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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan (NT)
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Ted Thompson
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Posted: 4/25/2017 10:41 AM
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100%Cat wrote:expand_more
Anyone know if scUM will still have a spot for Alstork from Wright St? Or did Jaaron take his spot?
I've heard Alstork connected to a number of schools but he just visited Dayton.
ohiocatfan1
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Posted: 4/25/2017 10:42 AM
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UpSan Bobcat wrote:expand_more
It's easy for us to be angry and hold it against Simmons, but it's the same decision a lot of guys in his case would have made (and many do).

It will be interesting to see what Ohio does with another open scholarship. With four freshmen in the recruiting class already and only one returning senior (Laster) plus one grad transfer senior (Mickle), it would make sense to hold on to the scholarship or use it on another grad transfer unless the Bobcats can get a really good freshman recruit or regular transfer.
Not angry at Simmons at all. Sorry we ever took him as a transfer from Houston. If he was willing to bail on one program he was willing to do it to another. As I said before good riddance.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 10:44 AM
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Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Welp, wish I could say I was wrong on this one. Anyone who thought that my sources were full of it....glad ya bought into delusional and not into reality.
People who gloat ought to shampoo my crotch.
And people who laugh at my sources ought to go drink Flint water but I don't say that one aloud, especially when a lot of you ridiculed me for even thinking that was going to happen considering my sources and background.
What do you want? Validation? Congratulations, your sources were correct. There's no need to come here and stand on your soap box saying how right you were. We all wanted Jaaron to stay and he left, just leave it at that.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 10:45 AM
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Makes me respect DJ even more. After his freshman year big schools were trying to get him to transfer and he said he never even gave it a thought. Sucks Simmons burned us but if he doesn't want to be here then we shouldn't want him anyway.
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 4/25/2017 10:48 AM
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More on the Simmons timeline

The recruiting quiet period ended April 6th at Noon. At 1 PM, he and his parents toured the UD campus with new coach Anthony Grant. The next day OSU made an in-home visit. Kansas also showed initial interest but that didn't seem to get traction. Not sure if because of Jaaron or it faded when they received Memphis transfers. He visited Michigan on April 14th. On April 20th, he was back on UD's campus to meet the completed UD staff.

sargentfan
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Posted: 4/25/2017 10:58 AM
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Ted Thompson wrote:expand_more
More on the Simmons timeline
The recruiting quiet period ended April 6th at Noon. At 1 PM, he and his parents toured the UD campus with new coach Anthony Grant. The next day OSU made an in-home visit. Kansas also showed initial interest but that didn't seem to get traction. Not sure if because of Jaaron or it faded when they received Memphis transfers. He visited Michigan on April 14th. On April 20th, he was back on UD's campus to meet the completed UD staff.

So basically you are saying there was no way he was staying. He decided OHIO wasn't a big enough platform to get him to the NBA so he was set on finding a team to help him get there. With UD and UM as his main choices.
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 4/25/2017 11:10 AM
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sargentfan wrote:expand_more
More on the Simmons timeline
The recruiting quiet period ended April 6th at Noon. At 1 PM, he and his parents toured the UD campus with new coach Anthony Grant. The next day OSU made an in-home visit. Kansas also showed initial interest but that didn't seem to get traction. Not sure if because of Jaaron or it faded when they received Memphis transfers. He visited Michigan on April 14th. On April 20th, he was back on UD's campus to meet the completed UD staff.

So basically you are saying there was no way he was staying. He decided OHIO wasn't a big enough platform to get him to the NBA so he was set on finding a team to help him get there. With UD and UM as his main choices.
I don't think that's true. My understanding is he wanted to keep all of this as quiet as possible because he was not even sure he wanted to transfer. He wanted to explore his options. I don't know that his pro aspirations had very much to do with his decision. I think he simply wanted to compete on the highest level possible (and play in an NCAA Tournament).
Last Edited: 4/25/2017 11:11:35 AM by UpSan Bobcat
Ted Thompson
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Posted: 4/25/2017 11:11 AM
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sargentfan wrote:expand_more
More on the Simmons timeline
The recruiting quiet period ended April 6th at Noon. At 1 PM, he and his parents toured the UD campus with new coach Anthony Grant. The next day OSU made an in-home visit. Kansas also showed initial interest but that didn't seem to get traction. Not sure if because of Jaaron or it faded when they received Memphis transfers. He visited Michigan on April 14th. On April 20th, he was back on UD's campus to meet the completed UD staff.



So basically you are saying there was no way he was staying. He decided OHIO wasn't a big enough platform to get him to the NBA so he was set on finding a team to help him get there. With UD and UM as his main choices.

 

Initially, I thought there was a chance he would stay because he didn't publicly announce his intention to transfer. But as it dragged along, and then when he visited Michigan, I thought chances were slim. 

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Posted: 4/25/2017 11:25 AM
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I might, or might not, be in the minority on not seeing Jaaron as nba talent. Too many turnovers, not enough shooting range.

I see him playing in Europe.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 11:33 AM
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Obc2 wrote:expand_more
I might, or might not, be in the minority on not seeing Jaaron as nba talent. Too many turnovers, not enough shooting range.

I see him playing in Europe.
+1
Kevin Finnegan
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Posted: 4/25/2017 11:39 AM
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While I wish Jaaron were back next year for OHIO's sake, if you look at it on the surface, I'm not sure why everybody is so angry. He graduated from OHIO with a degree (something many of our better players have been unable to accomplish). He is going elsewhere for graduate school, where he will also play basketball. I'd be curious how many posters on here have completed an advanced degree at the same place they completed their undergraduate work. I know I didn't.

In the end, he's a student-athlete, and he's doing the first part right. I mean this in sincerity when I say I wish him the best. Sure, it sucks for us and I wish it weren't so. However, this is one year for OHIO, this is the rest of his life for him. A Masters Degree from Michigan probably looks pretty good.
GoCats105
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Posted: 4/25/2017 11:39 AM
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Fine I'll say it. Jaaron Simmons transferring is good for this team. Hear me out...

...did I want him to transfer? No. You don't just find another guy as talented as Jaaron every day. He's obviously a great player and did some amazing things during his time in a Bobcat uniform. I will certainly miss him and I loved watching the kid play. My opinion of him hasn't changed. This team is obviously not "better" without him.

That all being said, this immediately forces others on this team to step up in a big way. There's no crutch of Tony to lean on (probably) and no crutch of Jaaron to lean on.

You think Jordan Dartis wanted Jaaron to leave? Hell no, he opened up space for him to shoot. But now Jordan gets to take the reigns and become more of an all-around player. Now we get to see if Jason and Doug can develop into a dominant 1-2 force in the paint, because they'll need to be with the right coaching and development over the offseason. Mike Laster: your role just got A LOT bigger.

Gavin, Zach, Teyvion, AJ, Ben, Ellis, James, Kevin and other possible new guy whoever it is: Let's GO. Do this thing. Open season boys, make the most of your shot at playing time.

----

Not to mention, if the team knew Jaaron was looking to go elsewhere, doesn't that kind of light a fire under you knowing your buddy was almost saying "you weren't good enough to get me to the NCAA Tournament" behind your back? PROVE HIM WRONG. Then beat him if you get the chance.

Also, who knows what kind of distraction that could have been to the team during next season. It could have been a disaster. Now? We ripped the band aid off. Let the healing begin.
Last Edited: 4/25/2017 11:45:06 AM by GoCats105
OUVan
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Posted: 4/25/2017 11:59 AM
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Obc2 wrote:expand_more
I might, or might not, be in the minority on not seeing Jaaron as nba talent. Too many turnovers, not enough shooting range.

I see him playing in Europe.
He's also just flat out not big enough. He's quick but not elite quick which is what he would need to compete at the next level given his size. He is a very good college guard who had a somewhat disappointing season. His numbers were down in every significant area except volume of shots. He played a much more complete game his sophomore year than he did last year. Don't know the reason why. At the end of the day you can't really fault him for reaching for the stars. He will obviously be playing against much better competition and has a significantly better chance in playing in the big dance. He is taking advantage of a rule, which like many rules, isn't being used for the reasons it was intended. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. I'm going to guess it's going to change the way the some coaches look at taking in transfers. Time for both sides to move on to the next chapter.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:26 PM
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finnOhio wrote:expand_more
While I wish Jaaron were back next year for OHIO's sake, if you look at it on the surface, I'm not sure why everybody is so angry. He graduated from OHIO with a degree (something many of our better players have been unable to accomplish). He is going elsewhere for graduate school, where he will also play basketball. I'd be curious how many posters on here have completed an advanced degree at the same place they completed their undergraduate work. I know I didn't.

In the end, he's a student-athlete, and he's doing the first part right. I mean this in sincerity when I say I wish him the best. Sure, it sucks for us and I wish it weren't so. However, this is one year for OHIO, this is the rest of his life for him. A Masters Degree from Michigan probably looks pretty good.
EXACTLY!!!! Funny, over on the Football board Frank has been doing well with this Grad Transfer thing since it's inception, and some have had real impacts.
No one has a problem with that, but now that OHIO is on the other end of this thing quite a few are up in arms. Jaaron represented OHIO University very well while he was here. He's leaving as an Alum and as a part of OHIO University Basketball history. I personally enjoyed watching him play here and will be rooting for him at his next stop.
Bobcat Love
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:31 PM
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There's an element of "fit" here that signals an abysmally bad move by Simmons.

You can be the unquestioned leader of your team AND be the pre-season MAC POTY favorite in a conference that is way down and wide open.

OR

You can try and mesh yourself into a team that became the ultimate family via a plane crash. Not a figurative plane crash, a real plane screaming off the runway en route to the Big 10 Tournament. A team that will probably lose a good deal of its talent and scoring this offseason. And oh yeah, with all that talent and scoring, they were all of 10-8 in the Big Ten last year.

I'm old enough to take the long view on things now, but I understand how this works with kids and their families who think they are the second coming of Michael Jordan or LeBron James. Seeing Ted's post about Jaaron making a visit to Lawrence, KS made me double over. Frank Mason he is not. Additionally, once you've been to 2+ schools, you automatically carry the scarlet letter in my book.

We'll be fine. That said, we still need to schedule better. We do ourselves no favors by powering through the MEAC and SWAC in the non-conference only to find ourselves winners of 22 or 23 games and sitting home twiddling our thumbs in March. I'd rather play a good schedule, showcase our kids and our school, and go to war with a battle tested 18-13 team in Cleveland instead of reminiscing about a 25 win season with Kennesaw State and Alabama A&M in the win column.

The data is in to show that this scheduling philosophy isn't optimal. The Simmons transfer only highlights the issue.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:39 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
EXACTLY!!!! Funny, over on the Football board Frank has been doing well with this Grad Transfer thing since it's inception, and some have had real impacts.
No one has a problem with that, but now that OHIO is on the other end of this thing quite a few are up in arms. Jaaron represented OHIO University very well while he was here. He's leaving as an Alum and as a part of OHIO University Basketball history. I personally enjoyed watching him play here and will be rooting for him at his next stop.
Two different situations. Every grad transfer we have taken for Football has come here because they weren't starting and they wanted more playing time. My guess is in each case they sat down with the coach and decided together to move on. We never poached any smaller program's top players.
ohiocatfan1
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:44 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
While I wish Jaaron were back next year for OHIO's sake, if you look at it on the surface, I'm not sure why everybody is so angry. He graduated from OHIO with a degree (something many of our better players have been unable to accomplish). He is going elsewhere for graduate school, where he will also play basketball. I'd be curious how many posters on here have completed an advanced degree at the same place they completed their undergraduate work. I know I didn't.

In the end, he's a student-athlete, and he's doing the first part right. I mean this in sincerity when I say I wish him the best. Sure, it sucks for us and I wish it weren't so. However, this is one year for OHIO, this is the rest of his life for him. A Masters Degree from Michigan probably looks pretty good.
EXACTLY!!!! Funny, over on the Football board Frank has been doing well with this Grad Transfer thing since it's inception, and some have had real impacts.
No one has a problem with that, but now that OHIO is on the other end of this thing quite a few are up in arms. Jaaron represented OHIO University very well while he was here. He's leaving as an Alum and as a part of OHIO University Basketball history. I personally enjoyed watching him play here and will be rooting for him at his next stop.
That's your choice but I'll root for those who want to be part of our program. When he left Houston he was apparently one of those who wanted to be part of our program and now he doesn't. I'm not rooting against him I just couldn't care less which direction his career goes now. I'm interested in our team.
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:44 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
EXACTLY!!!! Funny, over on the Football board Frank has been doing well with this Grad Transfer thing since it's inception, and some have had real impacts.
No one has a problem with that, but now that OHIO is on the other end of this thing quite a few are up in arms. Jaaron represented OHIO University very well while he was here. He's leaving as an Alum and as a part of OHIO University Basketball history. I personally enjoyed watching him play here and will be rooting for him at his next stop.
I get your point, BTC, and it's something I've thought about as well. However, their is one difference. Michigan football lost two players I imagine Harbaugh didn't mind seeing leave the program. Ohio basketball is losing it's best player and a potential MAC POY.

Another thought that has crossed my mind is how Saul must be feeling. I had the impression that Saul and JS had a strong coach/player relationship. I know Saul will never admit it publicly, but he must be feeling a pain in his back right now from where JS stabbed him.
Last Edited: 4/25/2017 12:46:47 PM by bobcatsquared
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:51 PM
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Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
There's an element of "fit" here that signals an abysmally bad move by Simmons.

You can be the unquestioned leader of your team AND be the pre-season MAC POTY favorite in a conference that is way down and wide open.

OR

You can try and mesh yourself into a team that became the ultimate family via a plane crash. Not a figurative plane crash, a real plane screaming off the runway en route to the Big 10 Tournament. A team that will probably lose a good deal of its talent and scoring this offseason. And oh yeah, with all that talent and scoring, they were all of 10-8 in the Big Ten last year.

I'm old enough to take the long view on things now, but I understand how this works with kids and their families who think they are the second coming of Michael Jordan or LeBron James. Seeing Ted's post about Jaaron making a visit to Lawrence, KS made me double over. Frank Mason he is not. Additionally, once you've been to 2+ schools, you automatically carry the scarlet letter in my book.

We'll be fine. That said, we still need to schedule better. We do ourselves no favors by powering through the MEAC and SWAC in the non-conference only to find ourselves winners of 22 or 23 games and sitting home twiddling our thumbs in March. I'd rather play a good schedule, showcase our kids and our school, and go to war with a battle tested 18-13 team in Cleveland instead of reminiscing about a 25 win season with Kennesaw State and Alabama A&M in the win column.

The data is in to show that this scheduling philosophy isn't optimal. The Simmons transfer only highlights the issue.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who wonders about the fit in this case. At Ohio, he's THE guy who was given the keys to the sports car. At Michigan, he's one of the guys, and will have a potential competition on his hands to start. They have a soph PG in Xavier Simpson that was highly recruited.

At Ohio, he could have graduated and been a legend in our program's history, one of the best point guards to ever play here. By leaving, he's cast from everyone's memory because he didn't stay for his last year. He's basically made himself Jeremy Fears with an extra year played.

I just don't get the motivation to go to Michigan. If he'd gone to UD, his hometown, I'd have understood that. I'd love to hear his line of thinking someday.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:55 PM
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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:expand_more
EXACTLY!!!! Funny, over on the Football board Frank has been doing well with this Grad Transfer thing since it's inception, and some have had real impacts.
No one has a problem with that, but now that OHIO is on the other end of this thing quite a few are up in arms. Jaaron represented OHIO University very well while he was here. He's leaving as an Alum and as a part of OHIO University Basketball history. I personally enjoyed watching him play here and will be rooting for him at his next stop.
Two different situations. Every grad transfer we have taken for Football has come here because they weren't starting and they wanted more playing time. My guess is in each case they sat down with the coach and decided together to move on. We never poached any smaller program's top players.

Michael Braunstein was a starter. And a Grad transfer is a grad transfer. Jaaron fulfilled his commitment to OHIO University. You do not have to like it, but you should at least respect it.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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I find the criticism of him here to be misguided, and feel like it reflects poorly on OU and our fans. Accusing Simmons of being a traitor, and stating that he "should be dead to us" completely ignores the idea of what it is to be a student athlete. Simmons got his degree from Ohio University and represented us well on the court while he was here.

As a graduate, he's earned the right to pursue whatever path he feels set him up for the best shot at professional success, and he's done that. We should wish him the best and move on.
GoCats105
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:03 PM
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Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
There's an element of "fit" here that signals an abysmally bad move by Simmons.

You can be the unquestioned leader of your team AND be the pre-season MAC POTY favorite in a conference that is way down and wide open.

OR

You can try and mesh yourself into a team that became the ultimate family via a plane crash. Not a figurative plane crash, a real plane screaming off the runway en route to the Big 10 Tournament. A team that will probably lose a good deal of its talent and scoring this offseason. And oh yeah, with all that talent and scoring, they were all of 10-8 in the Big Ten last year.

I'm old enough to take the long view on things now, but I understand how this works with kids and their families who think they are the second coming of Michael Jordan or LeBron James. Seeing Ted's post about Jaaron making a visit to Lawrence, KS made me double over. Frank Mason he is not. Additionally, once you've been to 2+ schools, you automatically carry the scarlet letter in my book.

We'll be fine. That said, we still need to schedule better. We do ourselves no favors by powering through the MEAC and SWAC in the non-conference only to find ourselves winners of 22 or 23 games and sitting home twiddling our thumbs in March. I'd rather play a good schedule, showcase our kids and our school, and go to war with a battle tested 18-13 team in Cleveland instead of reminiscing about a 25 win season with Kennesaw State and Alabama A&M in the win column.

The data is in to show that this scheduling philosophy isn't optimal. The Simmons transfer only highlights the issue.
A Bobcat Love sighting. A Flomo sighting. Where's Slimmy???? JSF???

+1 to this. Nailed it.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:13 PM
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I find the criticism of him here to be misguided, and feel like it reflects poorly on OU and our fans. Accusing Simmons of being a traitor, and stating that he "should be dead to us" completely ignores the idea of what it is to be a student athlete. Simmons got his degree from Ohio University and represented us well on the court while he was here.

As a graduate, he's earned the right to pursue whatever path he feels set him up for the best shot at professional success, and he's done that. We should wish him the best and move on.
I partly disagree. I think criticizing the decision to go to Michigan is fair. The rest I agree with. I'm not wishing him the best. I'm not wishing him ill personally. I just hope they miss the tournament. ;)

Re: "he should be dead to us", since I used that phrase, I was merely saying if a person felt that way about Coach Groce, then they should feel equally that way about Jaaron.

Bottom line for many of us is that we hate the rule that allows it.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:34 PM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
There's an element of "fit" here that signals an abysmally bad move by Simmons.

You can be the unquestioned leader of your team AND be the pre-season MAC POTY favorite in a conference that is way down and wide open.

OR

You can try and mesh yourself into a team that became the ultimate family via a plane crash. Not a figurative plane crash, a real plane screaming off the runway en route to the Big 10 Tournament. A team that will probably lose a good deal of its talent and scoring this offseason. And oh yeah, with all that talent and scoring, they were all of 10-8 in the Big Ten last year.

I'm old enough to take the long view on things now, but I understand how this works with kids and their families who think they are the second coming of Michael Jordan or LeBron James. Seeing Ted's post about Jaaron making a visit to Lawrence, KS made me double over. Frank Mason he is not. Additionally, once you've been to 2+ schools, you automatically carry the scarlet letter in my book.

We'll be fine. That said, we still need to schedule better. We do ourselves no favors by powering through the MEAC and SWAC in the non-conference only to find ourselves winners of 22 or 23 games and sitting home twiddling our thumbs in March. I'd rather play a good schedule, showcase our kids and our school, and go to war with a battle tested 18-13 team in Cleveland instead of reminiscing about a 25 win season with Kennesaw State and Alabama A&M in the win column.

The data is in to show that this scheduling philosophy isn't optimal. The Simmons transfer only highlights the issue.
By leaving, he's cast from everyone's memory because he didn't stay for his last year. He's basically made himself Jeremy Fears with an extra year played.
Actually, I put Simmons below Jeremy Fears when talking about a list of OHIO great point guards. Jeremy at least led OHIO to an NCAA Tourney and he never dribbled out the clock down 2 with 4 seconds left in a MAC Tourney game. Fears>Simmons #AllAboutMarch #ThatsHowYouAreRemembered
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:44 PM
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OU_Country wrote:expand_more
I find the criticism of him here to be misguided, and feel like it reflects poorly on OU and our fans. Accusing Simmons of being a traitor, and stating that he "should be dead to us" completely ignores the idea of what it is to be a student athlete. Simmons got his degree from Ohio University and represented us well on the court while he was here.

As a graduate, he's earned the right to pursue whatever path he feels set him up for the best shot at professional success, and he's done that. We should wish him the best and move on.
I partly disagree. I think criticizing the decision to go to Michigan is fair. The rest I agree with. I'm not wishing him the best. I'm not wishing him ill personally. I just hope they miss the tournament. ;)

Re: "he should be dead to us", since I used that phrase, I was merely saying if a person felt that way about Coach Groce, then they should feel equally that way about Jaaron.

Bottom line for many of us is that we hate the rule that allows it.
Fair but biased. Simmons has proven everything he can prove in the MAC. It's unquestionable that he'll face better competition in the BIG 10 night in and night out, and that excelling at that level will help quell many of the questions NBA scouts have about him.

To be clear, I don't think he's an NBA player. He won't be able to guard NBA point guards, and just doesn't bring any elite NBA skills to the table. But I can't fault the guy for pursuing that path, particularly when it allows him to start on a graduate degree at a great university in the process.
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