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Topic: How many years of Kaminski?
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lovebobcat
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Posted: 11/23/2015 12:48 AM
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Out of ignorance: Does Kaminski have only this year and next?

I see he's a redshirt junior and has sat out two seasons: First year at MSU, then his transfer year. Any chance he could be granted a sixth year so he could play three years at OU?
cbarber357
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Posted: 11/23/2015 12:53 AM
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He is a redshirt sophomore. 3 years at OU
mcbin
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Posted: 11/23/2015 6:34 AM
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2 years. Make 'em count!
lovebobcat
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Posted: 11/23/2015 9:21 AM
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Uh, wait -- that's two different responses. Still need clarification. Anyone?
Speaker of Truth
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Posted: 11/23/2015 9:36 AM
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Right now he only has 2. I would think he would get granted a third, and if he doesn't the NCAA and Izzo should be ashamed. You dismiss a kid from a team and count it as a year of eligibility?
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 11/23/2015 10:21 AM
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As of right now, he has two, but he'll have a chance to apply for another if he wants and should have a good case for it.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 11/23/2015 10:29 AM
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The most confused topic in BA history.

It is likely that we won't know about the extra year of eligibility until after he finishes the 2016-17 season, which will be kind of awkward for Senior day.
Shawn Sellers
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Posted: 11/23/2015 6:03 PM
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the123kid wrote:expand_more
I would think he would get granted a third, and if he doesn't the NCAA and Izzo should be ashamed. You dismiss a kid from a team and count it as a year of eligibility?
Why should Izzo be ashamed?
brucecuth
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Posted: 11/23/2015 6:45 PM
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No one wants to hear this, but we all should be aware of it:

Undergrad transfers, like Simmons and Kaminski, particularly Simmons, have a serious advantage in using the NCAA's graduate transfer rule. If they've kept their nose clean academically during their redshirt transfer year, they can get their degree and still have 1 year of eligibility left and can use the graduate transfer to go anywhere they wish.

Here's how it killed Cleveland State this year. Trey Lewis was arguably their best player a year ago. He began his career at Penn St.--using one year of eligibility and completing his freshman year academically--and transferred to Cleveland St. He sat out his first year there per NCAA rules, but did his classwork, completing his sophomore year academically, but with 3 years eligibility left. He played his junior year, leaving him 2 years of eligibility. Lewis played his senior year at Cleve St., leaving him one year of eligibility. BUT HE RECEIVED HIS UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE, LEAVING HIM THE OPTION OF TRANSFERRING AND BECOMING IMMEDIATELY ELIGIBLE AT HIS SCHOOL OF CHOICE. And that's exactly what he did, leaving Cleveland St. for Louisville.

Don't think for a moment that our coaching staff and the kids themselves aren't aware of this...
west side cat
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Posted: 11/23/2015 7:42 PM
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How can Cleveland State possibly win a recruiting battle with UofL? For that matter, how can anybody with what they were offering?!?

Stories like that truly make me appreciate where we are in the world of the NCAA. I would like to think, and hope, that we and all in the MAC are playing by the rules.
lovebobcat
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Posted: 11/23/2015 9:12 PM
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brucecuth wrote:expand_more
No one wants to hear this, but we all should be aware of it:

Undergrad transfers, like Simmons and Kaminski, particularly Simmons, have a serious advantage in using the NCAA's graduate transfer rule. If they've kept their nose clean academically during their redshirt transfer year, they can get their degree and still have 1 year of eligibility left and can use the graduate transfer to go anywhere they wish.

Here's how it killed Cleveland State this year. Trey Lewis was arguably their best player a year ago. He began his career at Penn St.--using one year of eligibility and completing his freshman year academically--and transferred to Cleveland St. He sat out his first year there per NCAA rules, but did his classwork, completing his sophomore year academically, but with 3 years eligibility left. He played his junior year, leaving him 2 years of eligibility. Lewis played his senior year at Cleve St., leaving him one year of eligibility. BUT HE RECEIVED HIS UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE, LEAVING HIM THE OPTION OF TRANSFERRING AND BECOMING IMMEDIATELY ELIGIBLE AT HIS SCHOOL OF CHOICE. And that's exactly what he did, leaving Cleveland St. for Louisville.

Don't think for a moment that our coaching staff and the kids themselves aren't aware of this...
Boy, this is confusing. And scary. Guess we should be thankful these two are here this year and next and not bank on a minute past that.

Next year would seem to be our year to really make a run at a MAC title -- though I'd be fine if things progressed a year ahead of that schedule.
Last Edited: 11/23/2015 9:12:27 PM by lovebobcat
brucecuth
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Posted: 11/24/2015 12:20 AM
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west side cat wrote:expand_more
How can Cleveland State possibly win a recruiting battle with UofL? For that matter, how can anybody with what they were offering?!?

Stories like that truly make me appreciate where we are in the world of the NCAA. I would like to think, and hope, that we and all in the MAC are playing by the rules.
The BS at louisville took place before Lewis announced his intention to go there, the coach/grad assistant who organized it was gone prior to Lewis leaving Cleveland St.

It has nothing to do with the MAC "playing by the rules." The point is, kids like Simmmons have a great advantage when it comes to using the graduate transfer rule. Go online and buy a Blue Ribbon basketball yearbook and see how many teams have graduate transfers on their rosters this year. It's a ton, and it grows every year.

You wanna blame someone? Blame Russell Wilson, now the Seattle qb in the NFL. He popularized it when he left NC State for Wisconsin several years ago...
Last Edited: 11/24/2015 12:23:25 AM by brucecuth
bornacatfan
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Posted: 11/24/2015 7:38 AM
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brucecuth wrote:expand_more
You wanna blame someone? Blame Russell Wilson, now the Seattle qb in the NFL. He popularized it when he left NC State for Wisconsin several years ago...
TO be sure, in college hoops, it is affectionately known as the "Krueger rule" based on former Illini head man and UNLV coach Lon bringing his son on board leaving ASU and Sendek for Pops in Vegas . This transpired in 2006 whereas I think Wilson was more like 2010?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2512779
Last Edited: 11/24/2015 7:42:13 AM by bornacatfan
OUVan
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Posted: 11/24/2015 9:17 AM
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brucecuth wrote:expand_more
It has nothing to do with the MAC "playing by the rules." The point is, kids like Simmmons have a great advantage when it comes to using the graduate transfer rule. Go online and buy a Blue Ribbon basketball yearbook and see how many teams have graduate transfers on their rosters this year. It's a ton, and it grows every year.
I'd also add that we were the "beneficiary" of the rule last year with Chandler Thomas.
Speaker of Truth
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Posted: 11/24/2015 10:09 AM
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Shawn Sellers wrote:expand_more
I would think he would get granted a third, and if he doesn't the NCAA and Izzo should be ashamed. You dismiss a kid from a team and count it as a year of eligibility?
Why should Izzo be ashamed?
I think the NCAA should be more ashamed than Izzo for having an awful rule that a kid can lose his eligibility for being kicked off a team.

It is just a classic case of college athletes not having any rights.
Speaker of Truth
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Posted: 11/24/2015 10:11 AM
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People don't want to hear the truth, but there shouldn't be transfer rules at all. I think it is insane that the NCAA limits where a kid can play. They punish the kids because coaches will be using dirty tactics to recruit kids that are currently playing on teams.
OU_Country
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Posted: 11/24/2015 10:13 AM
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brucecuth wrote:expand_more
No one wants to hear this, but we all should be aware of it:

Undergrad transfers, like Simmons and Kaminski, particularly Simmons, have a serious advantage in using the NCAA's graduate transfer rule. If they've kept their nose clean academically during their redshirt transfer year, they can get their degree and still have 1 year of eligibility left and can use the graduate transfer to go anywhere they wish.

Here's how it killed Cleveland State this year. Trey Lewis was arguably their best player a year ago. He began his career at Penn St.--using one year of eligibility and completing his freshman year academically--and transferred to Cleveland St. He sat out his first year there per NCAA rules, but did his classwork, completing his sophomore year academically, but with 3 years eligibility left. He played his junior year, leaving him 2 years of eligibility. Lewis played his senior year at Cleve St., leaving him one year of eligibility. BUT HE RECEIVED HIS UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE, LEAVING HIM THE OPTION OF TRANSFERRING AND BECOMING IMMEDIATELY ELIGIBLE AT HIS SCHOOL OF CHOICE. And that's exactly what he did, leaving Cleveland St. for Louisville.

Don't think for a moment that our coaching staff and the kids themselves aren't aware of this...


Isn't this a rule that the NCAA was trying to tighten up a little?
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 11/24/2015 10:15 AM
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the123kid wrote:expand_more
I would think he would get granted a third, and if he doesn't the NCAA and Izzo should be ashamed. You dismiss a kid from a team and count it as a year of eligibility?
Why should Izzo be ashamed?
I think the NCAA should be more ashamed than Izzo for having an awful rule that a kid can lose his eligibility for being kicked off a team.

It is just a classic case of college athletes not having any rights.
Yes, the rule sucks but if you have a campus environment that the student athletes enjoy like everyone knows we do than I don't think we have to worry about this happening too often.

The rule can work for us too. The Basketball team hasn't seen much luck yet, but the Football team got Keith Heitzman through this rule and a few years ago we got Michael Braunstein from it too.
OUVan
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Posted: 11/24/2015 10:30 AM
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the123kid wrote:expand_more
People don't want to hear the truth, but there shouldn't be transfer rules at all. I think it is insane that the NCAA limits where a kid can play. They punish the kids because coaches will be using dirty tactics to recruit kids that are currently playing on teams.
Why is it you feel that people don't want to hear that? It would be great if they didn't need to have the transfer rules but unfortunately they are there for a very good reason. We would be a feeder school for all the big programs. As soon as the big schools saw we had a talented player they would be all over him. Big school gets an injury, time to reach out to a MAC player to fill the void. We'd have to sit there with our fingers crossed hoping our players didn't leave. We'd have years where we couldn't field a competitive team because of defections. Coach yelled at me in practice on Tuesday. Time to suit up for Akron on Wednesday. Scored 30 points on Saturday, time to give Indiana a go.
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Posted: 11/24/2015 10:39 AM
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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:expand_more
I would think he would get granted a third, and if he doesn't the NCAA and Izzo should be ashamed. You dismiss a kid from a team and count it as a year of eligibility?
Why should Izzo be ashamed?
I think the NCAA should be more ashamed than Izzo for having an awful rule that a kid can lose his eligibility for being kicked off a team.

It is just a classic case of college athletes not having any rights.
Yes, the rule sucks but if you have a campus environment that the student athletes enjoy like everyone knows we do than I don't think we have to worry about this happening too often.

The rule can work for us too. The Basketball team hasn't seen much luck yet, but the Football team got Keith Heitzman through this rule and a few years ago we got Michael Braunstein from it too.
I was talking about how KK lost a year of eligibility because a coach kicked him off a team.
Speaker of Truth
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Posted: 11/24/2015 10:42 AM
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OUVan wrote:expand_more
People don't want to hear the truth, but there shouldn't be transfer rules at all. I think it is insane that the NCAA limits where a kid can play. They punish the kids because coaches will be using dirty tactics to recruit kids that are currently playing on teams.
Why is it you feel that people don't want to hear that? It would be great if they didn't need to have the transfer rules but unfortunately they are there for a very good reason. We would be a feeder school for all the big programs. As soon as the big schools saw we had a talented player they would be all over him. Big school gets an injury, time to reach out to a MAC player to fill the void. We'd have to sit there with our fingers crossed hoping our players didn't leave. We'd have years where we couldn't field a competitive team because of defections. Coach yelled at me in practice on Tuesday. Time to suit up for Akron on Wednesday. Scored 30 points on Saturday, time to give Indiana a go.
What is the good reason? If the reason is because smaller schools would become feeder schools, then that seems more like the school's problem and not the athletes. Switching midseason wouldn't make sense because of scholarship limits.

People don't want to hear it for exactly the reason you said. They want to enjoy their sports instead of do what is in the best case of the athletes or to give the athletes actual rights.
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 11/24/2015 10:43 AM
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brucecuth wrote:expand_more
No one wants to hear this, but we all should be aware of it:

Undergrad transfers, like Simmons and Kaminski, particularly Simmons, have a serious advantage in using the NCAA's graduate transfer rule. If they've kept their nose clean academically during their redshirt transfer year, they can get their degree and still have 1 year of eligibility left and can use the graduate transfer to go anywhere they wish.

Here's how it killed Cleveland State this year. Trey Lewis was arguably their best player a year ago. He began his career at Penn St.--using one year of eligibility and completing his freshman year academically--and transferred to Cleveland St. He sat out his first year there per NCAA rules, but did his classwork, completing his sophomore year academically, but with 3 years eligibility left. He played his junior year, leaving him 2 years of eligibility. Lewis played his senior year at Cleve St., leaving him one year of eligibility. BUT HE RECEIVED HIS UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE, LEAVING HIM THE OPTION OF TRANSFERRING AND BECOMING IMMEDIATELY ELIGIBLE AT HIS SCHOOL OF CHOICE. And that's exactly what he did, leaving Cleveland St. for Louisville.

Don't think for a moment that our coaching staff and the kids themselves aren't aware of this...
Both Kaminski and Simmons have transferred once, so they cannot use the graduate exception without getting a waiver.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 11/25/2015 1:26 PM
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I'm not concerned about anyone transferring out. The players who have success here are generally happy and content. In the 16 years I've been following the Bobcats, any players we have lost to a transfer made lateral moves at best and usually downward moves.
OUVan
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Posted: 11/25/2015 1:59 PM
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the123kid wrote:expand_more
People don't want to hear it for exactly the reason you said. They want to enjoy their sports instead of do what is in the best case of the athletes or to give the athletes actual rights.
You hit the nail on the head. They want to enjoy their sports. The situation you are asking for would have a bunch of programs dropping the sport or dropping down a level and then players would have fewer scholarships. Why would a school stay at D-1 if they couldn't sell a consistent product? Right now tickets sell because fans are reasonably assured that they will get a consistent product on the court. How many years of roster purges would it take before you stopped watching Ohio basketball? What do you think our attendance would be if we had serious roster turnover every year? We are now really excited because our freshman class looks very promising. Would you be just as excited knowing that there would be a very real possibility that Jordan Dartis did a nice year apprenticeship here so he could go play for Michigan State?

So yes, it is about the business of college basketball. But guess what? The players don't have the right to play college basketball. It's a privilege and one they are well compensated for. No one is forcing them to play under these terms. They have options. Sitting out a year is hardly a large price to pay.
FearLeon
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Posted: 11/25/2015 7:11 PM
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Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
I'm not concerned about anyone transferring out. The players who have success here are generally happy and content. In the 16 years I've been following the Bobcats, any players we have lost to a transfer made lateral moves at best and usually downward moves.
Great point made here. Scratching my head to to figure out which transfer made a big impact at another school that wasn't lateral or downward????

Any names pop up?
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