Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Poor crowds for Championship Week
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ou79
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Posted: 3/13/2016 2:31 PM
As I stated in another thread, for the Summit League quarterfinal between South Dakota State and Oral Roberts they had over 10,300 in attendance. For the semifinal between South Dakota and Oral Roberts on the women's side of the tourney they had over 9,300. For the tourney they had over 65,000. All in Sioux Falls. For teams like Oral Roberts, IPFW, IUPUI, Denver or North Dakota State, they are many hundreds of miles away and yet the Denny Center is filed for each game.
Last Edited: 3/13/2016 2:35:34 PM by ou79
bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/13/2016 2:39 PM
Cue the youngsters saying "what the heck else do the have to do out there?"
ou79
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Posted: 3/13/2016 2:46 PM
Good comeback Borna, I love it. On a more serious side, the main sport in the Summit is basketball. No football whatsoever. All of the XDSUs go to the MoValley for that. Also neither IPFW, IUPUI, UNO (Omaha), Denver or Oral Roberts bother with football.
ts1227
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Posted: 3/13/2016 5:25 PM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
TTT

I'm watching the Sun Belt championship from New Orleans between #1 Little Rock and #2 Louisiana-Monroe.

Absolutely pitiful crowd. Our midweek games would put it to shame. I guess everyone in the Southeast is busy watching the SEC final.
As I mentioned elsewhere, the MAC has laid an egg the past 3 years too... 5,278 in 2014, 5,266 last year and 6,719 last night. Looks like most between 2009-13 were between 8,900 and 12,500.
Tom Valentino
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Posted: 3/13/2016 6:25 PM
I wasn't surprised by the small attendance the past two years, with Toledo-Western and Buffalo-Central, but 6,700 has to be the lowest figure for a MAC final in Cleveland with Akron playing.

I don't know who controls the on-sale date for tickets for the MAC tournament, but they screwed the pooch this season. Every year in the past, tickets have gone on sale in November. My group of 20 normally gets our block of seats on Cyber Monday. This year, they didn't put tickets on sale until the first week of February and I have no idea why.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 6:51 PM
I really would like to see what attendance has been trending at each of the MAC schools' home games the last few years. I have a sneaking suspicion that it's down. One month ago, we played at Buffalo. 2700 in attendance. Is it any wonder attendance for their championship game in Cleveland was, ahem, pretty light? Yes, Akron is only a 45 min drive away. But Akron proper doesn't support the university sports teams, generally speaking. Akron is as close to a consistent league power as there is right now, and we had a fun team to watch. Attendance at our game in Akron wasn't much more than 4,000

Cleveland sports fans without a tie to a MAC school could care less about this tournament, and sadly, that would be the case wherever you put it. And timing is getting worse, too, as this was the weekend for regional HS action as well.

The attendance is simply a reflection of the MAC and its schools. There is absolutely zero buzz about MAC basketball. Honestly, if I lived in Cleveland, I probably would not have made the effort to see Akron v. Buffalo.

What would help? A school that is a an effing juggernaut, with a 27-3 record with a player that's gotten a write-up in Sports Illustrated or USA Today. Something that would get people, even some casual basketball fans, talking. People knew about the "Shaq of the MAC" outside the midwest. Right now, there's nobody close to that type of talent, with a cool nickname, to generate any interest in this league. Cynical me, even if there were, he'd probably transfer to Michigan State.
ts1227
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Posted: 3/13/2016 7:41 PM
I really think part of the "zero buzz" comes from the hideous TWCSN deal. First barely anyone gets it. Then, if you do it's not a station that you'd watch much else on. With FSN and STO, people watch for Jackets/Cavs/OHSAA and would at least see ads in the weeks leading in for the tourney., this drums up interest, and then some of those people would head up.

The largest finals crowd since it went TWCSN is 6,700 in a game that included Akron.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 3/13/2016 8:28 PM
brucecuth wrote:expand_more
I really would like to see what attendance has been trending at each of the MAC schools' home games the last few years. I have a sneaking suspicion that it's down. One month ago, we played at Buffalo. 2700 in attendance. Is it any wonder attendance for their championship game in Cleveland was, ahem, pretty light? Yes, Akron is only a 45 min drive away. But Akron proper doesn't support the university sports teams, generally speaking. Akron is as close to a consistent league power as there is right now, and we had a fun team to watch. Attendance at our game in Akron wasn't much more than 4,000

Cleveland sports fans without a tie to a MAC school could care less about this tournament, and sadly, that would be the case wherever you put it. And timing is getting worse, too, as this was the weekend for regional HS action as well.

The attendance is simply a reflection of the MAC and its schools. There is absolutely zero buzz about MAC basketball. Honestly, if I lived in Cleveland, I probably would not have made the effort to see Akron v. Buffalo.

What would help? A school that is a an effing juggernaut, with a 27-3 record with a player that's gotten a write-up in Sports Illustrated or USA Today. Something that would get people, even some casual basketball fans, talking. People knew about the "Shaq of the MAC" outside the midwest. Right now, there's nobody close to that type of talent, with a cool nickname, to generate any interest in this league. Cynical me, even if there were, he'd probably transfer to Michigan State.
The only way you'll get that is if they start counting butts in seats. It's all about tickets sold now regardless of the price. There is so much "noise" out there that nothing is all that important anymore unless it's a one off - ie., Springsteen near your town which you can't see on TV or a device.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 9:50 PM
I have said if before and I will say it again; no doubt in my mind that if you had the MAC tournament in Columbus attendance would double. Far more MAC alums (especially Ohio MAC alums) work in downtown Columbus than any other place. The number of Bobcat faithful alone would huge. We would have fans who hadn't been to a game all season that would go. Has there ever been a MAC tournament game sellout as there was in Columbus some 20 years ago? Also with Nationwide Arena, you would have an arena the same size as the Q. I realize Buffalo, Western Michigan and Northern Illinois wouldn't be happy, but they aren't really in a position to grumble.

I brought this matter up to athletic department when they had one of those travelling alumni shows in Columbus a couple of years ago, they certainly liked the idea, but the MAC brass seems set on Cleveland. Too bad, no doubt in my mind that attendance would double.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:09 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
I have said if before and I will say it again; no doubt in my mind that if you had the MAC tournament in Columbus attendance would double. Far more MAC alums (especially Ohio MAC alums) work in downtown Columbus than any other place. The number of Bobcat faithful alone would huge. We would have fans who hadn't been to a game all season that would go. Has there ever been a MAC tournament game sellout as there was in Columbus some 20 years ago? Also with Nationwide Arena, you would have an arena the same size as the Q. I realize Buffalo, Western Michigan and Northern Illinois wouldn't be happy, but they aren't really in a position to grumble.

I brought this matter up to athletic department when they had one of those travelling alumni shows in Columbus a couple of years ago, they certainly liked the idea, but the MAC brass seems set on Cleveland. Too bad, no doubt in my mind that attendance would double.
Disagree. mainly because Columbus wouldn't embrace MAC basketball. It's big ten country. Maybe there is more Ohio alums in CBus but the same thing would've happened when OU gets bounced before the final anyways. You are catering to Ohio U and no one else. Columbus is not a good place for the MAC. Cleveland is more central for everyone. If Kent played Akron we wouldn't be complaining about attendance, or even if our bobcats were in the final. It's all about match ups.

In a totally different t statement the Garfield vs St Ignatius game up the road at the Wolstein Center had a higher attendance Saturday night then the Mac championship. Four buzzer beaters and two over times.
ts1227
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:11 PM
GPro31 wrote:expand_more
I have said if before and I will say it again; no doubt in my mind that if you had the MAC tournament in Columbus attendance would double. Far more MAC alums (especially Ohio MAC alums) work in downtown Columbus than any other place. The number of Bobcat faithful alone would huge. We would have fans who hadn't been to a game all season that would go. Has there ever been a MAC tournament game sellout as there was in Columbus some 20 years ago? Also with Nationwide Arena, you would have an arena the same size as the Q. I realize Buffalo, Western Michigan and Northern Illinois wouldn't be happy, but they aren't really in a position to grumble.

I brought this matter up to athletic department when they had one of those travelling alumni shows in Columbus a couple of years ago, they certainly liked the idea, but the MAC brass seems set on Cleveland. Too bad, no doubt in my mind that attendance would double.
Disagree. mainly because Columbus wouldn't embrace MAC basketball. It's big ten country. Maybe there is more Ohio alums in CBus but the same thing would've happened when OU gets bounced before the final anyways. You are catering to Ohio U and no one else. Columbus is not a good place for the MAC. Cleveland is more central for everyone. If Kent played Akron we wouldn't be complaining about attendance, or even if our bobcats were in the final. It's all about match ups.

In a totally different t statement the Garfield vs St Ignatius game up the road at the Wolstein Center had a higher attendance Saturday night then the Mac championship. Four buzzer beaters and two over times.
Yep, doing anything college related in Columbus that doesn't involve Ohio State is basically a non-starter. Attendance would be hideous.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:11 PM
NO OHIO, NO BUTTZ IN SEATZ.
ts1227
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:12 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
NO OHIO, NO BUTTZ IN SEATZ.
Even the number of Ohio butts in seats Friday wasn't that great.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:13 PM
I'm pretty much talking about the title game...isn't that the main concern..mainly what people are posting about ?
ts1227
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:19 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
I'm pretty much talking about the title game...isn't that the main concern..mainly what people are posting about ?
Yes, but at the same time Ohio did bring less than usual for a semi IMO, and that may have rolled over into Saturday had we won. The problem seems deeper than who is involved in the game (which definitely did not help).
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:20 PM
GPro31 wrote:expand_more
I have said if before and I will say it again; no doubt in my mind that if you had the MAC tournament in Columbus attendance would double. Far more MAC alums (especially Ohio MAC alums) work in downtown Columbus than any other place. The number of Bobcat faithful alone would huge. We would have fans who hadn't been to a game all season that would go. Has there ever been a MAC tournament game sellout as there was in Columbus some 20 years ago? Also with Nationwide Arena, you would have an arena the same size as the Q. I realize Buffalo, Western Michigan and Northern Illinois wouldn't be happy, but they aren't really in a position to grumble.

I brought this matter up to athletic department when they had one of those travelling alumni shows in Columbus a couple of years ago, they certainly liked the idea, but the MAC brass seems set on Cleveland. Too bad, no doubt in my mind that attendance would double.
Disagree. mainly because Columbus wouldn't embrace MAC basketball. It's big ten country. Maybe there is more Ohio alums in CBus but the same thing would've happened when OU gets bounced before the final anyways. You are catering to Ohio U and no one else. Columbus is not a good place for the MAC. Cleveland is more central for everyone. If Kent played Akron we wouldn't be complaining about attendance, or even if our bobcats were in the final. It's all about match ups.

In a totally different t statement the Garfield vs St Ignatius game up the road at the Wolstein Center had a higher attendance Saturday night then the Mac championship. Four buzzer beaters and two over times.

Regional Finals at the Convo saw a higher attendance than the MAC Final as well
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:24 PM
The best attendance requires OHIO in the finals.

If we're in, the fans are there.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:25 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
I have said if before and I will say it again; no doubt in my mind that if you had the MAC tournament in Columbus attendance would double. Far more MAC alums (especially Ohio MAC alums) work in downtown Columbus than any other place. The number of Bobcat faithful alone would huge. We would have fans who hadn't been to a game all season that would go. Has there ever been a MAC tournament game sellout as there was in Columbus some 20 years ago? Also with Nationwide Arena, you would have an arena the same size as the Q. I realize Buffalo, Western Michigan and Northern Illinois wouldn't be happy, but they aren't really in a position to grumble.

I brought this matter up to athletic department when they had one of those travelling alumni shows in Columbus a couple of years ago, they certainly liked the idea, but the MAC brass seems set on Cleveland. Too bad, no doubt in my mind that attendance would double.
The tournament left Buckeyeville specifically due to poor attendance. Your post has no basis in reality.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:27 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
I have said if before and I will say it again; no doubt in my mind that if you had the MAC tournament in Columbus attendance would double. Far more MAC alums (especially Ohio MAC alums) work in downtown Columbus than any other place. The number of Bobcat faithful alone would huge. We would have fans who hadn't been to a game all season that would go. Has there ever been a MAC tournament game sellout as there was in Columbus some 20 years ago? Also with Nationwide Arena, you would have an arena the same size as the Q. I realize Buffalo, Western Michigan and Northern Illinois wouldn't be happy, but they aren't really in a position to grumble.

I brought this matter up to athletic department when they had one of those travelling alumni shows in Columbus a couple of years ago, they certainly liked the idea, but the MAC brass seems set on Cleveland. Too bad, no doubt in my mind that attendance would double.
The tournament left Buckeyeville specifically due to poor attendance. Your post has no basis in reality.

When did that become a requirement on this board? (jk)
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:29 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
I have said if before and I will say it again; no doubt in my mind that if you had the MAC tournament in Columbus attendance would double. Far more MAC alums (especially Ohio MAC alums) work in downtown Columbus than any other place. The number of Bobcat faithful alone would huge. We would have fans who hadn't been to a game all season that would go. Has there ever been a MAC tournament game sellout as there was in Columbus some 20 years ago? Also with Nationwide Arena, you would have an arena the same size as the Q. I realize Buffalo, Western Michigan and Northern Illinois wouldn't be happy, but they aren't really in a position to grumble.

I brought this matter up to athletic department when they had one of those travelling alumni shows in Columbus a couple of years ago, they certainly liked the idea, but the MAC brass seems set on Cleveland. Too bad, no doubt in my mind that attendance would double.
The games in Columbus were played in Battelle Hall, which only has a capacity of 6,800. As I recall, almost twice that was the attendance for the Ohio-Akron and Akron-KSU match ups from 2010-2013. The MAC Tournament in Cleveland has historically drawn more fans than Columbus/Battelle Hall has.
Last Edited: 3/13/2016 10:45:17 PM by Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:57 PM
Gentlemen, it is Sunday night and I and a bit tired and should be in bed, but with all due respect I deal with demographics and I know what I am talking about in this matter. A couple of posts said I have no basis in reality. I am going to be kind and just assume someone from Oxford hijacked their account. First of all Columbus has far more people downtown than does Cleveland, not to mention MAC alums. I dare say Miami and BG would draw more fans to Nationwide than they would Millett Hall or the Stroh Center.

Do you realize how many thousands of people state government, Nationwide Insurance, JP Morgan Chase, the Huntington, Fifth Third, AEP etc employ? I am just talking about within walking distance of the arena, let alone those folks who work a little further away. Do you realize how many thousands of young people live downtown, many of whom are MAC grads? Do any of you remember the crowds that came to watch the Bobcats when they played the Buckeyes in the 90s? Far more alums work downtown now with all the construction boom that has happened since then.

The reason they won't allow the tournament in Columbus, the athletic brass told me was specifically for the reasons I mentioned. They were told by the MAC that the Bobcats would pack Nationwide and the Michigan schools, Northern Illinois and the Buffalo's of the world would howl in protest.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 11:31 PM
Perhaps things have changed the past decade or two but when I was on campus (during the Snoopy/Jamerson/Geter years) it seemed the majority of folks were from NE ohio. Central 2nd. I'd guess my Southwest area was a distant third.

I like CLE infinitely better than C-bus. I find downtown delightful and the hotels plentiful and more than adequate. And you KNOW I'm making the side trek to A Christmas Story House before heading over to GLBC.

I say keep it at the Q, I'll be there next year Thu-Fri-Sat, MAC hoops is tremendous.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 11:59 PM
ts1227 wrote:expand_more
I really think part of the "zero buzz" comes from the hideous TWCSN deal. First barely anyone gets it. Then, if you do it's not a station that you'd watch much else on. With FSN and STO, people watch for Jackets/Cavs/OHSAA and would at least see ads in the weeks leading in for the tourney., this drums up interest, and then some of those people would head up.

The largest finals crowd since it went TWCSN is 6,700 in a game that included Akron.
I think you're on to something here. Friends of mine in Northeast Ohio who are both sports junkies and TWC subscribers have no idea that channel exists. And really, the TWC games are just a throw-in on this deal anyway. The key part is the streaming deal on ESPN3, which...while it's great for diehards like us, you're never going to draw in new fans with that kind of package. Nobody is turning on their Roku or Chromecast to find a mid-major game to watch when there are already 5 or 6 high major or NBA games airing on cable.

Fox Sports cut a lot of STO's programming when it acquired the channel, and it's really a shame that MAC basketball was part of that equation.
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Posted: 3/14/2016 9:12 AM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Gentlemen, it is Sunday night and I and a bit tired and should be in bed, but with all due respect I deal with demographics and I know what I am talking about in this matter. A couple of posts said I have no basis in reality. I am going to be kind and just assume someone from Oxford hijacked their account. First of all Columbus has far more people downtown than does Cleveland, not to mention MAC alums. I dare say Miami and BG would draw more fans to Nationwide than they would Millett Hall or the Stroh Center.

Do you realize how many thousands of people state government, Nationwide Insurance, JP Morgan Chase, the Huntington, Fifth Third, AEP etc employ? I am just talking about within walking distance of the arena, let alone those folks who work a little further away. Do you realize how many thousands of young people live downtown, many of whom are MAC grads? Do any of you remember the crowds that came to watch the Bobcats when they played the Buckeyes in the 90s? Far more alums work downtown now with all the construction boom that has happened since then.

The reason they won't allow the tournament in Columbus, the athletic brass told me was specifically for the reasons I mentioned. They were told by the MAC that the Bobcats would pack Nationwide and the Michigan schools, Northern Illinois and the Buffalo's of the world would howl in protest.
Another post with zero basis in reality. Not to mention essentially pointless, as Cleveland is booked through 2023 as a host. But I'll bite.

Attendance at this tournament has nothing to do with demographics. Columbus, like Detroit and Toledo, has tried and failed as a host for this tournament. That poor attendance came in a time before every game what on cable and/or streaming and in an era when the MAC regularly featured NBA talent.

As for the number of MAC alumni in each respective city, almost all Akron and Kent State grads stay in Northeast Ohio, and all the other Ohio MAC schools are well represented here. There are far more MAC alumni in and near Cleveland than Columbus. And since you are a demographic expert, perhaps you can explain how moving the tournament from the 18th largest TV market to the 31st largest would be a good thing. Does one have to be a professional demographer to see that the Columbus CSA has 1.2 million fewer people than Cleveland's?
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Posted: 3/14/2016 9:13 AM
Tom Valentino wrote:expand_more
I really think part of the "zero buzz" comes from the hideous TWCSN deal. First barely anyone gets it. Then, if you do it's not a station that you'd watch much else on. With FSN and STO, people watch for Jackets/Cavs/OHSAA and would at least see ads in the weeks leading in for the tourney., this drums up interest, and then some of those people would head up.

The largest finals crowd since it went TWCSN is 6,700 in a game that included Akron.
I think you're on to something here. Friends of mine in Northeast Ohio who are both sports junkies and TWC subscribers have no idea that channel exists. And really, the TWC games are just a throw-in on this deal anyway. The key part is the streaming deal on ESPN3, which...while it's great for diehards like us, you're never going to draw in new fans with that kind of package. Nobody is turning on their Roku or Chromecast to find a mid-major game to watch when there are already 5 or 6 high major or NBA games airing on cable.

Fox Sports cut a lot of STO's programming when it acquired the channel, and it's really a shame that MAC basketball was part of that equation.

How could a sports junkie who is a TWC subscriber not be aware of the TWC Sports Channel?
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