Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Thoughts on this season and on the future
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allen
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Posted: 3/12/2017 8:29 PM
You don't have to yank a kids schollie, there are grant and aid programs for players with injuries. In college basketball, you only have 13 scholarships and you have to use them. If you have three kids riding the pine with injuries than you work with the AD and make sure that you have contingency aid in place. Heck, if you want to be a real servant leader than you pay for their school. I don't believe that Harley was too injured to play, I believe that he just didn't fit into what Saul was trying to do. Wadley has been through a lot, why bring him back just to ride the pine? I don't even want to speculate, I am not the executive, if this were a case study I would have said to let him go. See you can keep him and make the transfer wire headlines or give drew crabtree a schollie (kudos) because you see another coach do it. That is all fine and dandy, but your number one job is to win basketball games. Coaches wear many hats, but they are hired to win. SP's number one job is not to be a diplomat or kiss the babies. You have to create a good atmosphere and be transformational like the Patriots. They take players who have had an issue or two and place them in a winning culture where players are depended on. They make them watch video, they ask for all their players input, they even cheat if they have too. In the army, they used to say if you are not cheating, you are not trying. I DID NOT AGREE with that, but I respected the fact that they were willing to do what they had to, to save or prevent a comrade from falling.
Last Edited: 3/13/2017 1:25:02 AM by allen
OU_Country
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Posted: 3/12/2017 8:44 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
You don't have to yank a kids salary, there are grant and aid for players with injuries. In basket, you only have 13 scholarships and you have to use them. If you have three kids riding the pine with injuries than you work with the AD and make sure that you have contingency aid in place. Heck, you want to be a real servant leader than you pay for their school. I don't believe that Harley was too injured to play, I believe that they just don't fit into what Saul is trying to do. Easley has been through a lot, why bring him back to ride the pine. I don't even want to speculate, I am not the executive, if this were a case study I would have said to let him go. See you can keep him and make the transfer wire headlines or give drew crabtree a schollie (kudos) because you see another coach do it. That is all fine and dandy, but your number one job is to win basketball games. Coaches where many hats, but they are hired to win. SP's number one job is not to be a diplomat or kiss the babies. You have to create a good atmosphere and be transformational like the Patriots. They take players who have had an issue or two and put them in a winning culture where players are depended on. They make them watch video, they ask for all their input, they even cheat if they have too. In the army, they used to say if you are not cheating, you are not trying. I DID NOT AGREE with that, but I respected the fact that they were willing to do what they had to, to save or prevent a comrade from falling.
I didn't know we gave kids "salary" for playing "basket". And who is "Easley"? And what hats is Saul "whereing"?

And why are we comparing Ohio Basketball and college basketball to the Patriots?
allen
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Posted: 3/12/2017 9:10 PM
Sorry my iPhone spits words out. We don't pay players, we give them scholllies and stipends. You don't let kids sit on a schollies for three years if they can't play. You find alternative solutions
FlashGary
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Posted: 3/12/2017 9:54 PM
Assuming one additional scholarship opens up, which I believe two actually will, I see three ways to add the "big" we need so that Jason Carter will only have to defend the post when two other players are in foul trouble: Recruit a high school senior or a junior college player. And thirdly, the most intriguing option: Bring in a graduated player who still has a year of eligibility. I would think there may be some pretty good post players out there who could look at our roster and see themselves fitting in nicely in Antonio Campbell's spot on a pretty good team. Perhaps we could attract a player that was a backup from a bigger school who could have been starter in the MAC. Just thinkin'.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 3/13/2017 1:16 AM
Re the idea that one who disagees with another's post should 'go lay an egg'--that's weird. I like it.

I'd love for us to pick up a scooter speed guard..probably a small guy..who has jet speed and ability to penetrate like the Celtic's Thomas or CMU's Keene. I know that guys like that are very rare. But it would be great to have a guy like that.
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Posted: 3/13/2017 1:34 AM
FlashGary wrote:expand_more
Assuming one additional scholarship opens up, which I believe two actually will, I see three ways to add the "big" we need so that Jason Carter will only have to defend the post when two other players are in foul trouble: Recruit a high school senior or a junior college player. And thirdly, the most intriguing option: Bring in a graduated player who still has a year of eligibility. I would think there may be some pretty good post players out there who could look at our roster and see themselves fitting in nicely in Antonio Campbell's spot on a pretty good team. Perhaps we could attract a player that was a backup from a bigger school who could have been starter in the MAC. Just thinkin'.
A good interior defender to take the pressure of Carter would help but we might have that with the freshman bigs walking in. A tall guard that creates matchup problems for the MAC transferring down would be a nice pickup. Have the ability to go to different looks at different points in the game to stay in control.
allen
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Posted: 3/13/2017 1:35 AM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Hopefully, two spots open and we can grab a big and a wing. Maybe we can bring in Lepear tiles. Coach SP will have to remedy the scoring droughts and paint defense. If he can get Dartis, Block and Carter to add to their games we will be dangerous. I think we should skip the post season and go to Europe this summer.
Hopefully, you don't have plans on being a basketball coach or athletic director in the near future. Hoping away two scholarship players to replace them isn't a great look.


Desperately need a JUCO big....hope it happens.
As I'm sure you're aware, there's not a spot open as things stand now. I'm sure you're also aware that it's highly unlikely that this coaching staff is going to seek out a JUCO player.
If you don't want to deal with reality than go an lay an egg. If Harley can't play, than we should find other grants for him to stay in school. If Wadley is really transferring than we should look at adding more talent. You definitely should not have any plans to be a coach. Go watch X Men or something, we are keeping it real in this thread. There is something called contingency planning or business continuity.
+1000000^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allen...what I've realized is that there are too many people on this board more concerned about players egos getting hurt over making the team better. Coaches get paid a ton of money to make very difficult decisions to make their programs go from average to good and good to great. Sometimes this means telling a player that you recruited who has been sitting on the bench for 2-3 year to perhaps explore other options if they want to actually play college basketball. And if that means replacing him with a better player that can help immediately, so be it. It's done all the time in the big boy world of college hoops. Some people can't handle the truth about it.

+1
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 3/13/2017 11:45 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Re the idea that one who disagees with another's post should 'go lay an egg'--that's weird. I like it.

I'd love for us to pick up a scooter speed guard..probably a small guy..who has jet speed and ability to penetrate like the Celtic's Thomas or CMU's Keene. I know that guys like that are very rare. But it would be great to have a guy like that.
I'm not sure I'd want a guy like Keene. I'd rather have a bigger guard who can actually play defense. Give me another Walt Offutt type player. I think that is what we are missing right now.

Someone like Steven Coleman minus the rapping career.
allen
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Posted: 3/13/2017 12:23 PM
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:expand_more
Re the idea that one who disagees with another's post should 'go lay an egg'--that's weird. I like it.

I'd love for us to pick up a scooter speed guard..probably a small guy..who has jet speed and ability to penetrate like the Celtic's Thomas or CMU's Keene. I know that guys like that are very rare. But it would be great to have a guy like that.
I'm not sure I'd want a guy like Keene. I'd rather have a bigger guard who can actually play defense. Give me another Walt Offutt type player. I think that is what we are missing right now.

Someone like Steven Coleman minus the rapping career.
Coleman was on his way. We do need an offutt and a Flomo
GoCats105
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Posted: 3/13/2017 1:16 PM
RE: future...

...from the Kent State post game presser Jaaron sounds like he's pretty motivated to get back to work. I know it's a long ways away, but my gut tells me he's not leaving.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu5a4bx6dZk

Interesting quote from Saul too. One that I think a lot of folks on this board should take into account. Starts around 11:10 of the video.

"If you didn't concede that this group exceeded expectations after what we went through (losing Tony), then you just don't like me or the team. That's all there is to it."

Saul's tone in a couple moments make me think he was choking up a bit. He cares about his players.
allen
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Posted: 3/13/2017 1:52 PM
I watched the press conference. Over and over the mantra was no excuses, then the comment that anybody that believes that the team did not exceed expectations without Tony does not like him or the team. We are all supporters of the team. I can't speak for others, but I like Saul, do I love his recruiting? no! Drop all the excuses, stop worshiping the players and criticizing the refs and than say in the same breath no excuses. It you go 5-20, we will still love the players go back to the lab and aim high for next year. You brought these kids to Ohio, go win a championship. Dartis is 20 years old, he did not play too many minutes, he had two off games, it is ok, he will be better next year if you don't worship him, but you coach him. You never question what a player does? stop. If his outside shot is not falling, you penetrate and get fouled, knock down some foul shots and get your rhythm back. Coach, you have the knowledge and charisma, let's win in the living room and lets get jaaron and the guys a BERTH to next years tourney. I agree that some calls should have went our way, but that will happen in every game. I WANT TO REITERATE, great job guys, come back next year and get it done. Go Cats
OU_Country
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Posted: 3/13/2017 3:12 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
I watched the press conference. Over and over the mantra was no excuses, then the comment that anybody that believes that the team did not exceed expectations without Tony does not like him or the team. We are all supporters of the team. I can't speak for others, but I like Saul, do I love his recruiting? no! Drop all the excuses, stop worshiping the players and criticizing the refs and than say in the same breath no excuses. It you go 5-20, we will still love the players go back to the lab and aim high for next year. You brought these kids to Ohio, go win a championship. Dartis is 20 years old, he did not play too many minutes, he had two off games, it is ok, he will be better next year if you don't worship him, but you coach him. You never question what a player does? stop. If his outside shot is not falling, you penetrate and get fouled, knock down some foul shots and get your rhythm back. Coach, you have the knowledge and charisma, let's win in the living room and lets get jaaron and the guys a BERTH to next years tourney. I agree that some calls should have went our way, but that will happen in every game. I WANT TO REITERATE, great job guys, come back next year and get it done. Go Cats

Have you considered not talking or typing for one day?
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 3/13/2017 4:55 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
I watched the press conference. Over and over the mantra was no excuses, then the comment that anybody that believes that the team did not exceed expectations without Tony does not like him or the team. We are all supporters of the team. I can't speak for others, but I like Saul, do I love his recruiting? no! Drop all the excuses, stop worshiping the players and criticizing the refs and than say in the same breath no excuses. It you go 5-20, we will still love the players go back to the lab and aim high for next year. You brought these kids to Ohio, go win a championship. Dartis is 20 years old, he did not play too many minutes, he had two off games, it is ok, he will be better next year if you don't worship him, but you coach him. You never question what a player does? stop. If his outside shot is not falling, you penetrate and get fouled, knock down some foul shots and get your rhythm back. Coach, you have the knowledge and charisma, let's win in the living room and lets get jaaron and the guys a BERTH to next years tourney. I agree that some calls should have went our way, but that will happen in every game. I WANT TO REITERATE, great job guys, come back next year and get it done. Go Cats

Have you considered not talking or typing for one day?
Or at the very least not typing for a couple hours.

I'd actually even settle for a couple of paragraph breaks at this point.
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Posted: 3/13/2017 5:43 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
RE: future...

...from the Kent State post game presser Jaaron sounds like he's pretty motivated to get back to work. I know it's a long ways away, but my gut tells me he's not leaving.
Jaaron potentially leaving is my greatest fear. If he takes a grad transfer, this is not going to be a strong team next year. With him, we could be special.

Fingers, toes and everything else crossed that we see Jaaron in a Bobcat jersey come mid-November!
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Posted: 3/14/2017 10:38 AM
Count me as one of the excited ones for next year and beyond.

- Returning the top PG in the MAC

- Returning the top young big in the MAC

- Returning 4 players that were starting at the end of the year

- Returning 7 of the top 8 players who were seeing significant minutes at the end of the year

- A seemingly talented trio of freshmen coming in for 2017

- Only 2 rotation players will be lost to graduation after next year, so we will still have 5 of our top 8 guys from this year two years from now.
FlashGary
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Posted: 3/19/2017 11:45 PM
I thought that perhaps two scholarships would open up. Now there might be three...
GoCats105
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Posted: 3/20/2017 10:42 AM
Saul's former colleague Tim Miles losing one of his guys to grad transfer too. Another state of Wisconsin recruit. Had some pretty good offers out of high school.

http://www.cornnation.com/2017/3/13/14918402/nick-fuller-...

http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/nick-fuller
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Posted: 3/20/2017 11:00 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
1) Do we, at Ohio University operate in a way where we effectively yank a kid's scholarship if he's been on the bench for a couple years? I'm not aware that we do. It might be done in the ACC (for example) - we aren't the ACC.
It might help you in the short term but it's a sure-fire way for you to stop getting recruits.
OUVan
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Posted: 3/20/2017 11:52 AM
I'm not even sure we need these openings to go to kids that will play next year. We have 11 scholarship athletes and the only position that we really have a pressing need for IMO is backup PG. And Butler might be the answer there but I'm not sure.

Bigs - Carter, Taylor, Vander Plas, Gareri, Dozier
Wings - Block, Laster
Guards - Simmons, Dartis, Butler, Gollon

Three of those guys are not going to see the court. The big questions are how much Doug Taylor and Jordan Dartis improve IMO. I throw Dartis in there because he's got to improve on putting the ball on the floor and creating his shot. If he can work that into his game like Nick did his last year then he is going to be tough to defend. I think Taylor is very close and just needs to get a little bit better on his low post moves.

So unless we can get an absolute stud I say hold onto those scholarships until next year or possibly use them on a graduate transfer.
OU_Country
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Posted: 3/20/2017 12:38 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
I'm not even sure we need these openings to go to kids that will play next year. We have 11 scholarship athletes and the only position that we really have a pressing need for IMO is backup PG. And Butler might be the answer there but I'm not sure.

Bigs - Carter, Taylor, Vander Plas, Gareri, Dozier
Wings - Block, Laster
Guards - Simmons, Dartis, Butler, Gollon

Three of those guys are not going to see the court. The big questions are how much Doug Taylor and Jordan Dartis improve IMO. I throw Dartis in there because he's got to improve on putting the ball on the floor and creating his shot. If he can work that into his game like Nick did his last year then he is going to be tough to defend. I think Taylor is very close and just needs to get a little bit better on his low post moves.

So unless we can get an absolute stud I say hold onto those scholarships until next year or possibly use them on a graduate transfer.
I'm with you on PG pending Butler's game. I am in favor of a grad transfer if they fit the bill as a guy that can play right away. I don't like the idea of building a team that way, but if you lose two guys that essentially play the three, it makes sense to find someone who can fill those shoes if possible. If there are in fact two scholarships open, I hold one for the fall. Or, a nice use of one of those two (assuming two) might be a transfer PG that would sit next year.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 1:19 PM
I have to believe that with the storm of Wad, Khari and Culver leaving that Saul and staff know something about someone or some people. They perhaps have replacements already.
OU_Country
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Posted: 3/20/2017 1:34 PM
Bobcat1998 wrote:expand_more
I have to believe that with the storm of Wad, Khari and Culver leaving that Saul and staff know something about someone or some people. They perhaps have replacements already.
I have no doubt about your comment when it comes to at least two of the three. Culver is still surprising to me. Also agreed, they've probably had guys targeted.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 1:42 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
I'm not even sure we need these openings to go to kids that will play next year. We have 11 scholarship athletes and the only position that we really have a pressing need for IMO is backup PG. And Butler might be the answer there but I'm not sure.

Bigs - Carter, Taylor, Vander Plas, Gareri, Dozier
Wings - Block, Laster
Guards - Simmons, Dartis, Butler, Gollon

Three of those guys are not going to see the court. The big questions are how much Doug Taylor and Jordan Dartis improve IMO. I throw Dartis in there because he's got to improve on putting the ball on the floor and creating his shot. If he can work that into his game like Nick did his last year then he is going to be tough to defend. I think Taylor is very close and just needs to get a little bit better on his low post moves.

So unless we can get an absolute stud I say hold onto those scholarships until next year or possibly use them on a graduate transfer.
I'm with you on PG pending Butler's game. I am in favor of a grad transfer if they fit the bill as a guy that can play right away. I don't like the idea of building a team that way, but if you lose two guys that essentially play the three, it makes sense to find someone who can fill those shoes if possible. If there are in fact two scholarships open, I hold one for the fall. Or, a nice use of one of those two (assuming two) might be a transfer PG that would sit next year.
I've always been under the assumption that Butler was going to come in and play PG primarily after Jaaron leaves, but more of a combo his Freshman year. He comes from a system that shares the ball a lot and obviously knows how to lead a team to wins (state championship this year). If Jaaron takes him under his wing for a year, while also gaining some valuable PT alongside, he'll be ready to go Sophomore year.
FlashGary
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Posted: 3/20/2017 5:35 PM
Recruiting situations always are fluid based on unexpected changes within a program. Hence, with Rodney Culver leaving, perhaps incoming freshman Zach Butler-also an athletic slasher--can take his spot, with Coach Phillips looking to bring in a certified 2017 high school point guard recruit. The 6-4 Butler has length, so this really could end up working in Ohio's favor, along the lines of Akron playing two points guards at the same time.
Last Edited: 3/20/2017 5:36:39 PM by FlashGary
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:10 PM
FlashGary wrote:expand_more
Recruiting situations always are fluid based on unexpected changes within a program. Hence, with Rodney Culver leaving, perhaps incoming freshman Zach Butler-also an athletic slasher--can take his spot, with Coach Phillips looking to bring in a certified 2017 high school point guard recruit. The 6-4 Butler has length, so this really could end up working in Ohio's favor, along the lines of Akron playing two points guards at the same time.
I would actually love this. The last few NCAA champs have all started two PG's. There is nothing bad about having an extra ball-handler on the floor at all times.
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