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Topic: Simmons to declare for NBA draft
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Buckeye to Bobcat
4/24/2017 3:17 PM
They want to see you play against more "established" competition. No offense to our scheduling, playing the MAC versus the Big Ten goes over with folks a lot better than playing in our conference. Sorry for saying it like I did, didn't mean to say that they can't find their way to Athens. The big thing is they want to see him against bigger competition. Glad they found Mo, but remember he went undrafted and was down in Dallas originally before going to NYC.
Last Edited: 4/24/2017 3:20:07 PM by Buckeye to Bobcat
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rpbobcat
4/24/2017 3:39 PM
SaulBall wrote:expand_more
That said, Jaaron would be a fool not to consider going to one of those schools because scouts and media are dumber than rocks that they can't get on Route 33 to find a kid. The second I saw Jaaron light up Bean Willis and Stevie in practice when he sat out his transfer year was all I needed to know about how good the kid was. So if he does leave, and I hope to god he doesn't, he is going to light up the Big Ten and be in the running for Player of the Year in those conferences and most likely have a better chance of getting drafted. In addition, a full ride to potentially start on a graduate degree

You've got an antiqued view on NBA scouting.

"Scouts and media are dumber than rocks"

I don't disagree with your statement. I disagree with the conclusion you're drawing from it. "Scouts" today are increasingly "analytically minded" guys rather than the traditional old-school "I've watched a lot of hoops" guys who won't hop in their car to drive down route 33. The new guys don't care where you played college hoops, because they can accurately factor strength of schedule into their metrics grading players. It's in the best interests of schools like Ohio State and Michigan to push the "exposure" narrative but it's nothing more than talk of a bygone era.

5 guys in this year's NBA All-Star game played at mid-major programs. With the exception of Paul Millsap, who went in the 2nd round, all of them were drafted in the Top 15 picks in the NBA Draft. 3/5 went in the Top 10.
Yes, there are more NBA guys from major schools, but that isn't because of exposure, that is because majors have more players who are of the elite NBA caliber.

Different sport, but wasn't Bill Belichick in Athens a month ago watching Tarell Basham? In 2017, if you are good, they're going to find you. The entire "exposure" narrative falls apart even MORE when you look at exactly what Antonio Campbell and Jaaron Simmons did the past two years. This is EXACTLY why you should declare for the draft as a Junior and then withdraw your name. By doing so, you get yourself into rooms with NBA executives and scouts making roster decisions. If you're good enough to enter the draft process as a Junior as a realistic prospect, they will run you through their computer models and watch your game tape whether you're at Ohio, Ohio State or Weber State.
There's a show on WFAN on Sunday mornings called The Sports Edge.
It deals with high school and to a lesser extent college sports.

A few weeks ago they were talking about parents wanting their kids to go to "high profile" high school programs to get noticed by college scouts.

They had a couple of college coaches on who said,if your kid is good,we'll know about him/her.

I would think the same thing would apply to the pros.
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allen
4/24/2017 3:44 PM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
They want to see you play against more "established" competition. No offense to our scheduling, playing the MAC versus the Big Ten goes over with folks a lot better than playing in our conference. Sorry for saying it like I did, didn't mean to say that they can't find their way to Athens. The big thing is they want to see him against bigger competition. Glad they found Mo, but remember he went undrafted and was down in Dallas originally before going to NYC.
I hear you, but the MAC player of the year normally gets invited to Portsmouth or Chicago and that is where you get the opportunity to get drafted, like Trent and Hunter did. Mo was a tweener so it was a little bit more difficult for him. Big ten point guards usually are not usually the focal point of the offense, so they can be all Big ten and have a harder time like Aaron Craft. DJ will always get invited to a NBA camp, because he was the focal point of our offense. Michigan State's point guard was a four or five star recruit, he has been reduced to a distributor and a defender. I think that if you are a wing or a big, the B1G is nice, point guard wise, Jaaron will be forced to run a slow half court offense and will probably average 11 and 7, you may get props for the referral but he will not light up the B1G, the B1G is structured for bigs.
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Recovering Journalist
4/24/2017 3:48 PM
There are only 450 NBA players, and probably less than 50 roster spots legitimately open each year. The odds of ever making an NBA roster are long no matter where you played college ball.

If Simmons wants to say he played in the Big Ten, wants a change of scenery or wants different academic opportunities at a different school, then he should go. I truly don't see a very compelling argument for leaving for the purposes of a basketball career. I'm in the camp that says good players eventually make their way to the places they belong, whether that's the NBA, elite European leagues, sketchy international leagues or the local Y.

The MAC doesn't keep guys from making the NBA.
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allen
4/24/2017 3:49 PM
SaulBall wrote:expand_more
That said, Jaaron would be a fool not to consider going to one of those schools because scouts and media are dumber than rocks that they can't get on Route 33 to find a kid. The second I saw Jaaron light up Bean Willis and Stevie in practice when he sat out his transfer year was all I needed to know about how good the kid was. So if he does leave, and I hope to god he doesn't, he is going to light up the Big Ten and be in the running for Player of the Year in those conferences and most likely have a better chance of getting drafted. In addition, a full ride to potentially start on a graduate degree

You've got an antiqued view on NBA scouting.

"Scouts and media are dumber than rocks"

I don't disagree with your statement. I disagree with the conclusion you're drawing from it. "Scouts" today are increasingly "analytically minded" guys rather than the traditional old-school "I've watched a lot of hoops" guys who won't hop in their car to drive down route 33. The new guys don't care where you played college hoops, because they can accurately factor strength of schedule into their metrics grading players. It's in the best interests of schools like Ohio State and Michigan to push the "exposure" narrative but it's nothing more than talk of a bygone era.

5 guys in this year's NBA All-Star game played at mid-major programs. With the exception of Paul Millsap, who went in the 2nd round, all of them were drafted in the Top 15 picks in the NBA Draft. 3/5 went in the Top 10.
Yes, there are more NBA guys from major schools, but that isn't because of exposure, that is because majors have more players who are of the elite NBA caliber.

Different sport, but wasn't Bill Belichick in Athens a month ago watching Tarell Basham? In 2017, if you are good, they're going to find you. The entire "exposure" narrative falls apart even MORE when you look at exactly what Antonio Campbell and Jaaron Simmons did the past two years. This is EXACTLY why you should declare for the draft as a Junior and then withdraw your name. By doing so, you get yourself into rooms with NBA executives and scouts making roster decisions. If you're good enough to enter the draft process as a Junior as a realistic prospect, they will run you through their computer models and watch your game tape whether you're at Ohio, Ohio State or Weber State.

Damon Lillard and CJ Mccollum destroy this B1G narrative. b2b has some expertise, but this was purely an opinion. The NBA draft has a lot of different moving parts, you have the camps like Portsmouth and Chicago, and then you have the workouts, where teams invite three or four point guards and they go at it, that is how Norris Cole rose so high. The scouts rarely miss people.
Last Edited: 4/24/2017 4:42:33 PM by allen
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GoCats105
4/24/2017 4:09 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
That said, Jaaron would be a fool not to consider going to one of those schools because scouts and media are dumber than rocks that they can't get on Route 33 to find a kid. The second I saw Jaaron light up Bean Willis and Stevie in practice when he sat out his transfer year was all I needed to know about how good the kid was. So if he does leave, and I hope to god he doesn't, he is going to light up the Big Ten and be in the running for Player of the Year in those conferences and most likely have a better chance of getting drafted. In addition, a full ride to potentially start on a graduate degree

You've got an antiqued view on NBA scouting.

"Scouts and media are dumber than rocks"

I don't disagree with your statement. I disagree with the conclusion you're drawing from it. "Scouts" today are increasingly "analytically minded" guys rather than the traditional old-school "I've watched a lot of hoops" guys who won't hop in their car to drive down route 33. The new guys don't care where you played college hoops, because they can accurately factor strength of schedule into their metrics grading players. It's in the best interests of schools like Ohio State and Michigan to push the "exposure" narrative but it's nothing more than talk of a bygone era.

5 guys in this year's NBA All-Star game played at mid-major programs. With the exception of Paul Millsap, who went in the 2nd round, all of them were drafted in the Top 15 picks in the NBA Draft. 3/5 went in the Top 10.
Yes, there are more NBA guys from major schools, but that isn't because of exposure, that is because majors have more players who are of the elite NBA caliber.

Different sport, but wasn't Bill Belichick in Athens a month ago watching Tarell Basham? In 2017, if you are good, they're going to find you. The entire "exposure" narrative falls apart even MORE when you look at exactly what Antonio Campbell and Jaaron Simmons did the past two years. This is EXACTLY why you should declare for the draft as a Junior and then withdraw your name. By doing so, you get yourself into rooms with NBA executives and scouts making roster decisions. If you're good enough to enter the draft process as a Junior as a realistic prospect, they will run you through their computer models and watch your game tape whether you're at Ohio, Ohio State or Weber State.

Damon Lillard and CJ Mccollum destroy this B1G narrative. b2b has an expertise, but this was purely an opinion. The NBA draft has a lot of different moving parts, you have the camp like Portsmouth and Chicago, and then you have the workouts, where teams invite three or four point guards and they go at it, that is how Norris Cole rose so high. The scouts rarely miss people.
Really the entire NBA has rosters full of guys who came from smaller programs or programs that are not rich in basketball tradition or have a tradition that is long gone a.k.a. not elite. If you're good enough they'll find you.

Just look at the Warriors roster: Davidson, Vanderbilt, Belmont, Washington State, Nevada, UNLV (and not the good UNLV from the 90s).

Spurs roster: UNLV, San Diego State, St. Mary's, Houston, Washington USC

Speaking of the Spurs, nobody in their right mind thought Kawhi Leonard was a borderline MVP candidate in his days at San Diego State.

Rockets roster: Cal, Arkansas, Cal State Fullerton, Arizona State

There are very few rosters that are just filled with guys from elite programs. The Clippers are pretty astonishing to look at. And yet, they can't even get to the Conference Finals. Makes you wonder.

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/_/name/lac
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Buckeye to Bobcat
4/24/2017 4:48 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
That said, Jaaron would be a fool not to consider going to one of those schools because scouts and media are dumber than rocks that they can't get on Route 33 to find a kid. The second I saw Jaaron light up Bean Willis and Stevie in practice when he sat out his transfer year was all I needed to know about how good the kid was. So if he does leave, and I hope to god he doesn't, he is going to light up the Big Ten and be in the running for Player of the Year in those conferences and most likely have a better chance of getting drafted. In addition, a full ride to potentially start on a graduate degree

You've got an antiqued view on NBA scouting.

"Scouts and media are dumber than rocks"

I don't disagree with your statement. I disagree with the conclusion you're drawing from it. "Scouts" today are increasingly "analytically minded" guys rather than the traditional old-school "I've watched a lot of hoops" guys who won't hop in their car to drive down route 33. The new guys don't care where you played college hoops, because they can accurately factor strength of schedule into their metrics grading players. It's in the best interests of schools like Ohio State and Michigan to push the "exposure" narrative but it's nothing more than talk of a bygone era.

5 guys in this year's NBA All-Star game played at mid-major programs. With the exception of Paul Millsap, who went in the 2nd round, all of them were drafted in the Top 15 picks in the NBA Draft. 3/5 went in the Top 10.
Yes, there are more NBA guys from major schools, but that isn't because of exposure, that is because majors have more players who are of the elite NBA caliber.

Different sport, but wasn't Bill Belichick in Athens a month ago watching Tarell Basham? In 2017, if you are good, they're going to find you. The entire "exposure" narrative falls apart even MORE when you look at exactly what Antonio Campbell and Jaaron Simmons did the past two years. This is EXACTLY why you should declare for the draft as a Junior and then withdraw your name. By doing so, you get yourself into rooms with NBA executives and scouts making roster decisions. If you're good enough to enter the draft process as a Junior as a realistic prospect, they will run you through their computer models and watch your game tape whether you're at Ohio, Ohio State or Weber State.

Damon Lillard and CJ Mccollum destroy this B1G narrative. b2b has an expertise, but this was purely an opinion. The NBA draft has a lot of different moving parts, you have the camp like Portsmouth and Chicago, and then you have the workouts, where teams invite three or four point guards and they go at it, that is how Norris Cole rose so high. The scouts rarely miss people.
Really the entire NBA has rosters full of guys who came from smaller programs or programs that are not rich in basketball tradition or have a tradition that is long gone a.k.a. not elite. If you're good enough they'll find you.

Just look at the Warriors roster: Davidson, Vanderbilt, Belmont, Washington State, Nevada, UNLV (and not the good UNLV from the 90s).

Spurs roster: UNLV, San Diego State, St. Mary's, Houston, Washington USC

Speaking of the Spurs, nobody in their right mind thought Kawhi Leonard was a borderline MVP candidate in his days at San Diego State.

Rockets roster: Cal, Arkansas, Cal State Fullerton, Arizona State

There are very few rosters that are just filled with guys from elite programs. The Clippers are pretty astonishing to look at. And yet, they can't even get to the Conference Finals. Makes you wonder.

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/_/name/lac
Outside of Belmont and CSF, those are all schools from multi-bid leagues. Leagues that traditionally get 3+ teams into the dance and have better competition than the MAC. And sure, someone is going to counter with 90's MACtion, no one is disputing that the quality of ball then was pretty darn good.
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SaulBall
4/24/2017 5:00 PM
I'm not denying there aren't mid-major guys like Maurice Ndour who had 2nd round talent and ended up going undrafted, but I'm not convinced the "mid-major" or "lack of exposure" tag is really the cause for that.

The same year Ndour went undrafted, the 76ers took BG's Richaun Holmes in the 2nd round. Holmes was a MAC Power Forward just like Ndour, but he was drafted and Ndour wasn't. If anything, Ndour had significantly more buzz and press coverage heading into the draft than Holmes did. That isn't surprising since Ohio had the better team allowing Ndour to enter discussion for MAC poty while Holmes wasn't mentioned in that conversation as much. Ndour's story was also probably a factor in the media coverage as an international basketball journey from Senegal to Japan to New York to Ohio picking up 5 languages along the way probably sells more papers than Richaun Holmes JUCO experience in suburban Chicago. But the 76ers still took Holmes, and he had a phenomenal year in Philly this year. He appears to be a lock in that organization moving forward even more-so than Ndour does with the Knicks.

You look at DJ Cooper, who I still believe could make a phenomenal NBA player. He whooped plenty of quality competition in the NCAA Tournament, but obviously something about his build/style of play made NBA teams hesitant to take him.

Jaaron's body and style seem a little more comparable to NBA point guards, so I think he is very well positioned for the draft next year. There is 0% chance NBA teams aren't looking at him next year, no matter what school he is at. He's averaged nearly 16 points and 7 assists a game for us the last two seasons. He averaged 24.5 in the MAC Tournament for us this past year. If he scores like that next season at Ohio, it's going to be a matter of "how high" not "if."
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allen
4/24/2017 5:30 PM
It is all about what you can do, look at Lillard. if you perform in the MAC, you will get invited to thecamps and you will getinvited to privat workouts. Hopefully Jaaron gets some private workouts this year. the competition argument offered here is very flawed. NBA scouts love to see players in one on one situations, because most zones are illegal in the NBA. They sort this out at the camps and during private workouts. We have a lot of athletes go overseas and make money because we put them in ideal situations to flourish. We do need to make the dance. We do need to play some quality opponents. In the event that we don't the scouts will still find you like they found Ndour. DJ and Jaaron would take Aaron Craft's lunch.
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lovebobcat
4/24/2017 10:00 PM
brucecuth wrote:expand_more
I was to dumb to notice at the time, but at the Columbus coaches caravan stop, Saul never mentioned Simmons. A year ago, he spent half his time talking about him...
Saul never mentioned him at the Cincy caravan stop either. And I think (worry) that it's more than a coincidence.
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Mike Coleman
4/24/2017 10:48 PM
On the team's Facebook page, they just replaced the cover photo of Simmons with one of Block.
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perimeterpost
4/24/2017 10:58 PM
as I was leaving a comment this popped up on Twitter.

Simmons is a WOLVERINE.

http://www.athensmessenger.com/sports/ohiouniversity/simm...
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ohio9704
4/24/2017 11:04 PM
Always felt we were a mid-major program, feel very low major tonight.
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BillyTheCat
4/24/2017 11:19 PM
Well there is another failed prediction by Allen. Shocked.
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LuckySparrow
4/24/2017 11:20 PM
Devastating news.
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ohio9704
4/24/2017 11:22 PM
For you folks who have been giving him the OK for this move, sorry I disagree. He needed a landing spot after Houston and we offered one. We put the ball in his hands and gave him his opportunity. Teams/Programs are families, you dont do this to one that offered you a life line when you needed one. Loyalty and trust are words that we require in education, that hasnt been reciprocated by this young adult. A common theme in education/America, not just college athletics. As a coach, an educator, sorry I cant just sign off on something like this because it is the norm and convenient.
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The Optimist
4/24/2017 11:26 PM
Woof.
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Bobcat61
4/24/2017 11:39 PM
My favorite BB teams this next season

1 The Bobcats

2 Who ever is playing michigan
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Deciduous Forest Cat
4/24/2017 11:49 PM
Dead to me.
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perimeterpost
4/25/2017 12:01 AM
here's the comment I was about to make before the news came in-

- Gary Trent was in Athens for 3 years and didn't earn his degree, but there's no denying he is viewed by the fans as a Bobcat through and through.

- Maurice Ndour was only in Athens for two years and earned his degree, he is also seen as a Bobcat, now and forever.


- but what about Jaaron? Simmons was in Athens for 3 years (like Trent), played for 2 seasons (like Ndour) and earned his degree (like Ndour) but because he didn't start here or finish here how do you think he will be viewed over time? 5 years from now will he be "former Bobcat Jaaron Simmons" or will he be "former Wolverine Jaaron Simmons"? How will you view him, how will the average fan view him, and how will Jaaron view himself?
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bornacatfan
4/25/2017 12:07 AM
perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
as I was leaving a comment this popped up on Twitter.

Simmons is a WOLVERINE.

http://www.athensmessenger.com/sports/ohiouniversity/simm...
Wondered how long that would take. Good catch
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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
4/25/2017 12:08 AM
perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
here's the comment I was about to make before the news came in-

- Gary Trent was in Athens for 3 years and didn't earn his degree, but there's no denying he is viewed by the fans as a Bobcat through and through.

- Maurice Ndour was only in Athens for two years and earned his degree, he is also seen as a Bobcat, now and forever.


- but what about Jaaron? Simmons was in Athens for 3 years (like Trent), played for 2 seasons (like Ndour) and earned his degree (like Ndour) but because he didn't start here or finish here how do you think he will be viewed over time? 5 years from now will he be "former Bobcat Jaaron Simmons" or will he be "former Wolverine Jaaron Simmons"? How will you view him, how will the average fan view him, and how will Jaaron view himself?
Does anyone view Russell Wilson as a former NC State QB?
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allen
4/25/2017 12:23 AM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Dead to me.
+1
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allen
4/25/2017 12:26 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Well there is another failed prediction by Allen. Shocked.
I made no prediction. I told you I am not worthy of being stalked. Ask your imaginary agent friend? Let's have peace, i regret not letting you wash my car.
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allen
4/25/2017 12:27 AM
ohio9704 wrote:expand_more
For you folks who have been giving him the OK for this move, sorry I disagree. He needed a landing spot after Houston and we offered one. We put the ball in his hands and gave him his opportunity. Teams/Programs are families, you dont do this to one that offered you a life line when you needed one. Loyalty and trust are words that we require in education, that hasnt been reciprocated by this young adult. A common theme in education/America, not just college athletics. As a coach, an educator, sorry I cant just sign off on something like this because it is the norm and convenient.
+1, he let us down.
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