Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Elev/8
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BillyTheCat
5/3/2016 9:17 PM
TheBobcatBandit wrote:expand_more
I took two AP courses in high school. Scored a 3 and 4. Received 7 credits from Ohio.

Ohio will still accept a 3, many better schools will not

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/01/18/dartmouth-...

https://tams.unt.edu/admissions/debate
Last Edited: 5/3/2016 9:21:34 PM by BillyTheCat
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Alan Swank
5/4/2016 8:36 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
A "passing" score on the APtest is considered a 3, yet each institution establishes their own criteria for accepting the scores and issuing credit. In short the AP exam is a dinosaur I n today's world where some JC's do not give credit for a 3, and better schools "may" give credit for a 5. My child was one of 421 students to score a 5 on 5 or more AP exams, they received ZERO credit at their college, that was $570 to the college board and received zero credit. Their 2-5 schools would also not honor an AP score. In today's world a student should take CCP, receive actual college credit and not have to pay out of pocket.

Just my $.02
And I'll add my two cents - College Credit Plus in Ohio where the kids leave the high school to attend a local college is the greatest threat to our local high school system as we know it. If I was a school board member, I'd find the funds to get as many very good teachers as possible certified to offer CCP at the local high school. We can not afford this brain and financial drain in our schools.
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Jeff McKinney
5/4/2016 2:51 PM
Back to Elev8...I don't understand why we should stop recruiting a player we had been recruiting in his junior and senior seasons of high school simply because the kid and his parents made a choice for the kid to attend an Academy or prep school for a year--especially when the hs diploma was adequate for admission to Ohio and the prep school credential isn't needed. The parents are paying for this, not Ohio. I don't think attending an Academy should disqualify a kid from being recruited, even if the concept of the academy offends our scruples somehow.
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giacomo
5/4/2016 3:07 PM
RPBobcat, you make a good point about a freshman being 20 years old with all the games that are being played to hold a kid back. If all the kids did it, where would that leave it? It just reinforces that this is not an amateur endeavor. Nobody does this stuff except basketball and football.
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bobcat28
5/4/2016 8:22 PM
Regarding maturity and age. I can't tell you how many grade school kids are being held back a grade for sports purposes. Parents just say the kids are " not emotionally ready for the next grade" and keep them back. Its not just kindergarten either, its happening in 8th grade. Its sad its come to this but they all think their kids are in line for a scholarship. In 20 years 19-20 year old seniors will be the norm.
Last Edited: 5/4/2016 8:23:33 PM by bobcat28
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rpbobcat
5/5/2016 7:25 AM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
RPBobcat, you make a good point about a freshman being 20 years old with all the games that are being played to hold a kid back. If all the kids did it, where would that leave it? It just reinforces that this is not an amateur endeavor. Nobody does this stuff except basketball and football.
Its also an issue in wrestling,at least out in the East.

I don't about the high school redshirt,but a lot of wrestlers take a "prep year",then red shirt.
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Alan Swank
5/5/2016 9:04 AM
In Ohio from the OHSAA:

When a high school student (grades 9-12) turns 20
years of age, he/she becomes ineligible for interscholastic
athletics.
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BillyTheCat
5/5/2016 9:54 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
In Ohio from the OHSAA:

When a high school student (grades 9-12) turns 20
years of age, he/she becomes ineligible for interscholastic
athletics.
actually Alan, in Ohio a student athlete has 8 semesters of eligibility which begin from their first day of school their freshmen year, and run consecutively. The age limit is as follows: "High school students (grades 9-12) who turn 19 years of age prior to August 1, 2014, are ineligible for interscholastic
athletics." There is also an age limit in Jr. High in Ohio
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Alan Swank
5/5/2016 10:21 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
In Ohio from the OHSAA:

When a high school student (grades 9-12) turns 20
years of age, he/she becomes ineligible for interscholastic
athletics.
actually Alan, in Ohio a student athlete has 8 semesters of eligibility which begin from their first day of school their freshmen year, and run consecutively. The age limit is as follows: "High school students (grades 9-12) who turn 19 years of age prior to August 1, 2014, are ineligible for interscholastic
athletics." There is also an age limit in Jr. High in Ohio
The 8 semesters thing is correct. As for the 20 year old thing, that was taken directly from the OHSAA site this morning and which was revised may of last year:

http://ohsaa.org/eligibility/EligibilityGuideHS.pdf
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BillyTheCat
5/5/2016 10:39 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
In Ohio from the OHSAA:

When a high school student (grades 9-12) turns 20
years of age, he/she becomes ineligible for interscholastic
athletics.
actually Alan, in Ohio a student athlete has 8 semesters of eligibility which begin from their first day of school their freshmen year, and run consecutively. The age limit is as follows: "High school students (grades 9-12) who turn 19 years of age prior to August 1, 2014, are ineligible for interscholastic
athletics." There is also an age limit in Jr. High in Ohio
The 8 semesters thing is correct. As for the 20 year old thing, that was taken directly from the OHSAA site this morning and which was revised may of last year:

http://ohsaa.org/eligibility/EligibilityGuideHS.pdf
Yes that was changed this year, I was unaware of this, thank you Alan. The Aug 1st used to be a real hard line, but over the past 4-5 years there have been a growing list of exceptions arising from the increasing challenges of lawsuits. Looks like they relented. Interesting though, Jr. High eligibility remains a cut off of Aug. 1st at the age of 15, though they can compete at the High School level above that age if they are still in Jr. High. (Jr. High is also limited to 4 semesters)
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Alan Swank
5/5/2016 10:57 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
In Ohio from the OHSAA:

When a high school student (grades 9-12) turns 20
years of age, he/she becomes ineligible for interscholastic
athletics.
actually Alan, in Ohio a student athlete has 8 semesters of eligibility which begin from their first day of school their freshmen year, and run consecutively. The age limit is as follows: "High school students (grades 9-12) who turn 19 years of age prior to August 1, 2014, are ineligible for interscholastic
athletics." There is also an age limit in Jr. High in Ohio
The 8 semesters thing is correct. As for the 20 year old thing, that was taken directly from the OHSAA site this morning and which was revised may of last year:

http://ohsaa.org/eligibility/EligibilityGuideHS.pdf
Yes that was changed this year, I was unaware of this, thank you Alan. The Aug 1st used to be a real hard line, but over the past 4-5 years there have been a growing list of exceptions arising from the increasing challenges of lawsuits. Looks like they relented. Interesting though, Jr. High eligibility remains a cut off of Aug. 1st at the age of 15, though they can compete at the High School level above that age if they are still in Jr. High. (Jr. High is also limited to 4 semesters)
So was I and I almost posted the August 1 deadline myself. I remember years ago talking with friends who were thinking about holding back their sons from starting kindergarten and one could and one couldn't because of that August 1 deadline.
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OhioStunter
5/5/2016 2:54 PM
TheBobcatBandit wrote:expand_more
I took two AP courses in high school. Scored a 3 and 4. Received 7 credits from Ohio.
I'm one who benefited from an high school AP score transferring to a 5-hour credit at OU, but I'm against the AP structure.

Having a high school student with a 4.8 is just unnatural. I think we all know people that had 4.1 averages but weren't in the HS top ten...
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BillyTheCat
5/5/2016 4:18 PM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
I took two AP courses in high school. Scored a 3 and 4. Received 7 credits from Ohio.
I'm one who benefited from an high school AP score transferring to a 5-hour credit at OU, but I'm against the AP structure.

Having a high school student with a 4.8 is just unnatural. I think we all know people that had 4.1 averages but weren't in the HS top ten...
A local school actually uses a 6.0 scale for AP classes, and it's 4.0 scale is actually a 4.4 non weighted.
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Bobcatzblitz
5/5/2016 11:26 PM
Cant wait to see him progress the kid can BALL
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bornacatfan
5/6/2016 4:44 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
And I'll add my two cents - College Credit Plus in Ohio where the kids leave the high school to attend a local college is the greatest threat to our local high school system as we know it. If I was a school board member, I'd find the funds to get as many very good teachers as possible certified to offer CCP at the local high school. We can not afford this brain and financial drain in our schools.
your .02 is already in play here locally. My youngest is working hard in several courses at his local HS which will transfer. The teachers attended Ball State for further certifications to be able to teach the courses at that level. I thought it was going to be much different than the coursework we had available at UD and Wright but it seems to be on par and as difficult. http://www.delcomschools.org/dhs/udhs.html

Why is it that you feel leaving the HS to go to college is the scourge of the local HS schools? I was more tahn happy to start school in Chicago and CLEP out of several courses in English, Foreign Language and Psych.
Last Edited: 5/6/2016 6:02:18 PM by bornacatfan
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bornacatfan
5/6/2016 4:55 PM
bobcat28 wrote:expand_more
Regarding maturity and age. I can't tell you how many grade school kids are being held back a grade for sports purposes. Parents just say the kids are " not emotionally ready for the next grade" and keep them back. Its not just kindergarten either, its happening in 8th grade. Its sad its come to this but they all think their kids are in line for a scholarship. In 20 years 19-20 year old seniors will be the norm.
I had to laugh when I read this and remembered Tommy coming home from practice his sophomore year hostiley admonishing me...."why didn't you hold me back?" I asked why he was asking. "well because John Peckingpaugh's Bday is the same day and we celebrated both ours tonite but he is a year behind". I reminded him that I was living in Chicago at age 17 and the thought never entered my mind. I also asked him how it was to play with Jeff Teague and have played against Oden, Conley, Kevin Love, Eric Gordon, Dequan, Mike Beasley, Michael Jordan's son, OJ Mayo and about 50 others in the 06 and 07 age group the past 3 years...because you would not have if you had been in a younger age group.

I am not much of one to hold kids back to make them seem like superstars. OJ Mayo is older than Oden yet he competed against kids significantly younger than he. Talent catches age sooner or later and your mark you leave will be remembered that you consciously competed against kids younger than you . Parents and handlers doing that should be ashamed.
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Alan Swank
5/7/2016 10:27 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
And I'll add my two cents - College Credit Plus in Ohio where the kids leave the high school to attend a local college is the greatest threat to our local high school system as we know it. If I was a school board member, I'd find the funds to get as many very good teachers as possible certified to offer CCP at the local high school. We can not afford this brain and financial drain in our schools.


Why is it that you feel leaving the HS to go to college is the scourge of the local HS schools? I was more tahn happy to start school in Chicago and CLEP out of several courses in English, Foreign Language and Psych.
Good question Tom and in this case, I'm only speaking of Ohio because that is the only system of school funding that I'm intimately familiar with. In Ohio, the money follows the student. In other words, the local district bears the cost of those kids attending a public college including their books. Our local high school had over 150 kids out of a student body of 800 attend college this year and that number is expected to rise to 200 this coming school year. That's a large sum of money leaving the district and being transferred to colleges. This is a district that in FY 1995 got 44.69% of its funding from state tax dollars and 48.50 from local taxes. In 2012, the last year I could find figures, that ratio was 29.90 state and a whopping 62.27 local. In addition to having a millage rate twice the average of the other four county districts, we also pay a 1% earned income tax. There is only so much money that the local citizens can and are willing to pay. Reducing the net revenue of the district with CCP money flowing to colleges makes the burden even greater.

A second reason is based on the education provided. If 20% to 25% of your student body is taking one or more classes at a local college, what does that do to the student leadership in your building? Additionally, this exodus of students reduces class sizes and sometimes to the point of having such low enrollment in advanced classes that the district is forced to drop those classes. Fewer class choices leads to more students participating in CCP to get those advanced classes thus the cycle just perpetuates itself.

We should challenge each and every student to their ability level. CCP supposedly does that (but that's another topic). The easy solution to stem the tide of money and brains would be to get as many high school teachers certified to offer CCP classes in the local high school as possible. As I stated earlier, I would provide tuition help so that teachers could do that and would also make extra efforts to hire CCP certified teachers going forward.
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BillyTheCat
5/9/2016 8:35 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
And I'll add my two cents - College Credit Plus in Ohio where the kids leave the high school to attend a local college is the greatest threat to our local high school system as we know it. If I was a school board member, I'd find the funds to get as many very good teachers as possible certified to offer CCP at the local high school. We can not afford this brain and financial drain in our schools.
your .02 is already in play here locally. My youngest is working hard in several courses at his local HS which will transfer. The teachers attended Ball State for further certifications to be able to teach the courses at that level. I thought it was going to be much different than the coursework we had available at UD and Wright but it seems to be on par and as difficult. http://www.delcomschools.org/dhs/udhs.html

Why is it that you feel leaving the HS to go to college is the scourge of the local HS schools? I was more tahn happy to start school in Chicago and CLEP out of several courses in English, Foreign Language and Psych.
Borna, a local problem here is that OHIO University will not sign-off on local teachers to teach Dual/Credit classes, forcing all the interested students who seek the OHIO University credits to leave their local schools and head to campus. The issue here is when the student physically attends the college campus a large chunk of money follows v. when the student can get the class at the local H.S., only a very small processing fee follows. So, at the Athens campus the University is strong-arming the local schools and syphoning off students that would stay in the High School for the same credit.

I personally know three people who are adjunct facility at the main campus that the University will NOT issue dual credit credentials too, in the same subject/classes they are teaching on campus. (explain that to me). Now the kicker here is the branch campuses are partnering in abundance with local schools in the Dual Credit accreditation.
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David E Brightbill
5/9/2016 4:34 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
And I'll add my two cents - College Credit Plus in Ohio where the kids leave the high school to attend a local college is the greatest threat to our local high school system as we know it. If I was a school board member, I'd find the funds to get as many very good teachers as possible certified to offer CCP at the local high school. We can not afford this brain and financial drain in our schools.
your .02 is already in play here locally. My youngest is working hard in several courses at his local HS which will transfer. The teachers attended Ball State for further certifications to be able to teach the courses at that level. I thought it was going to be much different than the coursework we had available at UD and Wright but it seems to be on par and as difficult. http://www.delcomschools.org/dhs/udhs.html

Why is it that you feel leaving the HS to go to college is the scourge of the local HS schools? I was more tahn happy to start school in Chicago and CLEP out of several courses in English, Foreign Language and Psych.
Borna, a local problem here is that OHIO University will not sign-off on local teachers to teach Dual/Credit classes, forcing all the interested students who seek the OHIO University credits to leave their local schools and head to campus. The issue here is when the student physically attends the college campus a large chunk of money follows v. when the student can get the class at the local H.S., only a very small processing fee follows. So, at the Athens campus the University is strong-arming the local schools and syphoning off students that would stay in the High School for the same credit.

I personally know three people who are adjunct facility at the main campus that the University will NOT issue dual credit credentials too, in the same subject/classes they are teaching on campus. (explain that to me). Now the kicker here is the branch campuses are partnering in abundance with local schools in the Dual Credit accreditation.
Well I don't know about Athens but my grandson took an Ohio University Dual Enrollment course at his high school 1st semester this year.
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Alan Swank
5/9/2016 4:37 PM
David E Brightbill wrote:expand_more
And I'll add my two cents - College Credit Plus in Ohio where the kids leave the high school to attend a local college is the greatest threat to our local high school system as we know it. If I was a school board member, I'd find the funds to get as many very good teachers as possible certified to offer CCP at the local high school. We can not afford this brain and financial drain in our schools.
your .02 is already in play here locally. My youngest is working hard in several courses at his local HS which will transfer. The teachers attended Ball State for further certifications to be able to teach the courses at that level. I thought it was going to be much different than the coursework we had available at UD and Wright but it seems to be on par and as difficult. http://www.delcomschools.org/dhs/udhs.html

Why is it that you feel leaving the HS to go to college is the scourge of the local HS schools? I was more tahn happy to start school in Chicago and CLEP out of several courses in English, Foreign Language and Psych.
Borna, a local problem here is that OHIO University will not sign-off on local teachers to teach Dual/Credit classes, forcing all the interested students who seek the OHIO University credits to leave their local schools and head to campus. The issue here is when the student physically attends the college campus a large chunk of money follows v. when the student can get the class at the local H.S., only a very small processing fee follows. So, at the Athens campus the University is strong-arming the local schools and syphoning off students that would stay in the High School for the same credit.

I personally know three people who are adjunct facility at the main campus that the University will NOT issue dual credit credentials too, in the same subject/classes they are teaching on campus. (explain that to me). Now the kicker here is the branch campuses are partnering in abundance with local schools in the Dual Credit accreditation.
Well I don't know about Athens but my grandson took an Ohio University Dual Enrollment course at his high school 1st semester this year.
Which branch and what high school David? If what Billy says is true, I'd like to find out why the difference between different branches of the same university.
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David E Brightbill
5/9/2016 4:40 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
And I'll add my two cents - College Credit Plus in Ohio where the kids leave the high school to attend a local college is the greatest threat to our local high school system as we know it. If I was a school board member, I'd find the funds to get as many very good teachers as possible certified to offer CCP at the local high school. We can not afford this brain and financial drain in our schools.
your .02 is already in play here locally. My youngest is working hard in several courses at his local HS which will transfer. The teachers attended Ball State for further certifications to be able to teach the courses at that level. I thought it was going to be much different than the coursework we had available at UD and Wright but it seems to be on par and as difficult. http://www.delcomschools.org/dhs/udhs.html

Why is it that you feel leaving the HS to go to college is the scourge of the local HS schools? I was more tahn happy to start school in Chicago and CLEP out of several courses in English, Foreign Language and Psych.
Borna, a local problem here is that OHIO University will not sign-off on local teachers to teach Dual/Credit classes, forcing all the interested students who seek the OHIO University credits to leave their local schools and head to campus. The issue here is when the student physically attends the college campus a large chunk of money follows v. when the student can get the class at the local H.S., only a very small processing fee follows. So, at the Athens campus the University is strong-arming the local schools and syphoning off students that would stay in the High School for the same credit.

I personally know three people who are adjunct facility at the main campus that the University will NOT issue dual credit credentials too, in the same subject/classes they are teaching on campus. (explain that to me). Now the kicker here is the branch campuses are partnering in abundance with local schools in the Dual Credit accreditation.
Well I don't know about Athens but my grandson took an Ohio University Dual Enrollment course at his high school 1st semester this year.
Which branch and what high school David? If what Billy says is true, I'd like to find out why the difference between different branches of the same university.

He is at Fort Frye I am not sure whether the credit was issued through OUZ or main campus but either way it is OU credit hours.
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BillyTheCat
5/9/2016 6:37 PM
Again, branch campuses are easier to work with than the main campus
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bornacatfan
5/10/2016 11:11 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Again, branch campuses are easier to work with than the main campus
Not sure what that means in regard to his question regarding finance but I was curious enough to look at the costs


https://www.ohio.edu/chillicothe/download/loader.cfm?csMo...


https://www.ohio.edu/finance/bursar/upload/16-17_Athens.pdf
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BillyTheCat
5/10/2016 12:54 PM
I sent you a PM Borna
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bornacatfan
5/13/2016 12:56 PM
Sorry, been on the road for a bit here. Will look at the Private Message folder this sweekend.
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