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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Tail of two post-game press conferences...and mic drop.
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BillyTheCat
2/8/2017 8:46 PM
ohiocatfan1 wrote:expand_more
We lost by 10 and gave up 41 points to the nations leading scorer. We missed 3 buckets from absolute point-blank range at the rim (Carter, Taylor, KK). Those alone make it a 4-point game.
They also quit trying to score with 2 min to play
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Danny's Knee
2/8/2017 9:29 PM
I don't think anyone realized marcus keene was as good as he is .. best performance i've seen at the roundhouse on richland .. it was more entertaining than jameson's barrage of 3's

the dude is the real deal !!
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Urban Bobcat
2/8/2017 9:55 PM
That was some Harry Potter sh!t with Keene last night.
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RSBobcat
2/9/2017 12:25 AM
You could make a solid case that we lost the game in the paint. Keene is gonna score - that's a given. Missed bunnies, gave up O RB's in the multiples on several possessions. CMU also crashed the boards more - After their "smalls" 3 launches. We begin to retreat back down the court en masse as soon as ours are launched (except for the occasional DT - and hope he does not get a foul over reaching - but at least he goes for it)
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OU_Country
2/9/2017 9:49 AM
RSBobcat wrote:expand_more
You could make a solid case that we lost the game in the paint. Keene is gonna score - that's a given. Missed bunnies, gave up O RB's in the multiples on several possessions. CMU also crashed the boards more - After their "smalls" 3 launches. We begin to retreat back down the court en masse as soon as ours are launched (except for the occasional DT - and hope he does not get a foul over reaching - but at least he goes for it)
Agree with your solid case.


This part: "We begin to retreat back down the court en masse as soon as ours are launched"

Can someone with more technical basketball experience tell me why they consistently do this?

In terms of game tactics/strategy/approaches, this is something I don't understand as a regular approach. The other thing I notice compared to other teams I watch regularly, is that it seems like they rarely push the tempo when a numbers advantage presents itself for a fast break.
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OUVan
2/9/2017 10:17 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
This part: "We begin to retreat back down the court en masse as soon as ours are launched"

Can someone with more technical basketball experience tell me why they consistently do this?

In terms of game tactics/strategy/approaches, this is something I don't understand as a regular approach. The other thing I notice compared to other teams I watch regularly, is that it seems like they rarely push the tempo when a numbers advantage presents itself for a fast break.
I don't get that either. And even when we all don't head back on defense we don't work to get in better position. A lot of ball watching on shots. The only real exception is Doug Taylor. I understand not wanting to give up runouts but you don't need 4 guys to do that typically.
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GoCats105
2/9/2017 10:24 AM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
This part: "We begin to retreat back down the court en masse as soon as ours are launched"

Can someone with more technical basketball experience tell me why they consistently do this?

In terms of game tactics/strategy/approaches, this is something I don't understand as a regular approach. The other thing I notice compared to other teams I watch regularly, is that it seems like they rarely push the tempo when a numbers advantage presents itself for a fast break.
I don't get that either. And even when we all don't head back on defense we don't work to get in better position. A lot of ball watching on shots. The only real exception is Doug Taylor. I understand not wanting to give up runouts but you don't need 4 guys to do that typically.
I'll second Van's assessment of this. When I was playing, it was kind of a rule we had that if you were above the foul-line extended then you retreated back to play defense. If you were below it you did your best to attack the offensive glass. It should never be the whole team.

The problem with Ohio I've seen is that they take so many threes that can sometimes lead to long rebounds and runouts. If it's a deep corner shot or a wing three and the rebound goes to the opposite side of the glass (which it is more than likely to do because of trajectory and physics), the shooter is the most vulnerable guy to give up something on D on the other end.
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Bobcat1998
2/9/2017 1:04 PM
Getting back to the press conference...It does seem as though Jaaron is annoyed by something. I don't feel like athletes deserve to be coddled automatically but a kid like Jaaron who is stepping up big time and has stepped up big time, needs to be treated like gold since technically he can leave us if he graduates this Spring. I could see Matta, Xavier, Cincy, Dayton...someone bigger even..swooping in to rent him for a year. We would still be solid next year but with him I believe, barring a Tone-like injury, we can be big time with the losses other teams are going to have to graduation.
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GroverBall
2/9/2017 2:19 PM
Bobcat1998 wrote:expand_more
Getting back to the press conference...It does seem as though Jaaron is annoyed by something.
Well, sure. "something"? That something was a loss and because the guy he and Jordy were trying to guard was unconscious.
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ohiocatfan1
2/9/2017 3:41 PM
I still think that until we have 5 guys on the floor TOTALLY committed to playing defense we will never get to where we all want to be. We just have far too many lapses on the defensive end.
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OUVan
2/9/2017 3:51 PM
ohiocatfan1 wrote:expand_more
I still think that until we have 5 guys on the floor TOTALLY committed to playing defense we will never get to where we all want to be. We just have far too many lapses on the defensive end.
I would agree with this. All it takes is one. We have improved greatly but we are far too inconsistent on the defensive end. Losing Tony didn't help either.
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ohiocatfan1
2/9/2017 4:06 PM
To compete night in and night out a team cannot take a single defensive possession "off". You have to bring it every trip down floor. Of course any team gives up some easy buckets and offensive rebounds but how good could we be if we just cleaned these things up a little bit?
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bshot44
2/9/2017 11:45 PM
Problem is that it's not just one or two possessions that defense disappears...it's multiple in a row.

During CMU 28-8 run, they scored on 11 straight possessions.

Look back at WMU 19-4 run to close the game. 0 stops in last 5 mins.

And that bad defense is doubly hurtful when on the other end it's a quick 3ptr miss and a :10 possession.

They have to figure out how to better handle these dreadful spurts that continue to cost them.

Saul just doesn't call timeouts or switch defenses. Not sure that's the way. He alluded he has to change. I agree. This pattern ain't working
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OU_Country
2/10/2017 9:28 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Problem is that it's not just one or two possessions that defense disappears...it's multiple in a row.

During CMU 28-8 run, they scored on 11 straight possessions.

Look back at WMU 19-4 run to close the game. 0 stops in last 5 mins.

And that bad defense is doubly hurtful when on the other end it's a quick 3ptr miss and a :10 possession.

They have to figure out how to better handle these dreadful spurts that continue to cost them.

Saul just doesn't call timeouts or switch defenses. Not sure that's the way. He alluded he has to change. I agree. This pattern ain't working

One of the consequences of recent rule changes is coaches not calling TO's during runs as much. As you may recall, the NCAA took away one coaches timeout a couple years ago, along with blending the media timeouts if a coach calls a timeout. That absolutely has an effect on when coaches call time outs.

I watched UC play Central Florida a couple nights ago, and by the time the under 12 or 16 came in the second half, UCF was down to one time out. Coach Dawkins had to let the run go or have no time outs left for the last 12 minutes.

I'm not suggesting Saul has run into similar scenarios because I haven't really paid attention to know. But it has to come into play sometimes, because every coach seems to want 1-2 TO's left in the last 5-6 minutes.
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GoCats105
2/10/2017 9:50 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Problem is that it's not just one or two possessions that defense disappears...it's multiple in a row.

During CMU 28-8 run, they scored on 11 straight possessions.

Look back at WMU 19-4 run to close the game. 0 stops in last 5 mins.

And that bad defense is doubly hurtful when on the other end it's a quick 3ptr miss and a :10 possession.

They have to figure out how to better handle these dreadful spurts that continue to cost them.

Saul just doesn't call timeouts or switch defenses. Not sure that's the way. He alluded he has to change. I agree. This pattern ain't working

One of the consequences of recent rule changes is coaches not calling TO's during runs as much. As you may recall, the NCAA took away one coaches timeout a couple years ago, along with blending the media timeouts if a coach calls a timeout. That absolutely has an effect on when coaches call time outs.

I watched UC play Central Florida a couple nights ago, and by the time the under 12 or 16 came in the second half, UCF was down to one time out. Coach Dawkins had to let the run go or have no time outs left for the last 12 minutes.

I'm not suggesting Saul has run into similar scenarios because I haven't really paid attention to know. But it has to come into play sometimes, because every coach seems to want 1-2 TO's left in the last 5-6 minutes.
Since the rule change, I've noticed coaches always try to get as far as they can into the 1st half without using a timeout. But they have to use at least one or they lose it, which is why you'll always see a coach who is up big going into the half use the timeout right before the half. If you're going into the second half with three instead of two or one, that's what you're looking for.
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OU_Country
2/10/2017 9:58 AM
FWIW, I am not, and was not a fan of removing the fifth time out.
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giacomo
2/10/2017 4:24 PM
You may recall that John Wooden rarely called a timeout. You can argue that he had the horses and didn't need to call that many. However, doesn't a timeout signify to the other team that you are in trouble? I don't have any data to back it up, but I don't think they matter that much unless you have a tie game at the end and you want to set up a play. But shouldn't your guys already know what should be run?
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bshot44
2/10/2017 5:22 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Problem is that it's not just one or two possessions that defense disappears...it's multiple in a row.

During CMU 28-8 run, they scored on 11 straight possessions.

Look back at WMU 19-4 run to close the game. 0 stops in last 5 mins.

And that bad defense is doubly hurtful when on the other end it's a quick 3ptr miss and a :10 possession.

They have to figure out how to better handle these dreadful spurts that continue to cost them.

Saul just doesn't call timeouts or switch defenses. Not sure that's the way. He alluded he has to change. I agree. This pattern ain't working

One of the consequences of recent rule changes is coaches not calling TO's during runs as much. As you may recall, the NCAA took away one coaches timeout a couple years ago, along with blending the media timeouts if a coach calls a timeout. That absolutely has an effect on when coaches call time outs.

I watched UC play Central Florida a couple nights ago, and by the time the under 12 or 16 came in the second half, UCF was down to one time out. Coach Dawkins had to let the run go or have no time outs left for the last 12 minutes.

I'm not suggesting Saul has run into similar scenarios because I haven't really paid attention to know. But it has to come into play sometimes, because every coach seems to want 1-2 TO's left in the last 5-6 minutes.
I understand that timeout rule changes have impacted the game....but not sure that has a real impact on Saul's style. He seems to be a "play through it" coach and that style has burnt Ohio quite a few times this year.

He even said in his last presser something needs to change.

He can't continue to sit idly by watching his defense give up these 15-20 point runs. Who cares if he's wasting a time out....something needs to be done to slow the momentum.

I'd rather have 0 timeouts in the last 5 minutes than watch us go from 8 up to 12 down in the matter of 3 mins.

It happens too much.
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