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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Thoughts on tonight vs Zippy, etc
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OU_Country
3/1/2016 9:46 PM
Thoughts starting from tonight at the 8 minute mark:

*They’re draining soooo many three’s, we gotta combat that much, much better.

*Our team needs another guard to match up with the three guard look. Badly. Skip the big manz, it’s a shooter’s/guard’s game, and after Dartis and Simmons, we’re in a guard deficit compared to Zippy (and CMU).

*Saul, in my opinion, plays his starters a bit too much. They’re looking winded. Akron looks fresher. It'll look like we're out hustled, but I say they're tired.

*Akron isn’t gonna make this many three’s forever. They’re beatable in Cleveland.

*Friday at Miami MUST include getting Tony back involved in the offense.

*On defense, something has to change when going up against Zippy. I’d play Taylor a lot more when Johnson is in, and frankly hack the heck out of him. Use all five fouls. Try something different, whatever it is.

*At the beginning of the year, I figured it was Zippy and then a bunch of teams. I'd say that still appears to be the case unless they have a bad shooting day.
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Diamond Cat
3/1/2016 10:10 PM
Pretty much with OU Country. This seemed like a predictable loss given the fact it was a road game, Akron shoots and defends the 3 as good as anyone, bobble head give away to someone who never "attended" Akron, etc. It reminds me of similar games we dominate in the Convo when the energy is high and the game means something.

I think we have more to show for our efforts (post season) than Akron under the Elf. Cleveland is a whole different ballgame. Not too worked up over this loss for some reason. Maybe one of these decades all of these Akron hacks will graduate. Seems like they have had the same guys for 10 years.

Miami is a must win for a bye (I think) and they have come off 3 really impressive wins. Is Saul capable of coaching this game up? That separates the also rans from the memorable coaches.

This game, all of the sudden, has a flavor of past battles with the J Crews in Oxford.
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Danny's Knee
3/1/2016 10:14 PM
Diamond Cat wrote:expand_more
Pretty much with OU Country. This seemed like a predictable loss given the fact it was a road game, Akron shoots and defends the 3 as good as anyone, bobble head give away to someone who never "attended" Akron, etc. It reminds me of similar games we dominate in the Convo when the energy is high and the game means something.

I think we have more to show for our efforts (post season) than Akron under the Elf. Cleveland is a whole different ballgame. Not too worked up over this loss for some reason. Maybe one of these decades all of these Akron hacks will graduate. Seems like they have had the same guys for 10 years.

Miami is a must win for a bye (I think) and they have come off 3 really impressive wins. Is Saul capable of coaching this game up? That separates the also rans from the memorable coaches.

This game, all of the sudden, has a flavor of past battles with the J Crews in Oxford.
BANG !! .. Oh BABY what a BIG TIME post by the faceted feline !!
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RSBobcat
3/1/2016 10:18 PM
Yes they hit a ton of 3's. But D sucked as bad as ever - and rebounding. Only player I saw "step up" was Simmons.
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Mark Lembright '85
3/1/2016 10:36 PM
I said it earlier today- this game will reap big dividends for the team next year. We are a very young team and for them to be in a position to fight for a division championship their 1st year together is impressive. Now they have some much needed experience.

OUC's right-Ohio is painfully thin at the guard position. How Simmons is still functioning after all the minutes he's played this year is beyond me.
Last Edited: 3/1/2016 10:37:19 PM by Mark Lembright '85
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Chicken George
3/1/2016 11:08 PM
Best quote of the night from Diamond Cat, that I was thinking myself tonight: When do these guys graduate? Yes, it does seem like the same team for the past 10 years. Kept waiting on Treadwell to check in.

Other random thoughts, most that match what others have said:

*It gets crazy in Cleveland and while Akron is the clear-cut favorite IMO, "live by the 3, die by the 3." There's hope and a punchers chance.
*KK has got to be bigger in these moments. He's Kevin Love.
*Out rebounded something crazy like 47-28. They're just tougher, more athletic and scrappier. We need a couple more Mike Laster types in these kinds of games.
*Isiah Johnson eats Tony up. Not too often you can say that in MAC play, but he has twice this season.
*Laughed at announcers saying MAC could be a 2 bid league if Akron loses in MAC Championship. Like never...
*To take the next step I think we need any/either of the following:
1. A playmaker who can create his own shot taking it to the hoop and/or mid range game. JG struck lighting twice with AB and Offut, that led to NCAA runs-- need to get lucky and land another one.
2. A more athletic complimentary piece to KK at the 4. He's just so finesse it hurts on the boards and defensive end.
3. If we can't land a playmaker at the off guard and Dartis may well be that moving forward, land one at the 3 for Setty. He does the most with his ability and has come on strong, but need a replacement/upgrade there.

Overall, I thought our guys fought hard tonight and I saw no quit. Can't fault the effort or "want to." Akron just everything we do, just better.
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MonroeClassmate
3/1/2016 11:20 PM
RSBobcat wrote:expand_more
Yes they hit a ton of 3's. But D sucked as bad as ever - and rebounding. Only player I saw "step up" was Simmons.
Just home from the JAR.

Rebounding? What is that?

Game was lost in the first five minutes of the second half when one of the Zips guards sliced through to several EASY baskets. At the other end the Bobcats forced up three in a row, in close but not good looks.

To vastly improve next season and to replace Setty, the Bobcats need some bigger guy to step up and take his place. Block is nice to replace KK or Dartis perhaps but he doesn't have the height or the weight to keep guys from making it to the glass. They need some rebounding, shot blocking power that can come up with a few stick backs and plays shut down D in the lane.
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Panda
3/1/2016 11:26 PM
If Tony Campbell does not start to play hard, this team is doomed. He could be massive at Miami, but his attitude, his lack of strong play presents a problem.
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perimeterpost
3/1/2016 11:31 PM
it was 32-13 with 9:08 left in the 1st half,the Zips had already hit 9 3s and were swagging up and down the court like they were about to beat Duke in the Final 4 and then.... for the next 6:16 Ohio went on an 18-1 run as Akron shot 0-7(0-4) and had 4 straight turnovers. It was suddenly 33-31. I like our toughness, weathering the storm and erasing that big lead in the first said a lot about our team. Our lack of depth showed in the 2nd half but that will get better in time. Overall, I thought we played well and Akron played better than is to be expected. Good for them.

Some key stats in the game were-

2nd chance points:
19 Akron
7 Ohio

Bench points:
27 Akron
3 Ohio
Last Edited: 3/1/2016 11:41:35 PM by perimeterpost
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Only one OHIO
3/1/2016 11:50 PM
Yes, we showed a lot of grit fighting back. Akron shot lights out and deserved to win, but we need to improve on defense and gave up far too many offensive rebounds.
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BobcatSports
3/2/2016 12:09 AM
Depth i.e. Lack of, was huge in the second half. Damn-brot was sending in fresh troops like they were hockey lines. Saul will need a few more wins in the recruiting battle to have that luxury.

That said A tip of the lid to the Zips. Quite a 3 ball shooting extravaganza and I don't think they were raining them down with such ease in the pre-game warm-ups much less during game action.

Jaaron is just a flat-out player!! That kid is a beast and fun to watch even in a loss. Just a tad concerned we have to constantly ride him hard and put him away wet.
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Monroe Slavin
3/2/2016 12:24 AM
We clearly need rebounding help so, yeah, another guard and someone on the boards are clear needs. Preferably two of each, espec as far as the rebounder. And if they defense, then no objection at all.

I still say that Laster and Taylor have to play about a dozen minutes a game for us to keep going. If they don't, the other guys will tire. Plus they add defense and size (Taylor does, anyway).

They played 5 minutes (Laster) and 1 minute (Taylor) tonight. We can't go far with them seeing so few minutes. It's up to Saul to figure out how the O and D go when Antonio and Taylor are on the floor together.

I stated that a loss tonight isn't fatal and it was about what I expected. If we see them again, I doubt they'll shot 3balls at that % again. But we cannot get dominated on the boards like that. 18 offensive rebounds--really?!
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perimeterpost
3/2/2016 12:35 AM
a look at both rosters by number of minutes played-

OHIO
40 Simmons
39 Campbell
37 Dartis
31 Setty
31 Kaminski
16 Block, 3pts(1-1)
5 Laster, 0pts(0-0)
1 Taylor, 0pts(0-0)

AKRON
33 Robotham
26 Jackson
26 McAdams
25 Kretzer
25 Cheatham
22 Johnson
22 Williams
15 Jackson
6 Ivey


It was basically 5 v 7.
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TWT
3/2/2016 12:46 AM
Saul needs to come up with a new look for the MAC Tourney that minimizes weakness on the offensive boards. We will see how good of a tourney coach Saul is this year with a competitive team.
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Valley Cat
3/2/2016 6:16 AM
Can't stop the dribble drive consistently when your point guard plays the entire game. That was the key to the wide open looks from deep. The kid is amazing but needs a break. Campbell can't be asked to bang bodies for 39 minutes. I couldn't tell if he was lacking effort or could barely walk in the second half.
No real adjustments. Dambrot was running in body after body watching the fatigue OUr guys showed. No real adjustments that I saw. I'm no Bob Knight but I'm waiting to see the wizardry or Saul Ball.
That being said I feel good about next weekend.
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cjlipps110
3/2/2016 8:21 AM
Diamond Cat wrote:expand_more
Pretty much with OU Country. This seemed like a predictable loss given the fact it was a road game, Akron shoots and defends the 3 as good as anyone, bobble head give away to someone who never "attended" Akron, etc. It reminds me of similar games we dominate in the Convo when the energy is high and the game means something.

I think we have more to show for our efforts (post season) than Akron under the Elf. Cleveland is a whole different ballgame. Not too worked up over this loss for some reason. Maybe one of these decades all of these Akron hacks will graduate. Seems like they have had the same guys for 10 years.

Miami is a must win for a bye (I think) and they have come off 3 really impressive wins. Is Saul capable of coaching this game up? That separates the also rans from the memorable coaches.

This game, all of the sudden, has a flavor of past battles with the J Crews in Oxford.
I'm not worried about this loss either. Of course it sucks losing to Akron, but I'm thinking they'll probably shoot 2-27 from 3 during their first game of the tournament and be very frustrated and end up losing. There's no way they shoot that well the whole tournament. Take care of business in Oxford and we will be in good shape to win the tournament (as long as we can get a rebound).
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71 BOBCAT
3/2/2016 9:05 AM
In addition to all the 3's Akron hit it seemed to me that they we quicker to loose balls then we were, hence all their offensive rebounds and therefor second chance points. I think had the rebounding stats been closer the outcome may have been different.
I have yet to see a team who lives by the 3 win consistently. Akron, while they seem to consistently have a 20 win seasons year after year that is all they accomplish. They just can't seem to win in the big dance. This was the same issue that Jim Christan had at Kent during his tenure. I also think that Drambrot has built himself a lock for a long term position as he is that consistent conference winner and going further is not enough of a reason for Akron to replace him, after all this is a mid-major conference.
Now as we look toward Friday night at Miami I am real concerned as Miami has really come on since we beat them on 2/20. In addition they will be at full strength for this game. We have a 1-2 record over these past 3 games.
The #1 question that we need to answer is; "Are we mentally tough enough to win this next game"?



GO BOBCATS
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SBH
3/2/2016 9:13 AM
A big part of their energy advantage was the freshness of their legs. Saul did not go deep enough into his bench. Laster and Doug Taylor needed more minutes.

Gotta give it to Dambrot - the guy keeps reloading year after year. That's a confident, well coached team. Shows you what an extended tenure among a coaching staff can do for a program. It's a real shame we couldn't keep Groce a few years longer - that could have been a hell of a battle last night. Would have been good for the league, too.
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Bobcat1998
3/2/2016 9:41 AM
I agree about Big Tone looking spent. He just hasn't had his usual pep the last two games. Call it lack of swag or whatever. And against Kron I saw what may have been Kenny's issue with Izzo (or vice versa). The guy just doesn't play 100 percent every play. If he had Treg's hustle he would be all-league. As it is he's very talented and I'm glad to have him on our side but check out the replay, he was outhustled 95 percent of the time on looseballs, 50/50 rebounds and defense. I wish he'd bang a bit more.
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bornacatfan
3/2/2016 9:44 AM
cjlipps110 wrote:expand_more
...they'll probably shoot 2-27 from 3 during their first game of the tournament and be very frustrated and end up losing. There's no way they shoot that well the whole tournament. Take care of business in Oxford and we will be in good shape to win the tournament (as long as we can get a rebound).

I know they won't shoot over or close to 50% as I felt this was an "at Home" on senior night barrage that is not really going to be matched....but there is a reason they are the number one team in the country with 3 pts as a % of their offense. I do think they are dangerous from 3 and will consistently hit from there. THe biggest problem IMHO was the lack of a hedge to let simmons catch up. THe hedge is not to stop anyone but a high hard hedge gives the guard the ability to catch up to the ball handler. In their case the ability to take a defender and the guy who helps him lets the guard throuw back to the screener who dumps a 3...same case where Block got caught in a switch and several other cases where the defenders got caught helping and their man was left open for the 3. That said, there were some shot with hands in their faces that they just flat out made last night. As a team they are 12th with 40% with regard to raw % and they shot better than that last night. Even on an off night they are well prepared to run through the MACC with that offense.
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BobcatSports
3/2/2016 9:55 AM
I was there last nite Tom and the Zips high ball screens were punishing and impressive almost to the point as impressive as the 3ball shooting.

Do I think they will duplicate that if we match up again? Probably not to the extent that they did from the shooting but the execution of the ball screens - Yes. We had guys getting knocked around like bowling pins last nite with their screening ability. Their rotations of keeping bodies fresh even without Forsythe gave them and will give them a decided advantage in any future match-up at the Q.
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OUcats82
3/2/2016 10:19 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
A big part of their energy advantage was the freshness of their legs. Saul did not go deep enough into his bench. Laster and Doug Taylor needed more minutes.

Gotta give it to Dambrot - the guy keeps reloading year after year. That's a confident, well coached team. Shows you what an extended tenure among a coaching staff can do for a program. It's a real shame we couldn't keep Groce a few years longer - that could have been a hell of a battle last night. Would have been good for the league, too.
What Dambrot has going on at Akron over his career there is definitely a testament to coaching stability (and good coaching at that). Since taking over for Hipsher he has led their program to its strongest run in school history. They are fortunate that he appears happy in Akron and does not want to jump ship to a middling major D1 program.

That being said I know I am extremely grateful and proud that, despite having four head coaches in that same period of time, the Ohio program has had its fair share of success both in conference and especially in the post season. As much as I want to see Saul Ball win some conference titles and make NCAA runs, it would be bittersweet if that meant he would be hired away to a larger school.
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bshot44
3/2/2016 10:32 AM
71 BOBCAT wrote:expand_more
In addition to all the 3's Akron hit it seemed to me that they we quicker to loose balls then we were, hence all their offensive rebounds and therefor second chance points. I think had the rebounding stats been closer the outcome may have been different.
I have yet to see a team who lives by the 3 win consistently. Akron, while they seem to consistently have a 20 win seasons year after year that is all they accomplish. They just can't seem to win in the big dance. This was the same issue that Jim Christan had at Kent during his tenure. I also think that Drambrot has built himself a lock for a long term position as he is that consistent conference winner and going further is not enough of a reason for Akron to replace him, after all this is a mid-major conference.
Now as we look toward Friday night at Miami I am real concerned as Miami has really come on since we beat them on 2/20. In addition they will be at full strength for this game. We have a 1-2 record over these past 3 games.
The #1 question that we need to answer is; "Are we mentally tough enough to win this next game"?



GO BOBCATS [/QUOTE]Bingo. On all accounts. They did play with more pop. That seems to be something Ohio has struggled with a lot this year in different games (i.e. BG, at NIU, at CMU)...sometimes Ohio just get flat outworked. Not sure if that's youth/inexperience in college ball/etc?

We were fortunate to beat UB....so that 1-2 is dangerously close to 0-3. Wonder if Ohio is running on fumes at this point....a lot of minutes for a lot of guys that haven't played a lot of CBB in a few years (KK, Simmons, Dartis). Friday night will be a huge one for Miami....a chance for them to salvage a portion of their season....to beat Kent, Akron, Buffalo and rival Ohio down the stretch would be huge for them.

If Ohio isn't razor-sharp, they could see that top four bye go bye-bye

[QUOTE=Bobcat1998] I agree about Big Tone looking spent. He just hasn't had his usual pep the last two games. Call it lack of swag or whatever. And against Kron I saw what may have been Kenny's issue with Izzo (or vice versa). The guy just doesn't play 100 percent every play. If he had Treg's hustle he would be all-league. As it is he's very talented and I'm glad to have him on our side but check out the replay, he was outhustled 95 percent of the time on looseballs, 50/50 rebounds and defense. I wish he'd bang a bit more.
As far as KK...couldn't agree more. He is outworked the majority of the time in games. Early in the game, when Akron was making that 15-2 run there was a play where they got a rebound and were starting to push it up the floor and KK just reached on a guy 75-feet from this basket. Total lazy foul and unnecessary. He also had a play when it was getting out of hand late and he hip-checked a guy under the Akron basket for a silly foul. I understand being frustrated, but he seems to try to get away with cheap shots a lot. Kind of like the wrestler when the ref isn't looking. He could learn a lot from a guy like Treg when it comes to hustle....KK is far more-talented...but Setty has maximized his skill level. He's not the most polished basketball player, but you can't question his hustle or effort level. KK is very skilled and sometimes just appears to not be going 100% (especially when it comes to defense/rebounding)
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OUcats82
3/2/2016 11:35 AM
Hopefully KK will grow out of some of these tendencies. Of course, that may be why he is no longer playing in East Lansing.
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bornacatfan
3/2/2016 12:58 PM
I have a hard time with the outworked take. I am not so sure a lot of what we have is guys who have bad fundamental technique defensively. It seems easy to say outworked when the problem is actually where are your feet butt and hands and how do you understand angles and defensive principles?. It is one thing to look at KK and say he does not hustle and a whole nother thing to look at a tape and say....wow...he does not sit down, anticipate, close hard with high hands, overplay the angle, take away the tendency and a number of other things...
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