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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: MTSU is the mid-major darling of the sports world
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bobcatsquared
3/17/2017 11:20 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
On that subject it is enlightening to see Northwestern and ND advance this year.
ND, with two more wins, will become the only team to make it to the elite 8 in the last 3 NCAA tournaments.
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Alan Swank
3/17/2017 12:52 PM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
Good job on graduating students. No question about that.

My question was on admissions standards and whether Ohio would be able to recruit the same players. You were saying we need to be recruiting the same type of athletes.
But isn't graduation what it's all about? I'm sure Duke, Stanford, and Vanderbilt would say the same thing about some of the athletes that we admit.
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Jeff McKinney
3/17/2017 12:56 PM
It is, unless athletes are funneled into a particular major where they get extra "help" and advantages to get through. I always raise my eyebrows a bit when I see a roster with over half the team majoring in the same thing.

This happens in football and mens basketball at some schools.
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bornacatfan
3/17/2017 1:06 PM
like UNC?

NCAA has been mulling that one over for years (2011). Still kicking the can down the road with new filing. I think it will go away quietly when they can make a big deal our of some trivial MAC or lesser conf. infraction http://www.scout.com/college/north-carolina/story/1739350...
Last Edited: 3/17/2017 1:08:14 PM by bornacatfan
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Alan Swank
3/17/2017 2:04 PM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
It is, unless athletes are funneled into a particular major where they get extra "help" and advantages to get through. I always raise my eyebrows a bit when I see a roster with over half the team majoring in the same thing.

This happens in football and mens basketball at some schools.
Did anyone ever find out what "specialized studies" is?
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Recovering Journalist
3/17/2017 2:15 PM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
It is, unless athletes are funneled into a particular major where they get extra "help" and advantages to get through. I always raise my eyebrows a bit when I see a roster with over half the team majoring in the same thing.

This happens in football and mens basketball at some schools.
Relevant and perhaps interesting:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521779-most-popular-a...
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cc-cat
3/17/2017 6:09 PM
They will be the "darling" when they start getting at-large bids and proper seeding. Think Wichita St feels like a "darling"
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greencat
3/17/2017 6:39 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
They will be the "darling" when they start getting at-large bids and proper seeding. Think Wichita St feels like a "darling"
The C-USA isn't what it used to be. They don't have: Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, TCU, Houston. The bottom four in that league were among the worst d-1 men's basketball teams this season. That's why they were a 12 seed. At least that is how I've tried to explain it to their fans.

I can't recall where this came from but check it out anyway...
https://imgur.com/OX64fi5
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Buckeye to Bobcat
3/17/2017 6:54 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
like UNC?

NCAA has been mulling that one over for years (2011). Still kicking the can down the road with new filing. I think it will go away quietly when they can make a big deal our of some trivial MAC or lesser conf. infraction http://www.scout.com/college/north-carolina/story/1739350...
or Toledo's point shaving scandal.....
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Only one OHIO
3/18/2017 9:39 AM
greencat wrote:expand_more
I can't recall where this came from but check it out anyway...
https://imgur.com/OX64fi5
Those are Ken Pomeroy's rankings.
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OU_Country
3/19/2017 3:10 PM
greencat wrote:expand_more
They will be the "darling" when they start getting at-large bids and proper seeding. Think Wichita St feels like a "darling"
The C-USA isn't what it used to be. They don't have: Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, TCU, Houston. The bottom four in that league were among the worst d-1 men's basketball teams this season. That's why they were a 12 seed. At least that is how I've tried to explain it to their fans.

I can't recall where this came from but check it out anyway...
https://imgur.com/OX64fi5
Those teams haven't been in C-USA since 2005, so yeah, that conference hasn't been what it used to be for over a decade. MTSU wasn't even part of that league when those schools were in the C-USA.

Wichita State has earned a higher status by winning - a lot. MTSU isn't at their level yet, though they are on the way.
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ohio9704
3/19/2017 3:18 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
They will be the "darling" when they start getting at-large bids and proper seeding. Think Wichita St feels like a "darling"
The C-USA isn't what it used to be. They don't have: Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, TCU, Houston. The bottom four in that league were among the worst d-1 men's basketball teams this season. That's why they were a 12 seed. At least that is how I've tried to explain it to their fans.

I can't recall where this came from but check it out anyway...
https://imgur.com/OX64fi5
Those teams haven't been in C-USA since 2005, so yeah, that conference hasn't been what it used to be for over a decade. MTSU wasn't even part of that league when those schools were in the C-USA.

Wichita State has earned a higher status by winning - a lot. MTSU isn't at their level yet, though they are on the way.

All might change in Murfreesboro if Kermit Davis would get an offer from LSU.
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Jeff McKinney
3/19/2017 5:07 PM
I know it would be a ton of money, but he has such a good thing going in Murfreesboro, maybe he wouldn't want to leave.
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Alan Swank
3/19/2017 5:40 PM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
I know it would be a ton of money, but he has such a good thing going in Murfreesboro, maybe he wouldn't want to leave.
Murfreesboro is a great town and a short 30 minutes to Nashville and some of the best music in the US. Plus now that you can taste the real thing at Jack Daniels, that Lynchburg trip is loads of fun.
Last Edited: 3/19/2017 5:41:22 PM by Alan Swank
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bornacatfan
3/19/2017 6:01 PM
SO the question is that keeps running around in my head bothering me....

If he has been there since 2003 and NO ONE has come looking to hire him away...what changed? Looking at his record, recruits, all the numbers I can't figure it out. I may need to have lunch withone of our local guys Antwan Boyd. He may need to help me out to see what has kept COach there for a decade and a half and what has changed to make his teams look so good. Maybe just getting in the Dance gives you an opportunity...which means CUsa has afforded him the opening and he is taking full advantage ....If that is true then would moving to SEC or a power conference mean he is a good choice. IMHO...I would not want him here in place of who we have currently....but that is a personal observation and knowledge of guys he has had in the program.
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ohio9704
3/19/2017 6:06 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
SO the question is that keeps running around in my head bothering me....

If he has been there since 2003 and NO ONE has come looking to hire him away...what changed? Looking at his record, recruits, all the numbers I can't figure it out. I may need to have lunch withone of our local guys Antwan Boyd. He may need to help me out to see what has kept COach there for a decade and a half and what has changed to make his teams look so good. Maybe just getting in the Dance gives you an opportunity...which means CUsa has afforded him the opening and he is taking full advantage ....If that is true then would moving to SEC or a power conference mean he is a good choice. IMHO...I would not want him here in place of who we have currently....but that is a personal observation and knowledge of guys he has had in the program.
He does have a few skeletons in his closet.
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OUVan
3/20/2017 12:06 PM
greencat wrote:expand_more
Just a reminder that Ohio with the similar size enrollment and similar facilities can be next. However... and this is a big however... look at the athletes on the MTSU roster.

Everybody likes a funny story about lava cakes but it takes stud athletes to do what MTSU is doing. Think about it.

And when your guys get in foul trouble play some zone defense. Saul.

And save a timeout for the very very end. Saul.
Or maybe we give a coach more than 3 seasons to put his system in place. It took Kermit Davis 9 seasons before he had his first 20 win season. We have more NCAA wins than Middle Tennessee State does since Kermit Davis got there. Good for him building the program and good for the University for having the patience to stand by Davis through 9 seasons of, well, mediocrity.

One thing I have learned from this weekend of basketball (and my entire lifetime of watching the sport) is that there are all different kinds of basketball rosters that win. And because of the way recruiting works it also takes a lot of luck.
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OU_Country
3/20/2017 12:20 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
Just a reminder that Ohio with the similar size enrollment and similar facilities can be next. However... and this is a big however... look at the athletes on the MTSU roster.

Everybody likes a funny story about lava cakes but it takes stud athletes to do what MTSU is doing. Think about it.

And when your guys get in foul trouble play some zone defense. Saul.

And save a timeout for the very very end. Saul.
Or maybe we give a coach more than 3 seasons to put his system in place. It took Kermit Davis 9 seasons before he had his first 20 win season. We have more NCAA wins than Middle Tennessee State does since Kermit Davis got there. Good for him building the program and good for the University for having the patience to stand by Davis through 9 seasons of, well, mediocrity.

One thing I have learned from this weekend of basketball (and my entire lifetime of watching the sport) is that there are all different kinds of basketball rosters that win. And because of the way recruiting works it also takes a lot of luck.
Really, really good point Van. Successful Princeton and Bucknell teams in the past haven't been filled with crazy athletic teams.
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bornacatfan
3/20/2017 12:33 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
Or maybe we give a coach more than 3 seasons to put his system in place. It took Kermit Davis 9 seasons before he had his first 20 win season. We have more NCAA wins than Middle Tennessee State does since Kermit Davis got there. Good for him building the program and good for the University for having the patience to stand by Davis through 9 seasons of, well, mediocrity.

One thing I have learned from this weekend of basketball (and my entire lifetime of watching the sport) is that there are all different kinds of basketball rosters that win. And because of the way recruiting works it also takes a lot of luck.
Excellent summary Van.

9 seasons. That is what keeps coming back to me. Without looking it up , I think TOS may have had a better run in his 9 seasons... and we all know how satisfied we were with that. Reggie at Buffs may have had an equally spectacular career.... He should be really happy they changed conferences to a big time C USA and got the SOS and RPI that comes with such a prestigious, much vaunted array of schools.
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Recovering Journalist
3/20/2017 1:07 PM
I still say they were the flavor of the month. After 15 seasons with the same coach, they have two NCAA wins. They graduate two of their three top scorers. They could well be building something special, but it's awfully premature to anoint them, no matter how many times they call themselves a "national program" - whatever that means.

Over the last five years, they look like Akron with two Tournament wins to me (great records, strong in conference, don't do much in the postseason). They've done that it back-to-back years, and that's impressive for any mid-major, but I wouldn't trade their last 15 years for our last 15 years.
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OUVan
3/20/2017 2:47 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
I still say they were the flavor of the month. After 15 seasons with the same coach, they have two NCAA wins. They graduate two of their three top scorers. They could well be building something special, but it's awfully premature to anoint them, no matter how many times they call themselves a "national program" - whatever that means.

Over the last five years, they look like Akron with two Tournament wins to me (great records, strong in conference, don't do much in the postseason). They've done that it back-to-back years, and that's impressive for any mid-major, but I wouldn't trade their last 15 years for our last 15 years.
They put together something Akron never did, a really good OOC schedule. If I were to put together a perfect schedule for us it would look like their schedule this year (with a more Midwestern flavor). They only had one 200+ KenPom ranked team on their schedule and five sub-100s. They needed it because the CUSA schedule hurts them worse than the MAC hurts ours.
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