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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: rules question
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jumper80
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Posted: 2/5/2015 11:26 AM
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In the Akron game last night. The Akron center went up for a monster slam that shot off the back iron. The ball shot across half court and Akron player retrieved it. That seems to qualify as an over and back violation as I understand it. No one seemed upset about it...what am I missing...The shot attempt or contact with rim/backboard negates over and back?
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 2/5/2015 11:30 AM
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jumper80 wrote:expand_more
In the Akron game last night. The Akron center went up for a monster slam that shot off the back iron. The ball shot across half court and Akron player retrieved it. That seems to qualify as an over and back violation as I understand it. No one seemed upset about it...what am I missing...The shot attempt or contact with rim/backboard negates over and back?
On a shot attempt, the release of a shot ends team control of the ball, hence, no over and back until the ball is possessed again.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 2/5/2015 11:32 AM
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ANy shot attempt negates possession.
JustABobcatFan
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Posted: 2/5/2015 11:37 AM
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I had the same question too until I realized it hit the rim which consist of changing possession. Don't worry, you were not the only one yelling for over and back. HAHA!!
100%Cat
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Posted: 2/5/2015 12:10 PM
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Is rolling around on your back on the floor while possessing the ball still a traveling violation?
OU77BCJ
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Posted: 2/5/2015 12:31 PM
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If you were watching the ref, he gave a signal that means he did not have possesion of the ball, juggling.
OhioStunter
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Posted: 2/5/2015 12:52 PM
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However, if that shot goes out of bounds, is it a possession arrow call or is it considered last touched by Akron and it becomes Ohio's ball?
shabamon
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Posted: 2/5/2015 12:54 PM
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Out of bounds off Akron. Ohio ball.

Let's say there's a fight for a loose ball that gets knocked out of bounds. The team who did not touch it last would have possession, doesn't matter if there was no team/player control. Same idea.
bobcat695
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Posted: 2/5/2015 1:06 PM
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It's just a long rebound. On this topic, I am amazed at the general fan's interpretation of the rules. I cringe every time I hear someone yell, "He's over the back!" There is no such rule prohibiting reaching or jumping over someone. A foul only occurs if there is a pushing or blocking call.
100%Cat
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Posted: 2/5/2015 1:22 PM
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OU77BCJ wrote:expand_more
If you were watching the ref, he gave a signal that means he did not have possesion of the ball, juggling.
I guess I was watching the Akron player rolling on the floor and not the ref, right before the scrum ended with a McAdams three.
jumper80
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Posted: 2/5/2015 1:44 PM
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Thanks ...40 years of playing none of my monster jams ever did that ;)
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 2/5/2015 2:01 PM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
It's just a long rebound. On this topic, I am amazed at the general fan's interpretation of the rules. I cringe every time I hear someone yell, "He's over the back!" There is no such rule prohibiting reaching or jumping over someone. A foul only occurs if there is a pushing or blocking call.
Yes, of course the rule isn't actually called that, but it's what people say when the potential rebounder commits a foul by jumping into another player or pushes. Not to mention, I've seen on several occasions referees making an "over the back" gesture that looks sorta like a double swim move.
OU77BCJ
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Posted: 2/5/2015 2:42 PM
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I was also watching him roll on the floor, just that after, everyone was yelling, including me and the ref made the juggling motion meaning he did not have control of the ball.
shabamon
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Posted: 2/5/2015 3:32 PM
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I referee youth basketball and have covered 3rd - 7th grade games. Sometimes I do the double swim gesture to demonstrate to young players the incorrect movement. College officials should not do that.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 2/5/2015 3:37 PM
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Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
It's just a long rebound. On this topic, I am amazed at the general fan's interpretation of the rules. I cringe every time I hear someone yell, "He's over the back!" There is no such rule prohibiting reaching or jumping over someone. A foul only occurs if there is a pushing or blocking call.
Yes, of course the rule isn't actually called that, but it's what people say when the potential rebounder commits a foul by jumping into another player or pushes. Not to mention, I've seen on several occasions referees making an "over the back" gesture that looks sorta like a double swim move.
Yes and no. There are people who actually believe that you can not going over someone's back to rebound a ball whether you touch them or not. I heard that several times at the Athens - St. V game Saturday night when there was obviously no contact.
shabamon
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Posted: 2/5/2015 3:56 PM
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IF THERE IS NO CONTACT THERE IS NO FOUL.

Parents scream at me all the time about moving screens when the defender is trying to run around the screener. Tell your kid to make contact and I'll call the offensive foul.
GroverBall
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Posted: 2/5/2015 4:34 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
It's just a long rebound. On this topic, I am amazed at the general fan's interpretation of the rules. I cringe every time I hear someone yell, "He's over the back!" There is no such rule prohibiting reaching or jumping over someone. A foul only occurs if there is a pushing or blocking call.
Yes, of course the rule isn't actually called that, but it's what people say when the potential rebounder commits a foul by jumping into another player or pushes. Not to mention, I've seen on several occasions referees making an "over the back" gesture that looks sorta like a double swim move.
Yes and no. There are people who actually believe that you can not going over someone's back to rebound a ball whether you touch them or not. I heard that several times at the Athens - St. V game Saturday night when there was obviously no contact.
I'm with DFC on this one and a bit tired of the regular "OMG don't you know there's no such thing!" that appears on this board. I've also never encountered anyone who thinks it's a foul without contact. Just because we hear it being said in gyms regularly doesn't mean the speaker isn't just using the term to express his or her thought that the contact came from behind/on top of shoulders and/or head. Are we really so picky that we want to dictate how fans express their belief that a foul has occurred? But I guess everyone has their pet peeves - this one just gets pointed out too often IMHO.
OUVan
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Posted: 2/5/2015 5:18 PM
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GroverBall wrote:expand_more
I'm with DFC on this one and a bit tired of the regular "OMG don't you know there's no such thing!" that appears on this board. I've also never encountered anyone who thinks it's a foul without contact. Just because we hear it being said in gyms regularly doesn't mean the speaker isn't just using the term to express his or her thought that the contact came from behind/on top of shoulders and/or head. Are we really so picky that we want to dictate how fans express their belief that a foul has occurred? But I guess everyone has their pet peeves - this one just gets pointed out too often IMHO.
I'm with you. Who cares what you call it. You know what they mean. Would it make everyone happier if it was called "Through the back"?
OUVan
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Posted: 2/5/2015 5:20 PM
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Okay, here's a rules question that I have seen interpreted differently by different refs.

On an inbound play after a non-basket a player is not allowed to run the baseline. Is he restricted to a certain area or does he have to maintain a pivot foot as if he was on the court? While coaching I've been told different things by the refs.
The Bozone
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Posted: 2/5/2015 9:18 PM
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Art. 8. The following pertain to a designated spot:
a The designated spot is the location at which a thrower-in is presented
disposal of the ball out of bounds as in 4-11.1.a through .c.
b. The designated spot shall be 3-feet wide with no depth limitation.
c. The thrower-in must keep one foot on or over the designated spot until the
ball is released. Pivot foot restrictions and the traveling rule are not in
effect for a throw-in.
RSBobcat
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Posted: 2/5/2015 11:41 PM
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As far as semantics goes

Over The Back = Hand Check = Both are Fouls (and descriptions of Contact)
JustABobcatFan
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Posted: 2/7/2015 12:02 AM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
It's just a long rebound. On this topic, I am amazed at the general fan's interpretation of the rules. I cringe every time I hear someone yell, "He's over the back!" There is no such rule prohibiting reaching or jumping over someone. A foul only occurs if there is a pushing or blocking call.
I remember being told in Basketball Officiating class in high school is as long as they are not making contact, then it isn't a foul. If the person behind the defender simply jumps straight up and takes the ball over the defenders head, then no foul. But like you said, if he pushes or basically reaches over the defender causing contact then, you make the "over the back" call. It's a touchy call and the only reason I agree with it is if the defender boxes out and is then pushed or reached over not allowing them to rebound.
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