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Topic: How good was the MAC?
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bobcatsquared
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Posted: 2/1/2025 11:15 PM
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With Wally in Millet today and on the ESPN+ broadcast at halftime, it brought back memories of his teams in Oxford and how good MAC basketball as a whole once was.

Wally came to Miami from a small high school in New York state where he averaged 36.6 p and 15.9 r as a senior before becoming a first-team all-american as a Miami senior. He then went on to an 11-yr NBA career.

But he might have been the 3rd biggest name in his 1995 recruiting class at Miami. He was joined by 6-4 Damon Frierson, Indiana's Mr. Basketball at Indianapolis Ben Davis H.S., and PG Rob Mestas, Minnesota's Mr. Basketball. They were joined a year or two later by Ira Newble, who lasted almost 10 years in the NBA.

There are similar success stories in the 1980s and 1990s at EMU, Ball St., Ohio, Kent St. And I'm sure older fans can go back to the 1960s and 1970s with similar examples.
Last Edited: 2/1/2025 11:17:12 PM by bobcatsquared
GraffZ06
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Posted: 2/2/2025 2:06 AM
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In the stretch from the 1985-86 season to the 1999-2000 season, stretching 15 years, the MAC had 12 players who would go on to play at least 90 games in the NBA. 14 guys if you want to include out to 2002-03.

Ron Harper - Miami, 1986 - 1009 games
Dan Majerle - CMU, 1988 - 955 games
Grant Long - EMU, 1988 - 1003 games
Kenny Battle - NIU/Illinois, 1989 - 134 games
Snoopy Graham - Ohio, 1989 - 179 games
Dave Jamerson - Ohio, 1990 - 90 games
Gary Trent - Ohio, 1995 - 506 games
Antonio Daniels - BG, 1997 - 871 games
Ira Newble - Miami, 1997 - 380 games
Bonzi Wells - Ball St, 1998 - 591 games
Earl Boykins - EMU, 1998 - 652 games
Wally Szczerbiak - Miami, 1999 - 651 games
Keith McLeod - BG, 2002 - 200 games
Chris Kaman - CMU, 2003 - 735 games

The MAC has had a total of 2 players reach this mark ever since.

Richaun Holmes from BG in 2015 and Abdel Nader from NIU-Iowa St in 2016.

Definitely a golden era for MAC hoops that we're likely never to see again.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/2/2025 9:43 AM
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Two best MAC players to ever reach the NBA:
Nate Thurmond< BGSU
Hal Greer, Marshall
CatsUp
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Posted: 2/2/2025 10:15 AM
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The Ice Man, George Gervin, EMU 70-72.
CatsUp
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Posted: 2/2/2025 10:20 AM
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Dan Roundfield, CMU. Not heard in conversation much but he was a load. I know he at least played with the Atlanta Hawks. He was in school when I was as I recall.
shabamon
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Posted: 2/2/2025 10:43 AM
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Here's a not so fun thing to think about that I sometimes think about. What past MAC greats, who if you time traveled them to this era, would stay in the MAC? Who would transfer "up"?
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 2/2/2025 12:11 PM
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How about the teams at Kent St. under Gary Waters and then Stan Heath around the turn of the century? The Flashes averaged 25 wins between the 98-99 season through the 01-02 season, culminating with a 30-6 season that included NCAA tourney wins v. Ok St., Bama and Pitt before losing to Indiana one game away from a Final 4 appearance.

I remember an incredible 3-guard backcourt of Huffman, Mitchell and Shaw; NFL tight end great Antonio Gates and future NBA 7-footer John Edwards.
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 2/4/2025 9:49 AM
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Perhaps the best game played by a MAC team in the NCAA tournament was actually a loss. The 1990 UNLV Rebels went 35-5 and won the title by beating 3 teams in the tourney by 30 points, including Duke in the championship game. However, Ball St. gave them their biggest challenge, falling just short in the 3rd round, 69-67. Ball St. had defeated Oregon St. and Louisville to reach the regional semis.

Check out the game here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGuDDIoGMlU

Ball St. went 26-7 that year under coach Hunsaker after the great Rick Majerus led them to a 29-3 record the year before. The Cards went 21-10, 24-9 and 26-8 the three seasons after the 1990 run.

The 1990 team was led by the high-flying Chandler Thompson and as good a pair of big men the MAC has had in Paris McCurdy and Curtis Kidd, two kids out of Detroit who transferred in from Arkansas Little Rock, if my memory is correct.

Does the MAC get athletic, high-flyers like Thompson any more? Check out this putback from that UNLV game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGFjCBzM5qk
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 2/4/2025 4:01 PM
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bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
Perhaps the best game played by a MAC team in the NCAA tournament was actually a loss. The 1990 UNLV Rebels went 35-5 and won the title by beating 3 teams in the tourney by 30 points, including Duke in the championship game. However, Ball St. gave them their biggest challenge, falling just short in the 3rd round, 69-67. Ball St. had defeated Oregon St. and Louisville to reach the regional semis.

Check out the game here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGuDDIoGMlU

Ball St. went 26-7 that year under coach Hunsaker after the great Rick Majerus led them to a 29-3 record the year before. The Cards went 21-10, 24-9 and 26-8 the three seasons after the 1990 run.

The 1990 team was led by the high-flying Chandler Thompson and as good a pair of big men the MAC has had in Paris McCurdy and Curtis Kidd, two kids out of Detroit who transferred in from Arkansas Little Rock, if my memory is correct.

Does the MAC get athletic, high-flyers like Thompson any more? Check out this putback from that UNLV game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGFjCBzM5qk
Remember that game ver well.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 2/4/2025 6:22 PM
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Going back a bit further you had Steve Mix at Toledo and some guy on the cover of Sports Illustrated from OU.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 2/4/2025 6:23 PM
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shabamon wrote:expand_more
Here's a not so fun thing to think about that I sometimes think about. What past MAC greats, who if you time traveled them to this era, would stay in the MAC? Who would transfer "up"?
And that my good man is what's ruined college basketball for fans of schools like those in the MAC.
Bobcat1996
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Posted: 2/4/2025 6:53 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Here's a not so fun thing to think about that I sometimes think about. What past MAC greats, who if you time traveled them to this era, would stay in the MAC? Who would transfer "up"?
And that my good man is what's ruined college basketball for fans of schools like those in the MAC.
UNLV and Tark's Running Rebels struggled with Ball St. I remember it well. Antonio Gates, and Huffman also were some good teams at Kent.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 2/4/2025 7:38 PM
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Bobcat1996 wrote:expand_more
Here's a not so fun thing to think about that I sometimes think about. What past MAC greats, who if you time traveled them to this era, would stay in the MAC? Who would transfer "up"?
And that my good man is what's ruined college basketball for fans of schools like those in the MAC.
UNLV and Tark's Running Rebels struggled with Ball St. I remember it well. Antonio Gates, and Huffman also were some good teams at Kent.
And then there was Gates career in the NFL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gates
oubobcatjohn
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Posted: 2/4/2025 8:03 PM
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MAC also played much stronger non-conference schedules back then too. They played lots of games with the Big Ten.
Old Zone
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Posted: 2/4/2025 9:01 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Two best MAC players to ever reach the NBA:
Nate Thurmond< BGSU
Hal Greer, Marshall
And throw in Wayne Embry
giacomo
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Posted: 2/4/2025 9:03 PM
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shabamon wrote:expand_more
Here's a not so fun thing to think about that I sometimes think about. What past MAC greats, who if you time traveled them to this era, would stay in the MAC? Who would transfer "up"?
Every kid playing thinks they are better than where they’re at. The kid at Marietta thinks he should be at Ohio. The kid at Miami thinks he should be at Ohio State. The kid at South Carolina thinks he should be at Duke. The NIL and transfer portal merely exploits that reality.
Old Zone
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Posted: 2/4/2025 9:07 PM
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Doubt whether another MAC team will ever be ranked #5 in the country at any time in any season, like OUr 1969-1970 team was.
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 2/4/2025 9:35 PM
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Great point, Old Zone. Ohio started that season with 4 consecutive wins, all against Big 10 teams. Beat #3 Purdue by a point in the Convo. Unfortunately, that's the Ohio season that Austin Carr ended with 61 pts in Notre Dame's 112-82 defeat of Ohio.
Last Edited: 2/4/2025 9:38:31 PM by bobcatsquared
SBH
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Posted: 2/4/2025 10:30 PM
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Basketball intramurals used to be filled with more talent, too. I remember one team that had 5 guys who could have started for...Miami-Hamilton? The Crazy something.
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Posted: 2/5/2025 11:09 AM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Here's a not so fun thing to think about that I sometimes think about. What past MAC greats, who if you time traveled them to this era, would stay in the MAC? Who would transfer "up"?
And that my good man is what's ruined college basketball for fans of schools like those in the MAC.
Yeah, call it sour grapes or whatever you want, but my interest has been waning ever since the big money has conspired to kill mid-majors. When I was in school the reward for landing a recruit like Gary Trent was a few years of national relevance, winning the Pre-Season NIT, getting ranked in the top 20, etc. Yeah the MAC still got screwed in the tournament with seeding and lack of slots, but when they got in they could play with anyone.

Today, the reward for landing a recruit like Mark Sears is a kick in the balls via transfer after you spend a season or two teaching them the college game. Sustainable excellence may be possible within the conference but it is certainly not possible for a MAC team to be nationally relevant ever again.

I let my season tickets slide. I used to pay for ESPN+ games. Now I look at scores and maybe catch a game if it's on network TV. I still care but caring deeply like I used to is an incredible waste of energy.
Bobcat1996
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Posted: 2/5/2025 3:14 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Here's a not so fun thing to think about that I sometimes think about. What past MAC greats, who if you time traveled them to this era, would stay in the MAC? Who would transfer "up"?
And that my good man is what's ruined college basketball for fans of schools like those in the MAC.
UNLV and Tark's Running Rebels struggled with Ball St. I remember it well. Antonio Gates, and Huffman also were some good teams at Kent.
And then there was Gates career in the NFL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gates
As great as Gates was in basketball at Kent, he was even better in the NFL. Four times named first team All Pro. He was a great TE for the Chargers.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/5/2025 4:03 PM
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Old Zone wrote:expand_more
Two best MAC players to ever reach the NBA:
Nate Thurmond, BGSU
Hal Greer, Marshall
And throw in Wayne Embry
I substracted a few points from Mr. Embry for the poor choice he made when deciding which MAC schools to attend.
Last Edited: 2/5/2025 4:04:51 PM by OhioCatFan
Old Zone
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Posted: 2/6/2025 10:53 AM
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bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
Great point, Old Zone. Ohio started that season with 4 consecutive wins, all against Big 10 teams. Beat #3 Purdue by a point in the Convo. Unfortunately, that's the Ohio season that Austin Carr ended with 61 pts in Notre Dame's 112-82 defeat of Ohio.
That was a Rick Mount led team that was ranked 3rd at the time. We also beat Northwestern, The, and Indiana on the road to begin the season, and lost at Wisconsin by 3 in February. I was at the Purdue game and the one in Columbus. I must also confess to seeing the Austin Carr show in Dayton. Remember he did that without a 3-point line and, incredibly, that still stands as a record for most points in an NCAA tournament game. OUr place in history.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/6/2025 11:15 AM
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Old Zone wrote:expand_more
Great point, Old Zone. Ohio started that season with 4 consecutive wins, all against Big 10 teams. Beat #3 Purdue by a point in the Convo. Unfortunately, that's the Ohio season that Austin Carr ended with 61 pts in Notre Dame's 112-82 defeat of Ohio.
That was a Rick Mount led team that was ranked 3rd at the time. We also beat Northwestern, The, and Indiana on the road to begin the season, and lost at Wisconsin by 3 in February. I was at the Purdue game and the one in Columbus. I must also confess to seeing the Austin Carr show in Dayton. Remember he did that without a 3-point line and, incredibly, that still stands as a record for most points in an NCAA tournament game. OUr place in history.
I was at the Purdue game, also. One of the things I remember about it was that Snyder played a diamond and one defense for much of the game, in which four guys played a zone with one man (can't remember who it was) assigned to play Mount one-on-one. It worked well and kept Mount below his season average, and his teammates were not able to score enough to make up the difference.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 2/6/2025 12:19 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Great point, Old Zone. Ohio started that season with 4 consecutive wins, all against Big 10 teams. Beat #3 Purdue by a point in the Convo. Unfortunately, that's the Ohio season that Austin Carr ended with 61 pts in Notre Dame's 112-82 defeat of Ohio.
That was a Rick Mount led team that was ranked 3rd at the time. We also beat Northwestern, The, and Indiana on the road to begin the season, and lost at Wisconsin by 3 in February. I was at the Purdue game and the one in Columbus. I must also confess to seeing the Austin Carr show in Dayton. Remember he did that without a 3-point line and, incredibly, that still stands as a record for most points in an NCAA tournament game. OUr place in history.
I was at the Purdue game, also. One of the things I remember about it was that Snyder played a diamond and one defense for much of the game, in which four guys played a zone with one man (can't remember who it was) assigned to play Mount one-on-one. It worked well and kept Mount below his season average, and his teammates were not able to score enough to make up the difference.
Recalling my student days - '63-'67 - I think OU hosted and beat Purdue when it had Dave Schellhase.
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