Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Poor crowds for Championship Week
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Monroe Slavin
3/12/2013 12:37 PM
Fan interest/attendance a function of location  or  quality of play/team fandom's belief in team?


If two MAC teams were ranked in top 25 and meeting in MAC title game, would it much matter between CLE and columbus?
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athena
3/12/2013 1:15 PM
Columbus is only about half the drive for me, but I'm 100% in favor of keeping the tournament in Cleveland. It's been great there. I don't know why we'd want to take the MAC tourney into the heart of Buckeyeville anyway.
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Bleed Green & White
3/12/2013 2:25 PM
Nationwide is definitely a better overall arena, and I'd argue with anyone that the Short North / Arena District (and even Downtown) area is better than Cleveland. More variety and unique. There's some hometown pride thrown in there too. It would take only a a few years to have the MAC learn to love it.

But all that said, Cleveland is a great host and I wouldn't want it to move. The media has done a great job if focusing on it and proximity to MAC offices is key.

The problem with attendance is a problem with quality, not venue.
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Mark Lembright '85
3/12/2013 2:49 PM
Bleed Green & White wrote:expand_more
Nationwide is definitely a better overall arena, and I'd argue with anyone that the Short North / Arena District (and even Downtown) area is better than Cleveland. More variety and unique. There's some hometown pride thrown in there too. It would take only a a few years to have the MAC learn to love it.

But all that said, Cleveland is a great host and I wouldn't want it to move. The media has done a great job if focusing on it and proximity to MAC offices is key.

The problem with attendance is a problem with quality, not venue.


Wow-that is a throwdown! (not really-I'm just bored at the moment)  The Columbus vs. Cleveland debate is probably worthy of its own thread, but as far as the Short North area goes, there is no way that area is more diverse than either Tremont or Ohio City in Cleveland.  It is a very nice area, but I think both the Tremont and the Ohio City areas are much more diverse and unique.  I mean, Great Lakes Brewery is the best brewery in the country!  And Michael Symon the chef, need I say more?
Last Edited: 3/12/2013 3:20:36 PM by Mark Lembright '85
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SBH
3/12/2013 2:53 PM
Bleed Green & White wrote:expand_more
Nationwide is definitely a better overall arena, and I'd argue with anyone that the Short North / Arena District (and even Downtown) area is better than Cleveland. More variety and unique. There's some hometown pride thrown in there too. It would take only a a few years to have the MAC learn to love it.

But all that said, Cleveland is a great host and I wouldn't want it to move. The media has done a great job if focusing on it and proximity to MAC offices is key.

The problem with attendance is a problem with quality, not venue.



One of several reasons the tourney is in Cleveland is that the Q offers free office space for the MAC's HQ.  If the tournament moved to Columbus or elsewhere, the same undoubtedly would have to be true.




Last Edited: 3/12/2013 2:53:32 PM by SBH
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Ohio69
3/12/2013 2:59 PM
Why fix something that is not broken?

Cleveland is an easy trip and known entity for Akron and Kent State. 

Ohio shows well due to the large number of students and alums from the Cleveland area and because we have the best damn fans in the MAC.

The Plain Dealer and Akron Beacon Journal pay attention and promote the tourney.

What's the problem?
Last Edited: 3/12/2013 2:59:53 PM by Ohio69
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Jeff McKinney
3/12/2013 3:09 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Why fix something that is not broken?

Cleveland is an easy trip and known entity for Akron and Kent State. 

Ohio shows well due to the large number of students and alums from the Cleveland area and because we have the best damn fans in the MAC.

The Plain Dealer and Akron Beacon Journal pay attention and promote the tourney.

What's the problem?


Amen, bruthuh!  
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Recovering Journalist
3/12/2013 3:31 PM
Do I have to point out that that Columbus has a big, ugly, scarlet, and gray distraction?

Or that the city lost the tournament due in large part to attendance issues, and had finals that did not sell out an Akron-sized venue?

Or that articles like this appeared the last year Columbus hosted?

MID-AMERICAN CONFERENCE BASKETBALL TOURNAMENT HELD AT BATTELLE HALL MUST DRAW MORE FANS IF IT IS TO STAY IN COLS IN 1995 
Publication: Columbus Dispatch     Date: Sunday, March 6, 1994
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cincybobcat99
3/12/2013 3:39 PM
Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
The thing is, Cleveland actually embraces this tournament. The Plain Dealer started coverage on Sunday and SportsTime Ohio coverage has been great. I'm not sure you'll get the same treatment in Columbus. I think the MAC Tourney is one thing the MAC does right. Why mess with it? 


+1

Columbus media would bury the MAC Tourney coverage, while it followed the Big Ten Tourney in Chicago. 
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perimeterpost
3/12/2013 4:05 PM
Here's a comparison of the attendance for the MACC, the entire tournament, the regular season, and the home avg for the the two teams in the MACC. When the MACC is drawing more than the combined avg of the two participants I don't really see how Cleveland could be seen as anything but a success.

2012
10,301- MAC Championship Game
3,819- MAC Tournament (all games)
2,970- MAC Season
6,177- Ohio home
3,440- Akron home


2011
8,926- MAC Championship Game
3,756- MAC Tournament (all games)
2,907- MAC Season
3,464- Kent home
2,821- Akron home

2010
9,533- MAC Championship Game
3,477- MAC Tournament (all games)
2,798- MAC Season
5,289- Ohio home
2,824- Akron home
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Bleed Green & White
3/12/2013 6:30 PM
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:expand_more
Nationwide is definitely a better overall arena, and I'd argue with anyone that the Short North / Arena District (and even Downtown) area is better than Cleveland. More variety and unique. There's some hometown pride thrown in there too. It would take only a a few years to have the MAC learn to love it.

But all that said, Cleveland is a great host and I wouldn't want it to move. The media has done a great job if focusing on it and proximity to MAC offices is key.

The problem with attendance is a problem with quality, not venue.


Wow-that is a throwdown! (not really-I'm just bored at the moment)  The Columbus vs. Cleveland debate is probably worthy of its own thread, but as far as the Short North area goes, there is no way that area is more diverse than either Tremont or Ohio City in Cleveland.  It is a very nice area, but I think both the Tremont and the Ohio City areas are much more diverse and unique.  I mean, Great Lakes Brewery is the best brewery in the country!  And Michael Symon the chef, need I say more?[/QUOTE]

I was talking about the area that is walking distance from Nationwide is better and has more variety.  Tremont and Ohio City do rock, but the only plus of the Gateway as compared to Short North / Arena District is it's proximity to the casino.  While I have a lot of fun in those bars along Prospect and Huron, the options High and Park Streets offer within a 5 min walk are superb.



And really we're gonna go back 19 years for comparisons?  

[QUOTE=Recovering Journalist]
Or that the city lost the tournament due in large part to attendance issues, and had finals that did not sell out an Akron-sized venue?

Or that articles like this appeared the last year Columbus hosted?

MID-AMERICAN CONFERENCE BASKETBALL TOURNAMENT HELD AT BATTELLE HALL MUST DRAW MORE FANS IF IT IS TO STAY IN COLS IN 1995 
Publication: Columbus Dispatch     Date: Sunday, March 6, 1994


If so, I'll start writing my critique of the game-day atmosphere of Richfield and Peninsula...  http://goo.gl/maps/DJl4N



Again, the problem is with the quality of basketball programs and not Cleaveland.
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BobcatCrew
3/12/2013 6:53 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
I don't understand why the Sun Belt thought Hot Springs was a good idea. Then again, where is a good location? Nashville, maybe, but that conference is just so far spread out. And the Summit plays its tournament in Sioux Falls! Sioux Falls! Might as well play it in Saskatchewan.


Hey, that Summit League Championship game tonight in Sioux Falls is going to actually be a great crowd with North Dakota St. vs. South Dakota State.  But couldn't have planned that... it's the best case scenario for them.

Hot Springs was horrible for the Sun Belt... looked like a few hundred in the stands, which doesn't help Mid Tenn case for an at-large bid. 
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shabamon
3/12/2013 6:56 PM
Tonight's NEC and Horizon championship games will be played in the home gym of one of the participating teams. It should make for some great ball to watch.
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davepi2
3/12/2013 8:47 PM
Wasn't the tournament played for a couple of years in Columbus back in the 90's? I wonder how many attended those games? Oops , just noticed someone already mentioned columbus had the tourney before. Since it was already mentioned the attendance issues when is was in columbus I still wonder what the average attendance was. I know it was in a small hotel areana so I wonder if that possibly affected it at all.
Last Edited: 3/12/2013 8:50:38 PM by davepi2
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shabamon
3/12/2013 8:49 PM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
Tonight's NEC and Horizon championship games will be played in the home gym of one of the participating teams. It should make for some great ball to watch.


The LIU-Brooklyn crowd was more hype last year, but it may due to them absolutely smoking Mt. St. Mary's. The Blackbirds are fun to watch.

EDIT: and just as I end that last sentence, they throw down two #omgdunx .
Last Edited: 3/12/2013 8:53:23 PM by shabamon
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LoganElm_grad09
3/12/2013 11:00 PM
athena wrote:expand_more
Columbus is only about half the drive for me, but I'm 100% in favor of keeping the tournament in Cleveland. It's been great there. I don't know why we'd want to take the MAC tourney into the heart of Buckeyeville anyway.


This was my first thought of going up to Columbus.  It would be good to get Columbus, given the shorter distance from Athens, but let's stick with Cleveland.
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DXer
3/14/2013 2:10 AM
The Sun Belt tournament moves to New Orleans next year. That would be a very inviting destination to travel to and makes logical sense for the league. 

The Sun Belt tournament over the years has been in a bunch of different places, sometimes on campus sites, sometimes on neutral sites. They have been in Hot Springs maybe the past 3-4 years. Before that they would play at a campus site, but not necessarily at the #1 seed arena, but at the school that bid on it ahead of time. About 5 years ago South Alabama had their best team in years and by chance had the tournament on their home site. It would have been a classic matchup with as many as 10,000 fans for the championship game, but South Alabama went out to lunch come tournament time. They won their first round game by a bucket at the end of the game, then went down in the semi-final game.

The MAC has a good thing going in Cleveland.  But other mid-major or lower D1 leagues who have low attendance tournaments should definitely play at campus sites. It only makes sense.

It just suprises me how the media controls the general public. With the ton of basketball fans within a 4-5 hour drive of Cleveland you would think that 20,000 fans for the final MAC tournament games would be normal - just for the excitement of being at a D1 tournament semi's and championship game from a fan's standpoint. But since the media downplays the MAC in its home territory and makes out that the B1G is the only league worth watching, only solid fans of the competing schools come to the games.
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Alan Swank
3/14/2013 9:26 AM
DXer wrote:expand_more
It just suprises me how the media controls the general public. With the ton of basketball fans within a 4-5 hour drive of Cleveland you would think that 20,000 fans for the final MAC tournament games would be normal - just for the excitement of being at a D1 tournament semi's and championship game from a fan's standpoint. But since the media downplays the MAC in its home territory and makes out that the B1G is the only league worth watching, only solid fans of the competing schools come to the games.


I don't think the media has anything to do with it at least for "solid" fans of MAC schools.  I've been a season ticket holder since they reconfigured the Convo and have been attending games since 1979.  If OU wasn't playing Friday night, and there are only four teams playing Friday night, I wouldn't even think of making the 3.5 hour drive from Athens to see the games especially when I can see them on TV.  We'll certainly support our team but the value of my time and money spent traveling to games I'm not interested in is the reason I'll stay in Athens if the Bobcats aren't playing.  I don't care if it's the number one and two team in the nation playing unless it's for the national championship and I can get good seats.
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Maryland Bobcat
3/14/2013 12:07 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
If the MAC played its semi-finals and finals on Sunday and Monday night, the crowds would be very, very small.


This is an excellent comment, and absolutely vital to this discussion.  Remember how empty MAC football stadiums are during the week for televised games?  It's tough for these small conferences.  You want to be on national tv, but the only slots available are during the week.

I follow the MAAC due my wife's association with Loyola U, and have been to many games.  They routinely sell out, but it only seats 3,000.  The MAAC only averages about 2K per game as it is, then expects those fans bases to travel to Springfield, Mass, from locations as far away as Buffalo and Baltimore on a Monday night to watch their team.  They do try hard to promote the tourney all season long, but there's still only so many fans you can get, and only so much local interest in Marist vs Fairfield.  

Like someone posted earlier, it seems to make more sense to have it at a campus site like the Horizon League does.  I understand the arenas (I use that term loosely) are small in a conferences like the MAAC, but at least it would be a sellout and a good atmosphere.  The neutral sites also suffer when surprise teams (like Manhattan vs Iona) make the finals.  It would also make the regular season so much more meaningful for conferences with only one bid.  
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anorris
3/14/2013 12:47 PM
Great point, '69. I totally missed it on the last page.
Last Edited: 3/14/2013 12:48:52 PM by anorris
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RSBobcat
3/14/2013 11:56 PM
MAC tourney in Cleveland, Columbus, Detroit, or Timbuktu - Whatever........... Only One Certainty - More Bobcats will be there than anyone else MAC - as long as the current conference configuration remains.

Cleveland caters to Can't and 'Kron - so we 'defer" to their inferior fan bases because a non-MAC city with a ('nuther) failing print rag gives the tourney attention due to OUr foes? OUr "best interest" is served"...........by "default"?

Something wrong w/that no matter how you look at it. The biggest "wrong" is the problems w/the MAC. I am inclined to say if we are the dominant and substantial sustaining force............then leverage it.............or leave it.............. 
Last Edited: 3/14/2013 11:58:56 PM by RSBobcat
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Pataskala
3/16/2013 1:47 PM
Watching the CUSA title game from Tulsa.  This would be like having the MAC tourney in Dekalb.  Top 20 Memphis is playing So Miss and maybe 10% of the seats are filled.  Worse than any of the smaller tourneys that wound up earlier this week.  Granted, the game started at 10:30 a.m. out there, but it's really embarrassing.  Even with Tulsa playing last night they only had 8,000 in a 19,000-seat arena.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
3/16/2013 3:29 PM
When columbus had the tourney, it was only the semis and finals.  When Ohio won teh title in 94, it was in Columbus and the final was packed to roof, only about 6500 capacity, but it was full and loud as hell. That was the last tourney in Columbus.
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ts1227
3/16/2013 3:42 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
Do I have to point out that that Columbus has a big, ugly, scarlet, and gray distraction?

Or that the city lost the tournament due in large part to attendance issues, and had finals that did not sell out an Akron-sized venue?

Or that articles like this appeared the last year Columbus hosted?

MID-AMERICAN CONFERENCE BASKETBALL TOURNAMENT HELD AT BATTELLE HALL MUST DRAW MORE FANS IF IT IS TO STAY IN COLS IN 1995 
Publication: Columbus Dispatch     Date: Sunday, March 6, 1994


This will always be the problem in Columbus. Unless that university is mysteriously flattened into a gigantic parking lot, no one in Columbus will ever care, and the attendance will be garbage... Only decent draw down there is the Clippers, because their season is during the summer (aka no OSU FB/BB competition). 

Cleveland actually embraces it, it was/still would be a sideshow to watching the B1G tournament on TV at the bar in Columbus.
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shabamon
3/13/2016 1:45 PM
TTT

I'm watching the Sun Belt championship from New Orleans between #1 Little Rock and #2 Louisiana-Monroe.

Absolutely pitiful crowd. Our midweek games would put it to shame. I guess everyone in the Southeast is busy watching the SEC final.
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