Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Kaminski 3 Point Shooting
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Andrew Ruck
3/2/2016 10:06 AM
This has mostly been a positive season, but the biggest disappointment for me has been the 3 point shooting of KK. I was extremely excited to have him on board, the biggest reason being his reputation as an absolute sharp shooter. This man had a .494 3 point % as a freshman in the Big Ten. Yes, it was on limited playing time of 12 minutes a game and just 77 attempts for the season. But this was in arguably the best conference in the country. And his high school stats had similar sharp-shooter accolades.

A .450 percentage was not unreasonable to expect. He currently sits at .349. Had he shot at a .450 rate, that would be 20 more 3 pointers or 60 more points for the Bobcats. It may not sound like much, but that would make a huge difference.

Kenny has attempted 71 more 3 pointers than the next closest on the team, Jordan Dartis. He's attempted 135 more than Simmons. Dartis (.471!), Simmons (.456), & Campbell (.416) have all shot the 3 significantly better than KK.

My point is I feel like this offense was set up to maximize 3 point attempts for KK, and righty so. But I think it is time to tweak the approach some. At this point, there is little reason you could give me for KK attempted more 3 pointers than Jordy. Also, I think KK should trust his dribble & drive abilities and take more chances in the paint.

Disclaimer - The views and expressions of this post are from an uninformed fan for the purposes of discussion. No, I don't think I am a better coach than Saul Phillips, or a better shooter than KK. I also recognize these are kids we are talking about who are trying their best, yada yada.
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bshot44
3/2/2016 10:21 AM
Totally agree. Not sure if it's the flow of the offense or what, but I feel like a lot of his 3-pt attempts are forced. He just catches and shoots no matter the situation (shot clock, defense, game situation)

I think when he does put the ball on the floor and get inside the arc, he's a dangerous scorer.

He's the top FT shooter in the MAC (and probably the country) at over 87%

Why not try to get to the line more?

I know that's "not his game" and he's a shooter. If that's the case, I'd love to see them screen more for him up top and try to get him some catch and shoot opportunities off screens. Kind of like Akron does with McAdams.

Don't even get me started on KKs "defense"......that's where he's really hurt this team. But if he can give them 18 points per night, I'm guessing Saul is willing to live with those deficiencies.
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C Money
3/2/2016 11:03 AM
I'm glad someone started this thread, because I've been thinking the same things. (And I'd echo Ruck's sentiment that I am not a smart man when it comes to basketball strategy, etc., so I don't put much stock in even my own opinions beyond just "this is what it looks like to me.")

The comparison I keep making in my mind is Ivo Baltic. I think KK's ceiling is much higher than what Ivo was, and I also think KK should be a shooter whereas Ivo relied on his jumper waaaaay too much. But I see similarities in decision making on the offensive end like taking ill-advised shots too early in the possession and not working inside nearly enough.

KK's got a weird place in the lineup, though, to be a shoot-first player. The inside-out game seems to work best for us with the 1 or 2 as the shooter. Could KK slide into the 2 (a lineup of something like Simmons, Kaminski, Block, Setty, and Campbell) to work from that spot?

KK's rust from a year off should be gone by now, unless his shoulder is still bothering him.

I dunno...but this is more fun to think about than work, so go Bobcats.
Last Edited: 3/2/2016 11:03:44 AM by C Money
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GoCats105
3/2/2016 11:14 AM
Same here, C Money. Been thinking about saying something for weeks but didn't know how to put it into words.

I love what KK brings to the table. I think sometimes maybe he ventures into the land of over confident? Or maybe he thinks he needs to take over with his shooting? I'm not sure. There are just times when he puts up a shot and I'm thinking "what was that/why would he do that/huh?" And there are other times when I think he's got enough room to shoot, but instead he puts it on the deck.

Maybe he's just trying to adjust to playing more than 12 minutes a game. I have to think when he was at MSU he had one job: shoot the ball. Shouldn't be that far of a stretch to think he still has that mentality. I would have hoped he had gotten out of it by now.

BTW, he's really dangerous at 17 feet and in. Those midrange jumpers are key to getting defenders to slack off the 3pt line. I also think he needs to get to the FT line more. Either way, defenses are still aware of his shooting ability. He's basically being guarded as soon as he steps over half court.

Here's something I don't understand: why are KK and Tony on the same side of the floor most of the time on offense? I feel like it should be KK and Jordy. Put both of your most dangerous shooters on one side, so the defense has to be honest to that. That opens up Treg's driving and Tony's inside game, I think.
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bobcatsquared
3/2/2016 12:09 PM
KK reminds me of that pickup player at the Y or on the playgrounds. The one who, when he gets the ball, everyone knows the shot is going up, no matter what. He has blinders on and doesn't see the four players wearing the same color jersey. The one unlike the best "basketball" player on the court who is a triple threat when he gets the ball - a threat to shoot the ball, or pass it, or dribble - whatever is best for the team on that possession.

Too many times this year you just know what's going to happen when KK gets the ball. Being too predictable is not a good thing (unless your Curry).
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cjlipps110
3/2/2016 12:22 PM
He has been very effective at the shot fake, stepping inside the 3 point arc, and burying the 17 footers. I'd like to see more of that out of him. And obviously get him to the free throw line more since he has such a great FT%.
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71 BOBCAT
3/2/2016 12:24 PM
I do think that the coach needs to impress on KK to hustle more on D, drive to the bucket more, and realize that if his 3 ball stats need to improve or his PT will suffer. PERIOD!





GO BOBCATS
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OUBobcat13
3/2/2016 1:19 PM
I don't dislike Kenny, but I really think this is a better team when Gavin Block is getting more time over KK. I'm not saying Gavin is a better player. Anecdotally, and with my very limited bball knowledge, it just seems that we perform better on both ends.
Last Edited: 3/2/2016 1:26:51 PM by OUBobcat13
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OUVan
3/2/2016 1:49 PM
C Money wrote:expand_more
KK's rust from a year off should be gone by now, unless his shoulder is still bothering him.
I read somewhere earlier in the year that his shoulder wasn't going to be right all season but that he could work through it.

Interesting stat: We are 4-0 when Kenny takes 10 or more 3pters in a game. He is 23-48 (48%) in those games. In MAC play we are 5-7 in games where he takes fewer than 10 3pters.
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GoCats105
3/2/2016 2:00 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
KK's rust from a year off should be gone by now, unless his shoulder is still bothering him.
I read somewhere earlier in the year that his shoulder wasn't going to be right all season but that he could work through it.

Interesting stat: We are 4-0 when Kenny takes 10 or more 3pters in a game. He is 23-48 (48%) in those games. In MAC play we are 5-7 in games where he takes fewer than 10 3pters.
Could be a guy that just takes a while to get warmed up. It's not unheard of.
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OU_Country
3/3/2016 4:02 PM
OUBobcat13 wrote:expand_more
I don't dislike Kenny, but I really think this is a better team when Gavin Block is getting more time over KK. I'm not saying Gavin is a better player. Anecdotally, and with my very limited bball knowledge, it just seems that we perform better on both ends.

I wouldn't disagree with this at all. Gavin seems to be a more effective passer, and smarter defender. I'd just like to see a more rounded game from KK. His fake to get the 17 footer as was mentioned is a nice piece that's been getting better. Also, as coach said, forcing fewer shots would be good. We'll see...this team pretty much is what it is right now. Over the spring and summer, it would be nice to see KK's game get better on D, and on the glass. Of course if he wants to have two games in a row in Cleveland that mirror what Reggie McAdams did in the last week, I'm good with that too!
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cc-cat
3/3/2016 4:21 PM
When he is on, he adds a valuable dimension to the team. My take is we can win (and have won) games against many teams when he is off his game or not playing many minutes. But this team is only capable of beating Akron or any team in the NCAAs (should we get there), with him out there and on his game. Therefore, let's ride it out and see how it goes. I like Block's game, but KKs game, when on, takes us to a higher level.
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bshot44
3/3/2016 4:56 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
When he is on, he adds a valuable dimension to the team. My take is we can win (and have won) games against many teams when he is off his game or not playing many minutes. But this team is only capable of beating Akron or any team in the NCAAs (should we get there), with him out there and on his game. Therefore, let's ride it out and see how it goes. I like Block's game, but KKs game, when on, takes us to a higher level.
I admit our offense gets a boost when he's on....but his a total liability on defense. Go back and watch that UB game...he was hitting shots...but getting totally blown off the court on the defensive end.

Just watch him Friday vs. Miami and in the MAC tourney on defense. It'll turn your stomach.
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SBH
3/3/2016 5:47 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
KK reminds me of that pickup player at the Y or on the playgrounds. The one who, when he gets the ball, everyone knows the shot is going up, no matter what. He has blinders on and doesn't see the four players wearing the same color jersey. The one unlike the best "basketball" player on the court who is a triple threat when he gets the ball - a threat to shoot the ball, or pass it, or dribble - whatever is best for the team on that possession.

Too many times this year you just know what's going to happen when KK gets the ball. Being too predictable is not a good thing (unless your Curry).
Which is exactly how I remember you back in the Grover days.
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bobcatsquared
3/3/2016 5:55 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
KK reminds me of that pickup player at the Y or on the playgrounds. The one who, when he gets the ball, everyone knows the shot is going up, no matter what. He has blinders on and doesn't see the four players wearing the same color jersey. The one unlike the best "basketball" player on the court who is a triple threat when he gets the ball - a threat to shoot the ball, or pass it, or dribble - whatever is best for the team on that possession.

Too many times this year you just know what's going to happen when KK gets the ball. Being too predictable is not a good thing (unless your Curry).
Which is exactly how I remember you back in the Grover days.
I didn't mention intramural basketball out of respect to a couple of regular posters on BA, both posting in this thread.
Last Edited: 3/3/2016 5:56:00 PM by bobcatsquared
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Alan Swank
3/3/2016 6:29 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
KK reminds me of that pickup player at the Y or on the playgrounds. The one who, when he gets the ball, everyone knows the shot is going up, no matter what. He has blinders on and doesn't see the four players wearing the same color jersey. The one unlike the best "basketball" player on the court who is a triple threat when he gets the ball - a threat to shoot the ball, or pass it, or dribble - whatever is best for the team on that possession.

Too many times this year you just know what's going to happen when KK gets the ball. Being too predictable is not a good thing (unless your Curry).
Which is exactly how I remember you back in the Grover days.
Kind of like playing in Akron on the playgrounds in the 70's. You didn't want to be the guy inbounding the ball because you probably weren't getting it back.
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Monroe Slavin
3/3/2016 6:31 PM
'squared and sbh--Can I give you to each other for holiday gifts?! That would increase my fun exponentially and bring the universal karma. Na-ma-ste.


I've no problem with how many shots KK takes, so long as all of them are good shots. Which has not been the case.

Quick, deep, heat checks thrown up with no care for game situation, where our players are on the court--No.
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lovebobcat
3/3/2016 10:38 PM
KK is a poor man's Bubba Walther. As others have said, I wish he would vary his game more -- drive inside, take the 10- to 17-foot jumpers.

Unrelated: I really think Treg takes the smartest shots on the team. He has been great at driving to the basket and getting good looks, never shooting more than about 10 feet away. I think if he picked a game and shot 10 more times than usual, he might just go off for 30 points.

Really proud of Treg's development over the last year.
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Andrew Ruck
3/10/2016 10:31 PM
I hear you, Kenny. Well played.
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oubobcatjohn
3/10/2016 11:58 PM
There have years when we didn't have anyone hit 35% from behind the arc. Kaminski is a bad shooter, its just he is a bit streaky. DJ Cooper was mediocre three point shooter and very streaky, but he saved his hot streaks for the MAC tournament. Kaminski perhaps saved his best games for this week. 5-8 from down town in the quarters nice start,
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bobcatsquared
3/11/2016 5:32 AM
Big game from KK, hope he has two more left this weekend.

Anyone hear the comparison made by the TWSC studio analyst of KK and Kevin McHale during the game's halftime? Something about "blackhole" and what Bird thought of McHale when he got touches in the Celtics' offense.
Last Edited: 3/11/2016 5:32:53 AM by bobcatsquared
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OUVan
3/11/2016 12:03 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
I hear you, Kenny. Well played.
Did anyone notice that he wasn't wearing his shoulder wrap (brace?) last night? A good sign I believe.
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bornacatfan
3/11/2016 3:12 PM
oubobcatjohn wrote:expand_more
There have years when we didn't have anyone hit 35% from behind the arc. Kaminski is a bad shooter, its just he is a bit streaky. DJ Cooper was mediocre three point shooter and very streaky, but he saved his hot streaks for the MAC tournament.

KenPom only goes back to 2002.

There is NOT ONE YEAR that Ohio has not has AT LEAST 2 players playing and shooting significant minutes over 35%.

That is counting only players with over 50 attempts and leaving out examples like KVK's 6/17 from 3 his frosh year.

KK is NOT a bad shooter. He is a good shooter with some change in his shot that has not nbeen cleaned up

DJ MAC tourney lines If those are hot streaks someone is in trouble.

2010
5/12

2011
2/16

2012
14 /30

2013
4/12
Last Edited: 3/11/2016 3:13:31 PM by bornacatfan
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OhioCatFan
3/11/2016 11:33 PM
KK against Beefs got a number of key rebounds and assists tonight. I even noticed him trying to play defense. There is more to his game than just 3 point shooting.
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Monroe Slavin
3/12/2016 12:51 PM
I like KK but his shot selection, espec in light of game circumstances, is not always the best. Just because he's somewhat open doesn't mean that the situation (score, time of game, momentum on court, position of our guys on the court, etc) is ripe to gun it.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I remember Bubba Walther as a guy who we regarded as a gunner. But Bubba seemed to shoot with better regard for whether a shot was wise given all the game circumstances.

KK does rebound a bit but there are points where his defense is not much.
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