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Topic: Why we will win the MAC
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BillyTheCat
5/2/2017 11:17 AM
OUs LONG Driver wrote:expand_more
Gavin Block had a 50.3 eFG% last year. This is a fact which uses the other facts you just provided. Advanced metrics are your friend, they often tell a much more complete story (and sometimes even support your assumptions).

To your point that Block could stand to improve his shooting numbers, which I agree with, only two regulars had a worse eFG%, Culver (48.5) & Simmons (48.0). As OUVan points out Block has value outside these numbers too. He creates extra possessions by taking charges, makes the proper pass, and knows how to throw a post entry pass. These aren't "moral victories", it's simply pointing out positives from a player's game. Block has things to work on that I'm sure the coaches reviewed with him at the end of the year. He will likely take another step forward with strength & quickness and we both hope to see an improvement in those shooting #'s.

Here's a link to the team's stats with some of the advanced metrics. The pre & post Campbell injury can also be observed by looking at the conference only stats.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/ohio/2017.html
Why in the hell are you guys trying to explain anything to this clown? Still waiting on his answer as to who is lying to Block, and I'd like to know on what knowledge does he base what Block is capable of shooting and relaying that in a hard number.
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GoCats105
5/2/2017 11:20 AM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Thanks LongDriver ...


allen attacking things is simply showing his ignorance of advanced analytics and not acknowledging that there are folks out there that understand the game and give a more complete picture.... I suppose he could call Ken Pomeroy and tell him he is adding to morals and being a medi by giving us better understanding of the game and the numbers

Gavin is 50.3 eFG and 53.8 TS% Jordy is 47th in the country at 63% TS%

At the risk of Ken Pomeroy getting an email telling him how stupid/moral/medi he is I will share the info..... to give some understanding to the numbers some are using...they are all relative just as the ESPN numbers are to other players in the country. KenPom's make more sense to me and after this many years for some reason I trust their accuracy a bit more. That's just me I guess.


Effective field goal percentage (eFG%): Same as regular field goal percentage, except that made three-pointers are appropriately given 50% more credit.

True shooting percentage (TS%): (New) This is Gasaway’s old PPWS divided by 2. It’s like eFG%, but throws in trips to the line and converts it to a shooting percentage that approximates what 2-point percentage a player would need to have to score the points he produces on all of his shooting attempts.



IN that scenario

+1 I almost referenced Dartis' being 47th in the country in TS% but I figured that'd go unappreciated.

Jason Carter efficiency statistics.
If I get time I want to calculate Jason's PER according to John Hollinger's formula. I'm curious of two things: the total season PER and what it was after Tony went down.
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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
5/2/2017 12:17 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Thanks LongDriver ...


allen attacking things is simply showing his ignorance of advanced analytics and not acknowledging that there are folks out there that understand the game and give a more complete picture.... I suppose he could call Ken Pomeroy and tell him he is adding to morals and being a medi by giving us better understanding of the game and the numbers

Gavin is 50.3 eFG and 53.8 TS% Jordy is 47th in the country at 63% TS%

At the risk of Ken Pomeroy getting an email telling him how stupid/moral/medi he is I will share the info..... to give some understanding to the numbers some are using...they are all relative just as the ESPN numbers are to other players in the country. KenPom's make more sense to me and after this many years for some reason I trust their accuracy a bit more. That's just me I guess.


Effective field goal percentage (eFG%): Same as regular field goal percentage, except that made three-pointers are appropriately given 50% more credit.

True shooting percentage (TS%): (New) This is Gasaway’s old PPWS divided by 2. It’s like eFG%, but throws in trips to the line and converts it to a shooting percentage that approximates what 2-point percentage a player would need to have to score the points he produces on all of his shooting attempts.



IN that scenario

+1 I almost referenced Dartis' being 47th in the country in TS% but I figured that'd go unappreciated.

Jason Carter efficiency statistics.
If I get time I want to calculate Jason's PER according to John Hollinger's formula. I'm curious of two things: the total season PER and what it was after Tony went down.
It's hard to calculate game by game PER without knowing league average stats like pace.

His season PER is calculated here: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/gavin-block-1...

Some other good advanced metrics on that page.

Block had the 3rd best defensive rating in the MAC last year.
6th best Defensive Box Plus/Minus.
9th best defensive win shares.

PER wise he was only 9th on the team last year (8th if you remove Bisutti)

7th best offensive box rating on the team (6th minus Bisutti), 3rd best defensive box rating.

Right now he is a good role player who has a positive impact on our overall results when he is in the game. If he can improve his 3pt shooting from 36% to 40%+ then he will be even better.
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OU_Country
5/2/2017 12:41 PM
OUs LONG Driver wrote:expand_more
Who's lying to Gavin Block and what are they lying about? The thing that needs to stop around here is you talking about moral victories and "medi's" in every other post. I'm not saying don't post but this stuff you add after a perfectly reasonable point makes you seem like you're posting from the pysch ward. It's brutal to read every day.
Hit the nail on the head re: following good thoughts and research with nonsense about "moral victories and "medi's" in every other post." Unless of course "Medi" states the need for medication caused by continually beating the drum about this stuff with some skewed hope that anyone is listening.
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OU_Country
5/2/2017 12:42 PM
Back to the rest of the discussion, thanks to several of you for sharing the thoughts on the advanced metrics. I'm admittedly behind the 8-ball on using and understanding them. Some of the explanations in this thread helped me get closer to that goal.
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GoCats105
5/2/2017 1:03 PM
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:expand_more
Thanks LongDriver ...


allen attacking things is simply showing his ignorance of advanced analytics and not acknowledging that there are folks out there that understand the game and give a more complete picture.... I suppose he could call Ken Pomeroy and tell him he is adding to morals and being a medi by giving us better understanding of the game and the numbers

Gavin is 50.3 eFG and 53.8 TS% Jordy is 47th in the country at 63% TS%

At the risk of Ken Pomeroy getting an email telling him how stupid/moral/medi he is I will share the info..... to give some understanding to the numbers some are using...they are all relative just as the ESPN numbers are to other players in the country. KenPom's make more sense to me and after this many years for some reason I trust their accuracy a bit more. That's just me I guess.


Effective field goal percentage (eFG%): Same as regular field goal percentage, except that made three-pointers are appropriately given 50% more credit.

True shooting percentage (TS%): (New) This is Gasaway’s old PPWS divided by 2. It’s like eFG%, but throws in trips to the line and converts it to a shooting percentage that approximates what 2-point percentage a player would need to have to score the points he produces on all of his shooting attempts.



IN that scenario

+1 I almost referenced Dartis' being 47th in the country in TS% but I figured that'd go unappreciated.

Jason Carter efficiency statistics.
If I get time I want to calculate Jason's PER according to John Hollinger's formula. I'm curious of two things: the total season PER and what it was after Tony went down.
It's hard to calculate game by game PER without knowing league average stats like pace.

His season PER is calculated here: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/gavin-block-1...

Some other good advanced metrics on that page.

Block had the 3rd best defensive rating in the MAC last year.
6th best Defensive Box Plus/Minus.
9th best defensive win shares.

PER wise he was only 9th on the team last year (8th if you remove Bisutti)

7th best offensive box rating on the team (6th minus Bisutti), 3rd best defensive box rating.

Right now he is a good role player who has a positive impact on our overall results when he is in the game. If he can improve his 3pt shooting from 36% to 40%+ then he will be even better.
Oh was talking Jason, not Gavin. But the points remain.

Jason was 8th in the MAC in PER at 22.1. My guess is that number is larger in the last 1-2 months of the season compared to the first 1-2. I bet he stacks up pretty well against the top of the MAC.
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OUVan
5/2/2017 1:07 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
I don't know what math you are doing. The NCAA average for 3 point percentage is 39%
Ummmmm, only 27 teams out of 351 shot the 3 at 39% of better. Somebody is being lied to but I don't think it's Gavin Block.
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OUVan
5/2/2017 1:11 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
At the risk of Ken Pomeroy getting an email telling him how stupid/moral/medi he is I will share the info..... to give some understanding to the numbers some are using...they are all relative just as the ESPN numbers are to other players in the country. KenPom's make more sense to me and after this many years for some reason I trust their accuracy a bit more. That's just me I guess.
One reason for the difference in numbers between KenPom and ESPN is that KenPom calculates his numbers only using games against D1 opponents. ESPN's numbers include games against non-D1 opponents as well.
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OUVan
5/2/2017 1:20 PM
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:expand_more
It's hard to calculate game by game PER without knowing league average stats like pace.

His season PER is calculated here: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/gavin-block-1...

Some other good advanced metrics on that page.

Block had the 3rd best defensive rating in the MAC last year.
6th best Defensive Box Plus/Minus.
9th best defensive win shares.

PER wise he was only 9th on the team last year (8th if you remove Bisutti)

7th best offensive box rating on the team (6th minus Bisutti), 3rd best defensive box rating.

Right now he is a good role player who has a positive impact on our overall results when he is in the game. If he can improve his 3pt shooting from 36% to 40%+ then he will be even better.
He was also second on the team in assists and if they were to give out hockey assists his numbers would be through the roof. I used to say this a lot when Tommy was here but sometimes it's the pass that leads to the pass that is the more important one. A quick ball reversal to a guy who then dumps it down to a big with a solid seal is a beautiful thing but unfortunately the guy who set it up doesn't get statistically rewarded.
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oldkatz
5/2/2017 1:51 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
It's hard to calculate game by game PER without knowing league average stats like pace.

His season PER is calculated here: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/gavin-block-1...

Some other good advanced metrics on that page.

Block had the 3rd best defensive rating in the MAC last year.
6th best Defensive Box Plus/Minus.
9th best defensive win shares.

PER wise he was only 9th on the team last year (8th if you remove Bisutti)

7th best offensive box rating on the team (6th minus Bisutti), 3rd best defensive box rating.

Right now he is a good role player who has a positive impact on our overall results when he is in the game. If he can improve his 3pt shooting from 36% to 40%+ then he will be even better.
He was also second on the team in assists and if they were to give out hockey assists his numbers would be through the roof. I used to say this a lot when Tommy was here but sometimes it's the pass that leads to the pass that is the more important one. A quick ball reversal to a guy who then dumps it down to a big with a solid seal is a beautiful thing but unfortunately the guy who set it up doesn't get statistically rewarded.
Exactly, and an important point to recognize in the overall offensive scheme.
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allen
5/2/2017 2:19 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Gavin Block had a 50.3 eFG% last year. This is a fact which uses the other facts you just provided. Advanced metrics are your friend, they often tell a much more complete story (and sometimes even support your assumptions).

To your point that Block could stand to improve his shooting numbers, which I agree with, only two regulars had a worse eFG%, Culver (48.5) & Simmons (48.0). As OUVan points out Block has value outside these numbers too. He creates extra possessions by taking charges, makes the proper pass, and knows how to throw a post entry pass. These aren't "moral victories", it's simply pointing out positives from a player's game. Block has things to work on that I'm sure the coaches reviewed with him at the end of the year. He will likely take another step forward with strength & quickness and we both hope to see an improvement in those shooting #'s.

Here's a link to the team's stats with some of the advanced metrics. The pre & post Campbell injury can also be observed by looking at the conference only stats.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/ohio/2017.html
Why in the hell are you guys trying to explain anything to this clown? Still waiting on his answer as to who is lying to Block, and I'd like to know on what knowledge does he base what Block is capable of shooting and relaying that in a hard number.

Agent Zero (3-4), BA and the world. 34.6 % from three and 42.8 overall from the floor and 65.6 from the line is below average, you can use feller beller and zsa zsa gabor metrics, it is below average. There is not a moral in the world that makes this right. The young man can improve and should improve. You guys can gang up and throw Hay Makers all that you want. 42.8% from the field and 65.6 from the Line IS NOT AVERAGE. HE gave up more that 7.6 points per game. IF YOU THROW IN HOCKEY ASSIST, THEN HE WOULD HAVE LED THE WORLD IN ASSIST IS A LIE. This is people trying to control the narrative with alternative facts. Let's all come back to the real.
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OU_Country
5/2/2017 2:46 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
There is not a moral in the world that makes this right.
I thought we were talking basketball here, not morality or right vs wrong?
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GoCats105
5/2/2017 2:47 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
Gavin Block had a 50.3 eFG% last year. This is a fact which uses the other facts you just provided. Advanced metrics are your friend, they often tell a much more complete story (and sometimes even support your assumptions).

To your point that Block could stand to improve his shooting numbers, which I agree with, only two regulars had a worse eFG%, Culver (48.5) & Simmons (48.0). As OUVan points out Block has value outside these numbers too. He creates extra possessions by taking charges, makes the proper pass, and knows how to throw a post entry pass. These aren't "moral victories", it's simply pointing out positives from a player's game. Block has things to work on that I'm sure the coaches reviewed with him at the end of the year. He will likely take another step forward with strength & quickness and we both hope to see an improvement in those shooting #'s.

Here's a link to the team's stats with some of the advanced metrics. The pre & post Campbell injury can also be observed by looking at the conference only stats.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/ohio/2017.html
Why in the hell are you guys trying to explain anything to this clown? Still waiting on his answer as to who is lying to Block, and I'd like to know on what knowledge does he base what Block is capable of shooting and relaying that in a hard number.

Agent Zero (3-4), BA and the world. 34.6 % from three and 42.8 overall from the floor and 65.6 from the line is below average, you can use feller beller and zsa zsa gabor metrics, it is below average. There is not a moral in the world that makes this right. The young man can improve and should improve. You guys can gang up and throw Hay Makers all that you want. 42.8% from the field and 65.6 from the Line IS NOT AVERAGE. HE gave up more that 7.6 points per game. IF YOU THROW IN HOCKEY ASSIST, THEN HE WOULD HAVE LED THE WORLD IN ASSIST IS A LIE. This is people trying to control the narrative with alternative facts. Let's all come back to the real.
So the only stats that matter are what you can find on ESPN.com or NCAA.org? And the only passing that matters is the pass that leads to a basket? OK.
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allen
5/2/2017 2:57 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Gavin Block had a 50.3 eFG% last year. This is a fact which uses the other facts you just provided. Advanced metrics are your friend, they often tell a much more complete story (and sometimes even support your assumptions).

To your point that Block could stand to improve his shooting numbers, which I agree with, only two regulars had a worse eFG%, Culver (48.5) & Simmons (48.0). As OUVan points out Block has value outside these numbers too. He creates extra possessions by taking charges, makes the proper pass, and knows how to throw a post entry pass. These aren't "moral victories", it's simply pointing out positives from a player's game. Block has things to work on that I'm sure the coaches reviewed with him at the end of the year. He will likely take another step forward with strength & quickness and we both hope to see an improvement in those shooting #'s.

Here's a link to the team's stats with some of the advanced metrics. The pre & post Campbell injury can also be observed by looking at the conference only stats.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/ohio/2017.html
Why in the hell are you guys trying to explain anything to this clown? Still waiting on his answer as to who is lying to Block, and I'd like to know on what knowledge does he base what Block is capable of shooting and relaying that in a hard number.

Agent Zero (3-4), BA and the world. 34.6 % from three and 42.8 overall from the floor and 65.6 from the line is below average, you can use feller beller and zsa zsa gabor metrics, it is below average. There is not a moral in the world that makes this right. The young man can improve and should improve. You guys can gang up and throw Hay Makers all that you want. 42.8% from the field and 65.6 from the Line IS NOT AVERAGE. HE gave up more that 7.6 points per game. IF YOU THROW IN HOCKEY ASSIST, THEN HE WOULD HAVE LED THE WORLD IN ASSIST IS A LIE. This is people trying to control the narrative with alternative facts. Let's all come back to the real.
So the only stats that matter are what you can find on ESPN.com or NCAA.org? And the only passing that matters is the pass that leads to a basket? OK.
We can all agree that Block has value, he needs to improve his shooting to be the best that he can be. If I were his coach, that is what I would be asking him to work on. He can easily be a 17, 5 and 5 guy, but he has to knock down shots. If he is knocking down shots, Carter will get less double teams and Jordy will get better looks. We will not need to look to alternative stats.
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OU_Country
5/2/2017 4:27 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
We will not need to look to alternative stats.
Who has been looking at alternative stats?


Bueller?
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giacomo
5/4/2017 11:47 AM
Do you think it's a bit early to predict the MAC champ? Lot of things happen between now and then.
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