets that level of recognition should be a no-doubt, nearly unanimous decision. Trent = not doubter. Luckett = no doubter. Cooper (pending diploma) = no doubter.

The fact that we're 50/50 (at best) on Hunter should mean he's just not quite at that level. Great player...but the rafters are reserved for the absolute greatest of all time. In my mind, "doubt means don't".


+1

 
OU_Country
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Posted: 8/25/2014 10:10 AM
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catfan28 wrote:expand_more
To me, the fact that there is a debate means that he shouldn't be in the rafters. Someone who gets that level of recognition should be a no-doubt, nearly unanimous decision. Trent = not doubter. Luckett = no doubter. Cooper (pending diploma) = no doubter.

The fact that we're 50/50 (at best) on Hunter should mean he's just not quite at that level. Great player...but the rafters are reserved for the absolute greatest of all time. In my mind, "doubt means don't".


With this logic, we're saying that only 5-6 guys that are worthy of this in the HISTORY of Ohio Basketball.  Are you sure? 


EDIT:  I'll propose a different concept:  Hang a couple big banners showing the name and season of anyone who was ever selected first or second team All-MAC.  Go back as far as the honor has been given.  My bottom line is that there are a hell of a lot more than just five guys that have created a nice history to this program.  Those people should be shown inside the arena, not just in the "Hall of Fame".

To me, in the last 20 years, those people would include guys such as Brandon Hunter, Geno Ford, Leon Williams, John Groce, DJ Cooper, and maybe Nick Kellogg, Jerome Tillman, Tommy Freeman.  Players that have won NCAA tournament games, were All-MAC, or graduated in the top 5 in major categories such as scoring, three's, rebounding, etc. 
 

Last Edited: 8/25/2014 10:23:24 AM by OU_Country
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Posted: 8/25/2014 11:07 AM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
To me, the fact that there is a debate means that he shouldn't be in the rafters. Someone who gets that level of recognition should be a no-doubt, nearly unanimous decision. Trent = not doubter. Luckett = no doubter. Cooper (pending diploma) = no doubter.

The fact that we're 50/50 (at best) on Hunter should mean he's just not quite at that level. Great player...but the rafters are reserved for the absolute greatest of all time. In my mind, "doubt means don't".


With this logic, we're saying that only 5-6 guys that are worthy of this in the HISTORY of Ohio Basketball.  Are you sure? 


EDIT:  I'll propose a different concept:  Hang a couple big banners showing the name and season of anyone who was ever selected first or second team All-MAC.  Go back as far as the honor has been given.  My bottom line is that there are a hell of a lot more than just five guys that have created a nice history to this program.  Those people should be shown inside the arena, not just in the "Hall of Fame".

To me, in the last 20 years, those people would include guys such as Brandon Hunter, Geno Ford, Leon Williams, John Groce, DJ Cooper, and maybe Nick Kellogg, Jerome Tillman, Tommy Freeman.  Players that have won NCAA tournament games, were All-MAC, or graduated in the top 5 in major categories such as scoring, three's, rebounding, etc. 
 

Everyone you mentioned made very meaningful contributions, but that's not really the purpose of a banner. It starts to veer into everyone gets a trophy territory, and it makes the program look a little cheesy. Only the greatest players of all time hang from the rafters, and we have the degree rule as well. What you're describing would look ridiculous.
 

perimeterpost
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Posted: 8/25/2014 12:58 PM
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catfan28 wrote:expand_more
To me, the fact that there is a debate means that he shouldn't be in the rafters. Someone who gets that level of recognition should be a no-doubt, nearly unanimous decision. Trent = not doubter. Luckett = no doubter. Cooper (pending diploma) = no doubter.

The fact that we're 50/50 (at best) on Hunter should mean he's just not quite at that level. Great player...but the rafters are reserved for the absolute greatest of all time. In my mind, "doubt means don't".
To me, the fact there is a debate means that different people have different ideas of what the criteria should be because the criteria have not been formally defined.
Hawaiian Bobcat
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Posted: 8/25/2014 2:08 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
To me, the fact that there is a debate means that he shouldn't be in the rafters. Someone who gets that level of recognition should be a no-doubt, nearly unanimous decision. Trent = not doubter. Luckett = no doubter. Cooper (pending diploma) = no doubter.

The fact that we're 50/50 (at best) on Hunter should mean he's just not quite at that level. Great player...but the rafters are reserved for the absolute greatest of all time. In my mind, "doubt means don't".
To me, the fact there is a debate means that different people have different ideas of what the criteria should be because the criteria have not been formally defined.
So basically we are no different then the Baseball Writers of America.
OU_Country
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:58 PM
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Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
To me, the fact that there is a debate means that he shouldn't be in the rafters. Someone who gets that level of recognition should be a no-doubt, nearly unanimous decision. Trent = not doubter. Luckett = no doubter. Cooper (pending diploma) = no doubter.

The fact that we're 50/50 (at best) on Hunter should mean he's just not quite at that level. Great player...but the rafters are reserved for the absolute greatest of all time. In my mind, "doubt means don't".


With this logic, we're saying that only 5-6 guys that are worthy of this in the HISTORY of Ohio Basketball.  Are you sure? 


EDIT:  I'll propose a different concept:  Hang a couple big banners showing the name and season of anyone who was ever selected first or second team All-MAC.  Go back as far as the honor has been given.  My bottom line is that there are a hell of a lot more than just five guys that have created a nice history to this program.  Those people should be shown inside the arena, not just in the "Hall of Fame".

To me, in the last 20 years, those people would include guys such as Brandon Hunter, Geno Ford, Leon Williams, John Groce, DJ Cooper, and maybe Nick Kellogg, Jerome Tillman, Tommy Freeman.  Players that have won NCAA tournament games, were All-MAC, or graduated in the top 5 in major categories such as scoring, three's, rebounding, etc. 

 

Everyone you mentioned made very meaningful contributions, but that's not really the purpose of a banner. It starts to veer into everyone gets a trophy territory, and it makes the program look a little cheesy. Only the greatest players of all time hang from the rafters, and we have the degree rule as well. What you're describing would look ridiculous.
 



Why would it be ridiculous to have something hanging that honors guys that were all conference performers?  I'm not suggesting every player gets a number retired type of banner.  I'm suggesting recognizing more than five people because there are far more than five people who have been very significant in the history of the program.  Hence the reason I edited and suggested recognizing All-MAC Performers.

What about how the Tar Heels do it?

 

BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:35 PM
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Ok big difference in the example in the photo above and OHIO. Let's start with all the consensus All-Americans, National Title winners and 1st round picks.

And can we please make the distinction that the banners hanging are not necessarily retired numbers.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 8/25/2014 6:22 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Ok big difference in the example in the photo above and OHIO. Let's start with all the consensus All-Americans, National Title winners and 1st round picks.

And can we please make the distinction that the banners hanging are not necessarily retired numbers.
The point is UNC has a criteria established, and that criteria allows for several of their players to be recognized in this manner. NBA general managers and media voters is one way to validate the value of a player for a school, another is to assess how his performance compares to all others who have come before him in the program and the conference.

It has already been established that there is a difference from hanging a jersey and retiring a number. Ohio only has 1 number retired.
Last Edited: 8/25/2014 6:23:00 PM by perimeterpost
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:05 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
Ok big difference in the example in the photo above and OHIO. Let's start with all the consensus All-Americans, National Title winners and 1st round picks.

And can we please make the distinction that the banners hanging are not necessarily retired numbers.
The point is UNC has a criteria established, and that criteria allows for several of their players to be recognized in this manner. NBA general managers and media voters is one way to validate the value of a player for a school, another is to assess how his performance compares to all others who have come before him in the program and the conference.

It has already been established that there is a difference from hanging a jersey and retiring a number. Ohio only has 1 number retired.
Several keep referring to "retiring", that is why I stated that Perimeterpost.
RSBobcat
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Posted: 8/25/2014 10:37 PM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
To me, the fact that there is a debate means that he shouldn't be in the rafters. Someone who gets that level of recognition should be a no-doubt, nearly unanimous decision. Trent = not doubter. Luckett = no doubter. Cooper (pending diploma) = no doubter.

The fact that we're 50/50 (at best) on Hunter should mean he's just not quite at that level. Great player...but the rafters are reserved for the absolute greatest of all time. In my mind, "doubt means don't".


With this logic, we're saying that only 5-6 guys that are worthy of this in the HISTORY of Ohio Basketball.  Are you sure? 


EDIT:  I'll propose a different concept:  Hang a couple big banners showing the name and season of anyone who was ever selected first or second team All-MAC.  Go back as far as the honor has been given.  My bottom line is that there are a hell of a lot more than just five guys that have created a nice history to this program.  Those people should be shown inside the arena, not just in the "Hall of Fame".

To me, in the last 20 years, those people would include guys such as Brandon Hunter, Geno Ford, Leon Williams, John Groce, DJ Cooper, and maybe Nick Kellogg, Jerome Tillman, Tommy Freeman.  Players that have won NCAA tournament games, were All-MAC, or graduated in the top 5 in major categories such as scoring, three's, rebounding, etc. 

 

Everyone you mentioned made very meaningful contributions, but that's not really the purpose of a banner. It starts to veer into everyone gets a trophy territory, and it makes the program look a little cheesy. Only the greatest players of all time hang from the rafters, and we have the degree rule as well. What you're describing would look ridiculous.
 



Why would it be ridiculous to have something hanging that honors guys that were all conference performers?  I'm not suggesting every player gets a number retired type of banner.  I'm suggesting recognizing more than five people because there are far more than five people who have been very significant in the history of the program.  Hence the reason I edited and suggested recognizing All-MAC Performers.

What about how the Tar Heels do it?

 


Looks like a backyard clothes line..................

 
OU_Country
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:27 AM
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One man's view of a back yard clothes line, is another's view of a successful program.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:08 PM
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Quote:expand_more
To be honored, a player must be: the Most Valuable Player of a National Championship-winning team, an ACC Player of the Year, a first- or second-team All-America, an NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player or a member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team.[1] Tyler Zeller and Harrison Barnes became the most recent players to qualify to have their jerseys honored after the 2011–12 season. Zeller qualified by winning the 2012 ACC Player of the Year award and being namedsecond team All-American.[2] and Barnes qualified by also being named second team All-American.[3] Marcus Paige has qualified to be honored when his North Carolina career ends by being named second team All-American in 2014.[4]

To have a jersey retired, a player must win one of the following six national player of the year awards: Associated Press,National Association of Basketball Coaches, Sporting News, John R. Wooden Award, Oscar Robertson Trophy or Naismith College Player of the Year. Eight players (including Jack Cobb, whose jersey did not have a number) have had their jerseys retired. The most recent player to have his number retired is Tyler Hansbrough, who qualified by winning all six of the required national player of the year awards in the 2007–08 season.[5]



I think if any of OUr kids accomplished any of the above we would no doubt hang his jersey
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:10 PM
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Agreed Borna! This is exactly what OHIO is missing and that is a set of defined guidelines for honoring and retiring numbers. This would take the ambiguity out of the equation and would keep guys from making fools on social media lobbying for something for themselves. I for one support a selective system. Of course my $.02 means nothing to what happens.

But thanks for sharing UNC's criteria, interesting, I saw no academic requirement, I wonder if they have one?
stub
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:38 PM
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bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=]To be honored, a player must be: the Most Valuable Player of a National Championship-winning team, an ACC Player of the Year, a first- or second-team All-America, an NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player or a member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team.[1] Tyler Zeller and Harrison Barnes became the most recent players to qualify to have their jerseys honored after the 2011–12 season. Zeller qualified by winning the 2012 ACC Player of the Year award and being namedsecond team All-American.[2] and Barnes qualified by also being named second team All-American.[3] Marcus Paige has qualified to be honored when his North Carolina career ends by being named second team All-American in 2014.[4]

Ok help me out. Using these critera, who's in from Ohio besides Baumholtz (1st team All American), Trent, Luckett and Cooper to come (MAC POY). Anyone else ?


Alan Swank
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:58 PM
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MAC players of the year.  Looks like we need some banner room.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-American_Conference_Men'...
Last Edited: 8/26/2014 8:59:36 PM by Alan Swank
perimeterpost
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:15 PM
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the conference player of the year is the one most likely to be attained but do we really want to leave the decision up to the voters of the MAC POY award? And do we want to do a lifetime award based on a single season achievement?
bornacatfan
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:02 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
MAC players of the year.  Looks like we need some banner room.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-American_Conference_Men'...

I thnk putting MAC players of the year at one end in a seperate grouping is a cool idea that may get some traction. I think Balls only has Ray and Bonzi up there.....That idea still leaves Brandon out of the rafters. COnsidering david Kool and Mitch Watt amongst other dubious choices are POY I tend to agree that the MAC POY voted on by the illusttrious MAC designees is not as great as it seems. Nice that DJ cooper and McCrea started to legitimize the award again. 



 
oldkatz
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Posted: 8/26/2014 11:05 PM
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Once again,looking at all the criteria.......CAROLYN MAST!!!
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Posted: 8/27/2014 12:08 AM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
the conference player of the year is the one most likely to be attained but do we really want to leave the decision up to the voters of the MAC POY award? And do we want to do a lifetime award based on a single season achievement?


Did any POY-winning Bobcats not also have a great career?
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Posted: 8/27/2014 1:06 AM
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oldkatz wrote:expand_more
Once again,looking at all the criteria.......CAROLYN MAST!!!


Logical follow-up question...are you comfortable with having 2-3 volleyball players and 10+ wrestlers in the rafters? As soon as her banner is hung, you have to honor those sports too. Wrestling has something like 20 All-Americans. Suppose you could make a case for all of them?

Not really sure where I stand on the topic. It's nice to honor your history...but I think having too many players up there is cheesy. How many schools honor/retire jerseys for sports outside of men's basketball?
perimeterpost
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Posted: 8/27/2014 1:41 AM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
the conference player of the year is the one most likely to be attained but do we really want to leave the decision up to the voters of the MAC POY award? And do we want to do a lifetime award based on a single season achievement?


Did any POY-winning Bobcats not also have a great career?
so far no, maybe there's an argument against Lewis Geter because he was a transfer that only played 2 seasons, but that didn't stop from being inducted into the HOF. The bigger issue is putting trust in the voting committee to get it right. There's also a chance that a great Ohio player doesn't get voted when he should have. Or, a great player has his best season, but another MAC great happens to be having his best year that year too.

Back to Brandon Hunter, his best season was his senior year but he finished 3rd in MAC POY with 7 votes behind runner up Antonio Gates(15 votes) and winner Chris Kaman(37 votes). That's some unusually stiff competition but Brandon's stats stack up better than what the vote totals reflect.

CK- 22.4pts, 12.0reb, 1.2ast, 0.6stl, 3.2blk
AG- 20.6pts, 7.7reb, 4.1ast, 1.5stl, 0.2blk
BH- 21.5pts, 12.6reb*, 2.6ast, 0.8stl, 1.2blk

*Hunter's 12.6 reb/gm were most in NCAA in 2003.

In many seasons Hunter's stats would have been a no-doubter, but not that year.
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